Michigan CCW Law=stupid

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"Mental illness" means a substantial disorder of thought or mood that significantly impairs judgment, behavior, capacity to recognize reality, or ability to cope with the ordinary demands of life, and includes, but is not limited to, clinical depression.
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OCD absolutely does NOT qualify under that definition.

Neither does Asperger's for that matter, and I'm a mild case. (I can make a good argument that Asperger's isn't a "defect" or "handicap" at all unless it's really severe. In most cases it's just a "difference". Downsides include a slightly "off" fashion sense, tendency to be a loner, etc. Upsides include improved ability to both concentrate on a problem and swallow large amounts of information. Silicon Valley was friggin' *built* by Aspergers, Bill Gates has a pretty obviously heavy case, etc.

I would just answer "no" if that's the definition, either with my Asperger's or your OCD.
 
But let me ask you this;If I was some sort of a nut,why would I respect the law anyway,
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That, in a nutshell, is the stupidity of virtually all gun laws....




I feel for you brother. OCD disqualifying you from a carry permit is stupid beyond words. It almost seems like such a "condition" might make you safer.
 
Mental illness and respect for the law are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
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I know this is true and agree.Maybe 1% of violent crimes or suicides come back later to the person being "mentally ill",then the media puts a stereotype in the public's head about the "mentally ill",but take no second thought that the other 99% of violent crimes are done by sane people.(note;my percentages are not scientific,just an exaggerated estimate,but you know what I mean)
 
I'm not 100% sure I should still be getting them.I had a doctor diognose me with schitzophrenia years ago,but after feeling something isnt right,I went to another doctor who ruled that out alltogether,but said I have ocd.I did a written review being specific to my daily habits and sent it into the SSA,and they just kept my benefits.I'm sure they would try to cut me if I said I feel fine and it's only ocd.But they haven't made a move,and we aint rich over here,so i'm not going to bring it up
 
"Schitzophrenia"..........!!!

Now, that is different isn't it? Glad you got that one removed. (However, you are still receivinig SSA? )

Without a statement indicating you are better now, and getting off of SSA for schitzophrenia, I don't think you have a chance based on my readings of the statute.

But you should give Jim Simmons a call on this one IMHO.

ETA: I would guess Jim would say if you are receiving SSA for schitzophrenia you are ineligible for a CPL.
 
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when I was 16,my doctor diagnosed me with schitzophrenia,then when I was 19,he urged me to get SSI benefits.I never really researched schitzophrenia to know I didn't have it,but suffered for years with OCD and took my doctors' word that I had schitzophrenia.Then 12 years after my diagnosis,I find out by a better doctor that all I have is OCD and some anxiety problems,he medicated me for it and I feel better.I just haven't got around to tell the government to stop paying me,it's kind of hard to do,especially when all i had to take was a questionairre and make a statement of how I felt,and they kept me on.But,my point is,OCD is not a dementia type illness,it is an anxiety issue,and that in the end shouldn't stop me from getting a carry permit if i'm determined enough
 
pendennis,do you think it is worth pursuing?I am just concerned about question 16 of the app. I would have to truthfull check yes to mental illness wouldn't I?I'm not sure I would feel right checking no,unless legally i'm not mentally ill.I've never been ordered by the law to be checked out,exept for a child custody case where I was ordered to be evaluated,which I never did because another custody settlement was arranged before I had to go,so I never went.Iv'e never been committed,and why would I,it's only OCD.I don't absolutely have to get a cpl ccw or whatever it is called,but just feeling like I can't upsets me,and especially because the law let me buy the guns,and I feel like the law is keeping me from using them to protect myself
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Sam, I'm not a lawyer, and I do not dispense legal advice of any type. With that stated, the Michigan Compiled Acts has an entire section on mental health laws. In part, it says:

"(g) "Mental illness" means a substantial disorder of thought or mood that significantly impairs judgment, behavior, capacity to recognize reality, or ability to cope with the ordinary demands of life."

Here's the link. You should read the entire passage.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(rj2bbc552hj0bpq40zjbhbn0))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-330-1400
 
I just haven't got around to tell the government to stop paying me,it's kind of hard to do,especially when all i had to take was a questionairre and make a statement of how I felt,and they kept me on.
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Well, hey, thanks for defrauding me and everyone else who pays his/her taxes just so you can take monies from us you aren't entitled to. Thanks a lot!
 
My doctor says OCD is dibilitating just like worse mental illnesses,so my disibility claim isn't fraud,But I think its going overboard to say I shouldnt be able to carry,when My illness isnt dementia related.Its the same to me as if they said someone in a wheelchair cant carry either.
 
"(g) "Mental illness" means a substantial disorder of thought or mood that significantly impairs judgment, behavior, capacity to recognize reality, or ability to cope with the ordinary demands of life."
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I have no problem with recognizing reality,or impaired judgement,my behavior is a little off in a good way and the ordinary demands of life are harder,but I don't see why that would impair me from carrying.I have a family and little one to protect just like the rest of us
 
Sorry, Ninjatoth, but if you're currently receiving SSA disability benefits, I'd say that changes things quite a bit... if you're currently impaired enough to need them, I'd think that might well be a significant enough level of impairment to disqualify you from getting a permit to carry. (But -- I'll say it again -- it's a question for a lawyer.)

If you're not impaired enough to need them any more, i.e. you're able to hold a job, then you need to think about getting one, and letting the SSA know that. Continuing to receive a benefit you no longer need makes you look a bit, um, ethically challenged, not to mention any possible illegality in terms of fraud and such; if your goal in this thread is to get sympathy from the membership, I think there may not be much more to be had.

ninjatoth said:
Its the same to me as if they said someone in a wheelchair cant carry either.
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Bad analogy. The issue isn't disability as such, it's whether the specific type of disability creates an unacceptable level of risk. If someone who uses a wheelchair can meet the physical requirements for handling a gun safely, there's no additional risk. Unfortunately, risk is harder to measure when one is dealing with someone's mental or emotional state, which is why the law errs on the side of caution in that case.

ninjatoth said:
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"(g) "Mental illness" means a substantial disorder of thought or mood that significantly impairs judgment, behavior, capacity to recognize reality, or ability to cope with the ordinary demands of life."
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Holding a job is one of the ordinary demands of life, pretty much, and if your OCD keeps you from holding one, then... yeah... that seems to fit the definition of mental illness you just quoted.

I think the technical term for what you're trying to do here is "eating your cake and having it." So sorry, but you probably can't have it both ways.
 
Sorry, Ninjatoth, but if you're currently receiving SSA disability benefits, I'd say that changes things quite a bit... if you're currently impaired enough to need them, I'd think that might well be a significant enough level of impairment to disqualify you from getting a permit to carry. (But -- I'll say it again -- it's a question for a lawyer.)
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you are a perfect example of the stereotyping that I explained earlier.So,anyone with a physical disability should not carry guns ever?All physical disability is exactly the same right?If you say no,then you contradict everything.Because all mental illness is not the same either!But the government makes no distinction,just ALL.I want a CCW class which is a huge part safety class,but i'm not allowed,even though i'm allowed the right to purchase the gun.What sense does that make?
 
Ninja, you have to call Jim Simmons and maybe pay for his advice. Give him a call for pete's sake.

Your lack of doing so indicates to me........... well I'm just joking........well not entirely.........:p
 
Ninjatoth, you haven't bothered to read my post above very carefully, or you'd have seen, first, that I took some trouble to differentiate types of disability:
Vanya said:
The issue isn't disability as such, it's whether the specific type of disability creates an unacceptable level of risk.
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And second, you might have noticed that I expressed no personal opinion about whether you should or shouldn't be able to get a permit to carry based on your particular diagnosis. I said that if you're disabled enough to need SSA benefits (unable to hold a job), that seemed to fit the definition of a disqualifying mental illness which you quoted. I also said that if you're not that disabled, it's ethically and legally questionable to continue to receive benefits, and that people's sympathy for your situation might be limited if that's the case.

And now I've said those things again, and have nothing to add but to wish you well and hope that you will get legal advice, from an actual lawyer, about your case.
 
who is jim simmons?No matter how upset I seem to be,I really don't think there is a way around michigan concealed permit Q#16.You must answer all the questions with a no to be eligible,even if I wasn't on disability,I am still ineligible if I am being honest.I don't want to get it by lying.I will have to live without until the laws change,which will probably be never
 
I guess I just don't understand what you are saying.If someone,for any reason can't hold a job,that they can't possibly be able to get a concealed pistol permit,right?I guess the wheelchair analogy is right then,unless you are confessing to having stereotypes about mental illness
 
who is jim simmons?No matter how upset I seem to be,I really don't think there is a way around michigan concealed permit Q#16.You must answer all the questions with a no to be eligible,even if I wasn't on disability,I am still ineligible if I am being honest.I don't want to get it by lying.I will have to live without until the laws change,which will probably be never
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Go to post number 15 in this thread.

Here's his contact info.:

Jim Simmons
Law Offices of James T. Simmons, P.C.
45700 Village Boulevard
Shelby Township, Michigan, 48315
(586) 566-1900
(586) 532-4110 fax
jtsimmons@jtsimmons.com
 
I know quite a few people that wash there hands very often.It is suggested by my physician and my childrens pediatrician.I guess one could go overboard but whats the harm other then dish pan hands and IMO it's flat out wrong and a crock of S**t.
 
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