Michael Brown not looking so bad now

9mmsnoopy

New member
with the release of the videotaped conference that took place the day before katrina hit. seems to me like this guy and several others were trying to warn and prepare for the government for what was coming and bush inc. had no interest. how can bush have sat there and not asked a single question? did he even care?

then a couple of days after the devastation his nose got bigger when he said that nobody anticipated so much destruction and the failure of the levees in new orleans. oh really?

this guy is arrogant,smarmy and doesnt have a clue.
 
I find it interesting that GWB has been caught off guard TWICE now. Both times on camera and totally unprepared. Even though he was "briefed" on the situation both time he stood/sat and did NOTHING.

The first time was 911 when he sat in a classroom while NY burned and thousands died. The second time was when Katrina hit NOLA and many more thousands died.

It's amazing that someone so "informed" as he is supposed to be is so dumbfounded whenever something happens. Perhaps it's not that he's dumbfounded but rather that he's just dumb?
 
You're absolutly right Rob. He should have done what Bill was doing for his eight years and stayed in the white house fondling interns. I guess he gave a city, a mayor, and a governor too much credit and thought they could get out of a city that had a weeks warning that it was going to be hit with a hurricane. Little did he know they were too dumb to figure out how a bus and interstate system works.
 
Clintons philandering with skanks had no effect on anyone but his family and the skanks, bushes stupidity affects us all.
 
He should have done what Bill was doing for his eight years and stayed in the white house fondling interns

YAWWWNNN!

How about addressing the issue instead of beating the "At least he's better than Clinton" drum.

Please explain his inaction on both 911 and Katrina after he was apprised of the events. On 911 it took a week before he got his act together. Today, it's been 6 MONTHS after Katrina and he STILL hasn't figured out how to get trailers to flood victims, trash off the streets, electricity restored, water restored, and the levees repaired instead of held together with baling wire and bubble gum.

WE paid taxes to the fed gov't so that in the event of a disaster, we'd have help available. That help was supposed to be FEMA which moves at the direction of the President.

All that tax money was wasted because FEMA wasn't ordered to move. GWB is at fault for that and that is what the videos show. Now, 6 months later he STILL hasn't gotten off the stump and even more tax dollars are being wasted.

And please don't sing the "It's all Nagin and Blanco's fault" song. FEMA failed us too and is owed some of the blame.
 
I find it interesting that GWB has been caught off guard TWICE now. Both times on camera and totally unprepared. Even though he was "briefed" on the situation both time he stood/sat and did NOTHING.

The first time was 911 when he sat in a classroom while NY burned and thousands died. The second time was when Katrina hit NOLA and many more thousands died.

It's amazing that someone so "informed" as he is supposed to be is so dumbfounded whenever something happens. Perhaps it's not that he's dumbfounded but rather that he's just dumb?
Rob, your absolutely right (correct)! The "dumb" is well "founded!"

You're absolutly right Rob. He should have done what Bill was doing for his eight years and stayed in the white house fondling interns. I guess he gave a city, a mayor, and a governor too much credit and thought they could get out of a city that had a weeks warning that it was going to be hit with a hurricane. Little did he know they were too dumb to figure out how a bus and interstate system works.
What Bill was doing to an intern, Bush is doing to us daily!:eek: :eek: :barf:
Some don't comprehend how poor,helpless and hopeless some Americans are. They can't just jump in the ol SUV and head North. Look at the new poverty numbers under "His Enema" I still think one of the most revealing sound bites on this Bush clan was when mama bush said (paraphrased) "These folks didn't have anything anyway so the Astrodome's working out quite well for them":eek: :eek: :eek: Babs, last call for the train leaving for hell! C'mon, hurry your double wide up...weez leavin'!
Incident after incident shows they're so detached from real Americans!

Unfortunately there are some who will go down with the ship rather than to work to fix it....My country right or wrong! Dangerous stuff!

Rimrock
 
Don't you just wish to go back to a time when all you worried about was your own neighborhoods well-being. A time when the federal govt only regulated international trade and interstate commerce. What ever happened to the State? Now I am proud as anyone to be an American but it gets really annoying when one state is dependant upon all the rest to pay for everything. We focus too much on the national stage when our focus should be on our state and local levels. This is how freedom is lost.
When we only look to the national level we forget about what is happening in our own backyard and the next thing we know San Francisco has banned guns, Alabama has banned Jesus, "Katrina" took away our rights (out of necessity:rolleyes: ), and we were fighting about the buldge in the back of W's jacket. If we just took back control of our states (at teh polls) then I think things would improve immensly, the other key is to get involved at least on a local level. How many state legislators do you think read the same web forums you do or go with their buddies to a range on a saturday? None that I know. Eitherway I think the reason why things seems so divided and sometimes confusing is becasue we keep looking at the mountains in the distance instead of watching for pot-holes and trip-stones at our own feet.

Rant done.:)
 
Posted orig by jericho9mm
When we only look to the national level we forget about what is happening in our own backyard and the next thing we know San Francisco has banned guns, Alabama has banned Jesus, "Katrina" took away our rights (out of necessity ), and we were fighting about the buldge in the back of W's jacket.

Seriously, I feel your pain! Unfortunately the genie is forever out of the bottle in regards to local v national stages.
Norman Rockwell's gone!
Most kids no longer have only fair skin, freakles and strawberry blond hair. We've evolved into something quite different as a society from only 30 years ago. Hang on, the next 20 will surely be culture shock for some. I got a theory...every time we behave badly as a society like engaging in unnecessay wars etc, we impune our own integrity as individuals and suffer for generations with societal ills.
Communities continue to have autonomy it's just every action in every small town now is instant news around the planet. If the citizens of SF want to ban handguns in their juristiction well it's majority rules I suppose. As to Jesus being banned in Alabama I don't think that's quite what happened. I think Jesus knew the value of the separation of church and state. He's had some bad experiences with Theocracies and those who would misuse his name.
But your point is well taken as it relates to past and future.

Rimrock
 
On 911 it took a week before he got his act together.

Wrong, he had troops in Central Asia on Sept 11 coordinating with Uzbekistan for K2 (not the mountain) he had troops deployed within 48 hours. There were troops evacuating injured on Sept 11. As much as you would like to think you could have acted faster or anyone else could acted quicker IMO it wasn't going to happen.

Today, it's been 6 MONTHS after Katrina and he STILL hasn't figured out how to get trailers to flood victims, trash off the streets, electricity restored, water restored, and the levees repaired instead of held together with baling wire and bubble gum.

How about Nagin and Blanco clean the streets, people can come and finish fixing the rest of the problems. The trailer are available all they had to do was use those buses to move people to them. You see, natural disasters displace people. Sometimes it's temporary, sometimes it's permanant, but it's always longer than anyone would like.

WE paid taxes to the fed gov't so that in the event of a disaster, we'd have help available. That help was supposed to be FEMA which moves at the direction of the President.

All that tax money was wasted because FEMA wasn't ordered to move. GWB is at fault for that and that is what the videos show. Now, 6 months later he STILL hasn't gotten off the stump and even more tax dollars are being wasted.

And please don't sing the "It's all Nagin and Blanco's fault" song. FEMA failed us too and is owed some of the blame.


Yep, FEMA messed up and Bush messed up. He didn't declare martial law and remove people by force from the area prior to land fall. Of course if he had done this we would be arguing about how he is akin to Hitler or Saddam for removing people from their homes against their will.
I hate paying for Louisianna as much as anybody. I see it as a state problem. The same way I hate paying for million dollar houses in California because some idiot builds his house on a dirt cliff and can't figure out why it slides down the side when it rains.
There is enough blame for everyone involved, but IMO it still goes back to the residents, the local officials, the state officials and then the federal officials in that order. If you don't make an attempt to take care of yourself, you have no right to bitch when others don't take care of you.
 
orig post by DonR101395
The same way I hate paying for million dollar houses in California because some idiot builds his house on a dirt cliff and can't figure out why it slides down the side when it rains
No sweat! Our mansion is back far enough on the hill that it can never be a candidate for sliding while still preserving the breath taking view!
But in CA we're happy to help others from less economically viable areas of the country.
That's what good red, white and blue Americans do so well. However, I agree FEMA isn't what it once was under the leadership of Clinton and James Lee Witt. It was a model for the rest of the world. Sadly many of those good folks quit out of disgust for the current regime. Who would know better than the workers in the trench.:(

Rimrock
 
Please explain his inaction on both 911 and Katrina after he was apprised of the events. On 911 it took a week before he got his act together. Today, it's been 6 MONTHS after Katrina and he STILL hasn't figured out how to get trailers to flood victims, trash off the streets, electricity restored, water restored, and the levees repaired instead of held together with baling wire and bubble gum.

So...You're telling me that you expect THE GOVERNMENT to be a fast, efficient, lean, mean, well-oiled response machine?

Good luck with that.:rolleyes:
 
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/research/1282151.html

Originally printed on 9/11/01 in Popular Mechanics:

NEW ORLEANS IS SINKING
BY JIM WILSON
Published on: September 11, 2001

The surge of a Category 5 storm could put New Orleans under 18 ft. of water.

They don't bury the dead in New Orleans. The highest point in the city is only 6 ft. above sea level, which makes for watery graves. Fearful that rotting corpses caused epidemics, the city limited ground burials in 1830. Mausoleums built on soggy cemetery grounds became the final resting place for generations. Beyond providing a macabre tourist attraction, these "cities of the dead" serve as a reminder of the Big Easy's vulnerability to flooding. The reason water rushes into graves is because New Orleans sits atop a delta made of unconsolidated material that has washed down the Mississippi River.

Think of the city as a chin jutting out, waiting for a one-two punch from Mother Nature. The first blow comes from the sky. Hurricanes plying the Gulf of Mexico push massive domes of water (storm surges) ahead of their swirling winds. After the surges hit, the second blow strikes from below. The same swampy delta ground that necessitates above-ground burials leaves water from the storm surge with no place to go but up.

The fact that New Orleans has not already sunk is a matter of luck. If slightly different paths had been followed by Hurricanes Camille, which struck in August 1969, Andrew in August 1992 or George in September 1998, today we might need scuba gear to tour the French Quarter.

"In New Orleans, you never get above sea level, so you're always going to be isolated during a strong hurricane," says Kay Wilkins of the southeast Louisiana chapter of the American Red Cross.

During a strong hurricane, the city could be inundated with water blocking all streets in and out for days, leaving people stranded without electricity and access to clean drinking water. Many also could die because the city has few buildings that could withstand the sustained 96- to 100-mph winds and 6- to 8-ft. storm surges of a Category 2 hurricane. Moving to higher elevations would be just as dangerous as staying on low ground. Had Camille, a Category 5 storm, made landfall at New Orleans, instead of losing her punch before arriving, her winds would have blown twice as hard and her storm surge would have been three times as high.

Yet knowing all this, area residents have made their potential problem worse. "Over the past 30 years, the coastal region impacted by Camille has changed dramatically. Coastal erosion combined with soaring commercial and residential development in Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama have all combined to significantly increase the vulnerability of the area," says Sandy Ward Eslinger, of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration's Coastal Services Center in Charleston, S.C.

Early Warning
Emergency planners believe that it is a foregone conclusion that the Big Easy someday will be hit by a scouring storm surge. And, given the tremendous amount of coastal-area development, this watery "big one" will produce a staggering amount of damage. Yet, this doesn't necessarily mean that there will be a massive loss of lives.

The key is a new emergency warning system developed by Gregory Stone, a professor at Louisiana State University (LSU). It is called WAVCIS, which stands for wave-current surge information system. Within 30 minutes to an hour after raw data is collected from monitoring stations in the Gulf, an assessment of storm-surge damage would be available to emergency planners. Disaster relief agencies then would be able to mobilize resources--rescue personnel, the Red Cross, and so forth.

The $4.5 million WAVCIS project, which is now coming on line, will fill a major void in the Louisiana storm warning system, which was practically nonexistent compared to those of other Gulf Coast states. A system of 20 "weather buoys" along the U.S. coastline serves as a warning system for the Gulf of Mexico. However, the buoys are not distributed evenly and Louisiana falls into one of the gaps. From the mouth of the Mississippi River to the Louisiana-Texas border, there are no buoys. Only one buoy serves Louisiana, and it is 62 miles east of the Mississippi River and more than 300 miles to the south. So it's a bit like predicting the weather in Boston when your thermometer is in Philadelphia. The other buoys are near the coastlines of Texas, Mississippi, Alabama and Florida, and several hundred miles out into the Gulf.

Stable Platforms
One reason that WAVCIS will be more accurate is that its sensors are attached to offshore oil platforms. The older, floating buoys ride up and down with the waves and often can't give accurate pictures of wave heights and storm surges. Stable platforms mean that the sensors can be placed above and below the water, allowing more precise measurements. Data from each of the 13 stations, five of which are now on line, is transmitted to LSU, where it'll be interpreted and sent to emergency planners centers, via the Internet.

"With this new system [WAVCIS], we get to see real information on storm surge and we can feed that into our models and come up with real data," says Mike Brown, assistant director of the New Orleans emergency management office.

Because large areas would have to be evacuated, false alarms could be harmful to the economy. Stone sees it as a reasonable tradeoff.

"It's better to have that frustration than the loss of life. The potential loss of life in Louisiana could be catastrophic because there is just nowhere to go."
 
Wrong, he had troops in Central Asia on Sept 11 coordinating with Uzbekistan for K2 (not the mountain) he had troops deployed within 48 hours. There were troops evacuating injured on Sept 11.

Now, see there's a HUGE error in your fact reporting machine. It took almost SIX WEEKS before we sent troops into Afghanistan. 6 weeks, not 2 days as you'd like to have us believe. Yeah, there were "some" troops in the area but only because we have troops stationed throughout the world all the time. 6 weeks to move troops and 5 years to continue to hunt for the guy who did us dirty. Model of well prepared and informed efficiency that.

I don't believe that federal troops were used at ground zero. National guard yes, but not US military troops.

How about Nagin and Blanco clean the streets, people can come and finish fixing the rest of the problems.

Being done as we sit and complain about each others viewpoints. Most of the State level cleaning has been done already. They've done the demolition of the houses that couldn't be saved, moved the mountains of trash, and cleared the streets for access so that some people can return to their homes. Not it's not totally finished but at least they're working on it.

On the Federal side, those areas that FEMA said they'd be responsible for are still almost untouched. Federal level Red Tape prevents FEMA crews from working on private property without written authorization for EACH parcel. The state has given blanket authorization but FEMA insists that each parcel go though the entire authorization process individually. Sometimes even insisting that the property owner also authorize FEMA to clear the debris. As a result, the FEMA designated cleanup areas are still a mess and those areas are hindering the ability of everyone else to do their jobs.

If you don't make an attempt to take care of yourself, you have no right to bitch when others don't take care of you.

I find comments like this confusing. FEMA is a federally mandated disaster program funded by tax dollars. If you don't like the fact that tax dollars are being spent this way, why haven't you REPLACED your representatives with ones who won't vote for this type of stuff? The fact that our representatives are still in office sort of indicates that the majority of American's LIKE this sort of thing and are willing to fund it through taxation.

Grousing about the existence of tax supported programs and complaining that the programs should only be at the State level misses the point in a few different ways. First, you may not like the program but the majority does. Under our legislative process, majority rules and you should stop whining and get with the program and start supporting the program. Otherwise you're just trying your best to hinder the process instead of help. Belief isn't required, just participation.

Next, is the issue of the fact that FEMA was created to be a federally operated "insurance fund" for use in natural disasters to help people. We pay tax dollars into the program in the expectation that if a disaster happens the Feds WILL BE THERE to help. This is the purpose of the program and the reason for it's existence. Complaining that you shouldn't have to fund that sort of thing doesn't fly. Your representatives authorized the taxation of individuals (such as yourself) to fund the program so you can't opt yourself out. The game ain't played that way.

Since we pay into the program, the program is supposed to be there to support us when disaster strikes. When it fails to do what it's supposed to, then we have a right to complain about it. Belittling those who need help for being in a position to need help is a little too Practical Darwinistic for me.

And it's most likely that you don't subscribe to the idealogy anyway since you most likely have auto insurance, home owners insurance, life insurance and maybe even health and dental insurance. Should we all sit and chide you whenever you go to the doctor and use your health insurance coverage to help pay for the visit? If not, then why do you think you get to sit on the sidelines and make snide comments about those who need FEMA's help?

Ready on the Right - what is the point of your last post?
 
Now, see there's a HUGE error in your fact reporting machine. It took almost SIX WEEKS before we sent troops into Afghanistan. 6 weeks, not 2 days as you'd like to have us believe. Yeah, there were "some" troops in the area but only because we have troops stationed throughout the world all the time. 6 weeks to move troops and 5 years to continue to hunt for the guy who did us dirty. Model of well prepared and informed efficiency that.

I don't believe that federal troops were used at ground zero. National guard yes, but not US military troops.

Sorry but there is where your fact reporting machine is wrong. My old unit was in both DC and NYC. My boss was in Central Asia doing the coordinating. Until 911 there were no troops stationed in central asia. We had just began engaging with them a year prior. You can snow ball some people with your version of the facts and history, but I've lived it as well as many others on the forum


On the Federal side, those areas that FEMA said they'd be responsible for are still almost untouched. Federal level Red Tape prevents FEMA crews from working on private property without written authorization for EACH parcel. The state has given blanket authorization but FEMA insists that each parcel go though the entire authorization process individually. Sometimes even insisting that the property owner also authorize FEMA to clear the debris. As a result, the FEMA designated cleanup areas are still a mess and those areas are hindering the ability of everyone else to do their jobs..

It's called CYA. The first time they do something an owner doesn't want done even if it's needed, they will be sued. Last time I checked the state can't give authorization for a land owner unless they are taking control of the land.


I find comments like this confusing.

What's confusing? If you fail to help yourself in anyway you have no right to complain because someone else is not helping you quick enough. For example, you are told to evacuate an area and you don't evacuate; you also don't stock up on food and water, you have no way to guarentee your safety if you stay, but you stay anyway. You have done nothing to help yourself, so you have no right to complain if it takes 3 days or 3 years to rescue you. The only thing you have done is create a problem that would not have existed had you followed instructions and evacuated.


Since we pay into the program, the program is supposed to be there to support us when disaster strikes. When it fails to do what it's supposed to, then we have a right to complain about it. Belittling those who need help for being in a position to need help is a little too Practical Darwinistic for me.

And it's most likely that you don't subscribe to the idealogy anyway since you most likely have auto insurance, home owners insurance, life insurance and maybe even health and dental insurance.


There is where you went wrong. It's not a support program we have welfare, public aid whatever you would like to call it those are support programs. Insurance is a suppliment. Have you ever seen an insurance program with a zero deductable? FEMA would cost us 100 times more if it were a support program. You're correct, I have every insurance I feel is appropriate. You see I know I would be unable to replace everything I could possibly lose if disaster strikes. I have insurance to suppliment the portion I can not afford to replace. For example I have a $1000 deductable on my car because I know I can afford $1000 to repair/replace my car and my insurance suppliments that $1000 with another $27,000 that my car has for it's "blue book" value. Now on my other car I maintail only liability insurance. I paid $1500 for the car, but know that if I'm in a wreck and it my fault I can not pay for another persons $25,000 car, but I can afford to replace my $1500 beater. See my liability insurance suppliments what I can afford to pay in the event I'm at fault for an accident.

So we don't clog up the forum with more of our banter if you would like to pm me I will discuss it further. I feel like we've subjected these good people to enough bafoonery.
 
"Of course if he had done this we would be arguing about how he is akin to Hitler or Saddam for removing people from their homes against their will."

Do you get the feeling some people would be calling him names no matter what he did or when he did it?

Regarding FEMA, yes, it's there to help. Not to do everything, but to help. I know people in the trenches and there aren't nearly enough to do what many of you are expecting. About 2,500 full-time employees are in the Emergency Preparedness and Response Directorate and anyone who thinks that's enough to deal with a multi-state emergency isn't thinking clearly. Call your Congresscritters and tell them to appropriate more money - they're the ones in charge. FEMA helps states organize, they're not the 911 rescue squad. Hurricane knock out the power grid - call FEMA, they'll bring you a new one tomorrow. Hurricane knock out the water system - call FEMA, they're send a plumber over to your house. Is that what you expect?
 
Trivializing the duties of FEMA is inappropriate. FEMA exists to help in the event of a devastating natural disaster not to send a plumber to fix a backed up toilet.

Nor does FEMA exist to do everything instead using of State resources. It's a supplement to existing resources not a replacement for them.

Don, I feel your view on this is hardly universal. Do you believe (as you seem to indicate) that having insurance to cover yourself is OK but those who don't carry insurance or less insurance than you should be harangued for it? Should those less fortunate than yourself be excluded from the insurance club? Again, that's a touch too Practical Darwinistic for my taste.

It's akin to chiding someone for falling overboard instead of throwing them the lifesaver at your elbow. Or complaining that part of your vacation costs go to buy lifeboats for the cruiseship. I mean, really, why should I have to pay for a lifeboat for all those down in steerage. Afterall, I know how to swim and I brought my own lifevest.... [/sarcasm]

FEMA exists to help. It doesn't discriminate based upon wealth just need. Those who can afford to help themselves get less assistance than those who have no other resources. Complaining that you have to subsidize the less fortunate is just whining. Consider yourself LUCKY that you are one contributing for the aid instead of receiving it.
 
Yeah, another "bash the hell out of Bush" thread.

O.K., you are all right. Bush doesn't care. In fact, he was happy about what happened in N.O.

Did you know that Karl Rove planned Katrina (he controls the weather), and that Bush is disappointed that more people didn't die?

Perhaps it's not that he's dumbfounded but rather that he's just dumb?

:barf: Boooring.....
 
All this simpleminded blathering about Bush's reactions in the conference are off-base and simply feed into the Democrat's attack machine.

The simple fact is that it didn't matter if the Prez knew FOR SURE that the levees were going to be breached. What was he going to do, order the storm to cease and desist? Does EVERYBODY remember how the idiot mayor and equally-idiotic governor diddled around and didn't demand a MANDATORY evacuation, in the face of the Prez's requesting such?

The problems in N.O. are the problems with every other major U.S. city. It's a matter of Democratic demographics. It's just as simple as that.

If the Prez had pre-emptively sent in federal troops, you'd have heard more howling than a pack of coyotes, with the Dimokrats claiming that his only purpose for "taking over" was to make the Democrat mayor and governor look bad. If he'd sent in troops and forced an evacuation prior to the storm's striking, and the levees had held, then he'd have been held out to be a bumbling dunce.

The only bumbling dunces were the mayor, the governor, and those fools who refused to evacuate.
 
Back
Top