Michael Brown not looking so bad now

[DonR101395]

Don, I feel your view on this is hardly universal. Do you believe (as you seem to indicate) that having insurance to cover yourself is OK but those who don't carry insurance or less insurance than you should be harangued for it? Should those less fortunate than yourself be excluded from the insurance club? Again, that's a touch too Practical Darwinistic for my taste.

What I indicated was that you are responsible for yourself or at least should be. Part of financial responsibility is is being able to afford your lifestyle. Being able to afford something is more than just being able to buy it. What good is a 52" plasma t.v. that you can afford to buy, but can't afford to pay your electric bill? The same goes for insurance. What good is a house and car if you can't afford to insure it to guarentee you won't have a total loss?

It's akin to chiding someone for falling overboard instead of throwing them the lifesaver at your elbow. Or complaining that part of your vacation costs go to buy lifeboats for the cruiseship. I mean, really, why should I have to pay for a lifeboat for all those down in steerage. Afterall, I know how to swim and I brought my own lifevest.... [/sarcasm]

Not even close. You're compairing non-predictable accidents to a predicted natural disaster. But, if they were told to stay away from the edge and ignored the warning, I would throw them a ring so I could pull them in and let them know what an idiot they were for ignoring the warning. If they drown before they could be rescued, well as the quote i read the other day said "Stupidity should hurt." Life boats are mandated by law. Even if they weren't if you were told to bring your own and you didn't, I would say, yes you're an idiot and darwin will cure your problems. I would probalby say that if you got on a cruise ship knowing they had no life boats available you need a date with darwin.

FEMA exists to help. It doesn't discriminate based upon wealth just need. Those who can afford to help themselves get less assistance than those who have no other resources. Complaining that you have to subsidize the less fortunate is just whining. Consider yourself LUCKY that you are one contributing for the aid instead of receiving it.
Rob P. is offline Report Bad Post

I'm not complaining or whining about helping those less fortunate. I'm bitching about helping those who were too stupid or lazy to help themselves by leaving an area that had a cat 5 hurricane predicted to hit there area. I wouldn't be complaining had they simply evacuated. It's quite possible that the many of the trailers could have been set up and used where they are currently stored in Arkansas had people evacuated to Arkansas or they could have moved them to Texas as an interim fix until their area was ready to move back into. I consider myself very fortunate that I was blessed with parents who taught me to get out of the rain and instilled a sense of personal responsibility instead of a if I blame others they are required to take care of me attitude.

 

[Rimrock]

AHHH, handouts and socialism. That was part of New Orleans problem, the elephant in the room.
__________________

No, no just part of that faith based initiative of which some of the compassionate conservatives or so fond.
Children from CA and other well off places trying to help their not so well off counter parts on the Gulf Coast are now at risk to be labeled Socialist.
Can you feel it....can you feel the love in this room?

Rimrock

 

[Rivers]

Children in Kalifornia would do well to pick better parents.

 

[Fal 4 Me]

I'm bitching about helping those who were too stupid or lazy to help themselves by leaving an area that had a cat 5 hurricane predicted to hit there area.

I don't disagree that some of the storm victims refused to evacuate, but to assume that all of them could evacuate and didn't is just denying reality. Some of those in New Orleans had no car or other means to evacuate. And remember how jammed up the highways were before the storm hit. Even if the thousands left in New Orleans had vehicles to evacuate how many would've been stuck on the roads when the storm did hit?

There is plenty of blame to go around. To ignore the federal government's mistakes and place all blame on the local government and people is just as wrong as to ignore the mistakes of the locals and place all blame on the Federal government.

 

[Wildcard]

Some of those in New Orleans had no car or other means to evacuate.

Or the smarts to get out of the way of a CAT 5 storm. If you live on the Gulf Coast, you need a evac plan, its that simple. If you dont have a car, use your feet.

 

[DonR101395]

Fal,
I know what you are saying and I never took all the "blame" from the feds. I do put more "blame" on the local and state govt as well as the residents. You're correct that not everyone has cars, but there were alot of buses not utilized that were lost to flood damage. I've been through four hurricanes and the evacuating sucks, the roads are clogged, gas is short, tempers are short, but it's a fact of life if you live on the gulf coast. Hurricane season is from June to November it's been that way for the last 100 years and will continue for the next 100, so if you live here you better have an evac plan.
For example during the season we have:

5 x 5 gallon gas cans full with fuel stabilizor added
1 generator
30 gallons of drinking water
1 water purifier (not just a filter)
MRE's x 2 cases
2 weeks worth of canned goods (tuna, veggies, dog and cat food)
coleman fuel x 2 gal.
lantern with 4 spare mantles
candles x 12
flashlight batteries x 48
big boxes stick matches in waterproof bag x 2
all important document in lock box x 1
internet directions to evac point

When they announce a hurricane in the gulf we immediately fill our cars with gas because it will be short within 1-2 days. When they predict it will hit our area we board the house and secure anything in the yard we don't want to lose and pack a travel bag for 5 days. When they give a mandatory evacuation order they give a time that everyone must be out no later than, we take that time subtract 12 hours and that is our departure time. They typically announce at noon and the no later than time is between noon and 6p.m. the next day. We never set our departure time later than 3a.m. so we can avoid the procrastinators and road ragers which are typically one in the same, but not always. One to two hours before departure we load our travel bags, cooler with sandwiches and drinks, two of the full gas cans, lock box, pet food, firearms that would be difficult to replace, 1 dog, 2 cats, make one last check on the house and depart. The last two hurricanes we were at our evac point 10 hours away watching the clogged highways on the news.
When we are able to return we refill the two gas cans if needed because gas will be short the closer you get to home, load everything we brought and depart for home. When arrive at home we have our other car full of gas, and 15 gallon of emergency gas available, two weeks of food in cans.
If we are unable to return because it was destroyed, we have all of our important documents, my wife stays at my moms and when able I return to take care of any insurance paperwork needed and then wait until it's sorted out. It's a simple plan that works. My wife has executed it twice while I was deployed and we've done it together twice.

 

[Rimrock]

Children in Kalifornia would do well to pick better parents.

Last time I checked CA is the 8th largest economy in the world. Doing quite well and providing lots of federal income tax revenue to help those places in the country which produce so much less. The Christian work ethic is alive and well here and it's our pleasure! Neocons here think we should abandon other states which produce little or less by way of goods and services but that's just wrong!

Rimrock

 

[johnbt]

Only 8th? But counting the undocumented residents don't you have 20% of the U.S. population? Shouldn't you be producing a little more with all those people?



John

 

[Rivers]

Typically confused kalifornian! "Christian work ethic...." gimme a break! How "Christian" are your two U.S. Senators? How "Christian" are your gun laws?

 

[Rimrock]

Orig posted by Rivers

Typically confused kalifornian! "Christian work ethic...." gimme a break! How "Christian" are your two U.S. Senators? How "Christian" are your gun laws?

I know them both. Here in Ca we actually don't have to be Christian to hold office. I believe one is Jewish. Apparently that doesn't meet with your approval. But the other is "Christian"... I believe so anyway!...Though I was referring to the "Christian ethic of work" and not religious affiliation. Check it out..... it's in most of our text books. You sound a little scary! Christian gun laws? Isn't that part of that Ala. stuff from the 20's and 30's....thought those folks were out of business.....maybe not! I don't know!
But listen, if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy to hold me responsible for CA gun laws well I've got wide shoulders. Just what the gun community needed...some more bashing and alienating of Non neocons for the betterment of our cause. You know without some broader based newbies our objective is in real jeopardy. See the neocons really haven't been "gittin' er done!"

orig posted by johnbt

Only 8th? But counting the undocumented residents don't you have 20% of the U.S. population? Shouldn't you be producing a little more with all those people?

johnbt
We do pretty well at #8 dispite Arnold and GWB's inability and unwillingness to enforce our borders and laws!
Of course as of Ash Wednesday the Catholic Church has come out in favor of illegals so......who knows!

Rimrock

 

[Rivers]

As a matter of fact, Jews do meet my approval, and, in my experience, show a much higher work ethic than do Christians, as a class of Americans.

You're fortunate, in that they're both Jews. Oh, they're also both urban, liberal, extremely anti-gun Jews, which, of course, makes their work ethic moot with me.

 

[Rimrock]

Oh, they're also both urban, liberal, extremely anti-gun Jews, which, of course, makes their work ethic moot with me.

I never really knew nor am I concerned with their belief system. However your concern and knowledge is be revealing. Is "anti gun Jew" a new demonized catagory or did you forget a comma. None of the magic words you've chosen are defined as unlawful acts yet...at least in CA.
Lots of Americans are urban.... seems OK. Lot's are Jewish...seems OK to all but some bigots. More Liberal than you is OK. So let's look at "anti gun"
Not OK! You can set up targets with their likeness and "put a hola in the ayatollah" but that rush doesn't last long and is rather conterproductive.
You can paint everyone from a particular state with the same brush but that will only result in further allienating the potential jury pool. So what's a mother to do?
Did you ever consider that these representatives are not leading but following? They, like every politician understands the political breeze. Unfortunately for us ,in many states the voters are anti gun. Did DYFY slip something into their Fresca to make them nuts? Not likely. This is a cultural dynamic. There is an abundance of ignorance on both ends of the spectrum. A gun to someone educated about guns, the outings and subsequent fond memories which are associated has a totally different meaning to someone void of those great experiences. Ignorance and deprivation are the enemy not some "wind sock" known as your representative.
Recently a local TV News outlet in SF did very straight up report on the dwindling activity of hunting and shooting. They had all the numbers and incidents. Somewhere in the report it became apparent these guys were doing a report on our culture and using shooting to tell the story. It was an outstanding piece. The final "bite" in the report was a typical soccer mom from BERKELEY She had recently been exposed to a hunt and the resulting game. She was absolutely overwhelmed by the experience and couldn't wait for next year's hunt. Her regret was she had waited so long to actually take the plunge.
Stories like this could become common place if we elliminate the "us & them" mentality of broad brushing huge groups of potential friends and supporters.
If we as shooting enthusiasts continue on this line we're in trouble.
We're selling one of the greatest activitities in American culture. That's the easiest sell ever folks! The opposition has it's broad brush which depicts us as big dumb SOB's with green teeth! (Charlie Daniels) How many of your shooting buddys does this describe? OK maybe a couple!
My point is the best way to turn this around is to put our best foot forward and demonstrate the true joys of shooting and everything that is gained for a lifetime. I'll continue to introduce shooting to all possible. It's Americana! Unless I see a "do not solicit sign" I'm spreadin' the word like a prairie preacher!
We can must and will change the perception. Do it for us and do it for them!

Rimrock

 

[DonR101395]

The opposition has it's broad brush which depicts us as big dumb SOB's with green teeth! (Charlie Daniels) How many of your shooting buddys does this describe? OK maybe a couple!

Kinda like the stereotypical Californian male. You know he plays both pitcher and catcher, he's too busy figuring out which purse matches his shoes to see that he's in a state that doesn't have the same freedoms afforded most of the rest of the country. Sound like some of your shooting buddies Rimrock?


P.S. I like Charlie Daniels.

 

[Rimrock]

DonR101395

Kinda like the stereotypical Californian male. You know he plays both pitcher and catcher, he's too busy figuring out which purse matches his shoes to see that he's in a state that doesn't have the same freedoms afforded most of the rest of the country. Sound like some of your shooting buddies Rimrock?

Sadly you missed the point and caved in to personal attacks. Limited skills perhaps!
You're the guy the anti's use as the poster boy! You've made my point! Thanks!
We "real" pro gun folks have to fight ignorance from all sides!
Not all our enemies are from the left as you've so effectively demonstrated.
Some wise man here said something close to "we are all ambassadors of "shooting/guns" What does your post say to other about us?
Get well soon!


Rimrock

 

[Rivers]

My apologies, Rim: I was taught better manners than to enter into friendly "debate" with those not as gifted as I.

I don't think youse guise (is that how you spell it?) have green teeth, etc., just that, as a class of people, you elect lousy, liberal, airheaded, anti-gun pansy-lovers to represent you in D.C. (And you do have an inordinate number of sissies, per capita!)

I don't believe I referred to Kalifornia by name, but vaguely referred to "that sissy state on the west coast." Old saying out in the "red" states says, "hit dog hollers."

 

[DonR101395]

That was no more a personal attack on you than your post was a personal attack on Rivers. If you don't like it in kind, maybe you should shut your pie hole. Now that was a personal attack. If I get banned so be it, but I've read enough of your garbage the past week to fill me with sh#$ for a month. I tried to be nice and bow out and thought you might be man enough to do the same or at least pm me and talk about it in private, but you want to continue with your mindless drivel you sound like a damn politition yourself. This is my last post on this thread. If you need me don't call I'll be busy getting ready for the upcoming hurricane season.

 

[Rimrock]

orig posted by Rivers

Old saying out in the "red" states says, "hit dog hollers

red states v blue states. We still fightin' the Civil War?That sure has been healthy for this country!
We won't win the gun battle with only red states.
But at least you attempt some humor, I suppose.
My point was one side sees the other as big dummies while the other side sees them as out of touch space cases. Neither are accurate and only prepetuate the nonsense. We ultimately lose.

I tried to be nice and bow out and thought you might be man enough to do the same

I must have missed that post!

Posted by DonR101395

If I get banned so be it, but I've read enough of your garbage the past week to fill me with sh#$ for a month.

It's the internet not a cure for cancer! ...and it's OK for 66% of the population not to approve of your "GUY"....which has tweaked a few here terribly, huh? Remember there's a difference between attacking a public elected official and attacking a fellow poster. That distinction is critical to the well being of this great forum. I'm a guest here and as so will gladly follow my host's rules. Try it!
I've stated previously that the character, level of articulation and standard is higher here than any other site of it's kind. Obviously there are exceptions to that opinion which you so clearly exemplify. After being subjected to your uncontrollable outburst it prompts me to ask....
Are you even able to have guns or just ammo?

Medic!

Rimrock

 

[GHT]

Here be Socialists.

And a troll or two.


G

 

[Mike Irwin]

"The first time was 911 when he sat in a classroom while NY burned and thousands died."

You're right, the President should have immediately discerned that the incident was NOT an accident, as most people apparently initially thought, jumped to his feet, manned the special secret Mach 172 Superceptor aircraft carried by Air Force 1, and used his Satanic powers to fold space so that he could travel the nearly 2,000 miles between Florida and New York and located and immediately bring down the other hijacked aircraft.

All in about 8 minutes between when Bush learned of the first plane hitting the North Tower at 8:46 a.m., and the plane hitting the South Tower at 9:02 a.m. (According to some sources, Bush found out about the first aircraft hitting the North Tower between 7 and 8 minutes AFTER it happened).

Bush was sitting in the classroom with the kids when he was informed of the SECOND plane hitting the SECOND tower. Andrew Card informed the President of this at approximately 9:05 a.m.

At that point, how does Bush do anything to save the thousands of people whose lives are already over, but they just don't know it?

Hop into the Bushcopter and rotor his way to NYC, land on the roofs of both buildings, and carry them all to safety?

Maybe he should have called for military fighters to scramble to intercept the hijacked aircraft?

Uhm... That had already been done when first report of a hijacking was received, apparently even BEFORE Bush heard about the first plane hitting the North Tower. The first interceptors were scrambling at roughly 8:52 a.m.

So tell us, Rob. You're the President. You're following the SAME timeline. What do YOU do to save thousands of lives?

Use your psychic powers to convince the hijackers of the errors of their ways and to land peacably in Newark?

What a load of crap.

 

[OuTcAsT]

+1 Mike Irwin. As far as the "Victims" of Katrina, I feel that a lack of response by the Mayor, the State, and even each individual who stayed there KNOWING that a cat 5 storm was coming, contributed to their own demise. the lack of a vehicle is not an excuse ( I would steal one if I had to ) If you are not responsible enough to TRY and help yourself then you are probably right where you should be.