Mauser 98 Question

Yes shoot it and yes to getting the live rust off. Rust is like cancer or coyotes, every day you wait it gets worse. You'll want to clean the bore first and that's a whole other operation. If you haven't invested anything yet, consider a foaming product. You squirt some in the back end, let it slither down the bore onto a newspaper - I think the can says 15 or 20 minutes - and bingo it's clean, or maybe do it again. They say you don't have to run a patch but I feel better lightly oiling the bore. If you've got even a .22 cal rod that's OK for light oil. If you plan on serious cleaning with a rod, you'll need the right size rod, jag and patches. For solvent I like Butches's, Shooters Choice is good or Hoppe's. If you want to get fancy with paste I'll yak about my experiences with that another time.
That foaming stuff is expensive, but I'm sold on it right now and it would probably be cheaper in the long run.
 
Oil and a rag, rubbing until no more rust comes off. Then oil and 0000 steel wool until no more rust comes off. The oil coat and leave it for a while. Maybe do this a couple times.

Being a .25-06 odds are slim it was fired with corrosive primers, so bore rust might not be bad (compared to the outside of the barrel). .25-06, besides rust, the most likely bore problem will be copper fouling. Odds are there might be some, but probably not a lot, as given the history you gave us, the rifle probably wasn't shot much.

The best copper remover I know is RB-17. Not cheap, nor easy to find, but it works great and is non toxic.

Once the bore is clean, shoot it, and see if its worth further work.

Replacing the barrel on a Mauser 98 is a job that needs the right tools, and for most of us, is better done by professionals. You can spring the action if you don't do it right, ruining it. Also, putting a barrel on is not a trivial matter, either, particularly headspacing.

IF you do decide to have the barrel replaced, I would recommend having a GOOD shop do it. The cost may seem high, considering what it will be worth (market value) when done, but then, we aren't doing this for market value, are we? Also, using a professional ensures it will be done right, and you will get more money easier than you will get another action, and this rifle can't be totally replaced because of its family history. Don't let Bubba and his bench vice and pipe wrench anywhere NEAR it!!!! Even if his work is FREE!

Its not like putting a new barrel on an AR, not even close. Find a shop that has some experience, if you do decide to go that route.

I did a number of Mausers back in the day, All the stock work, triggers, scope safeties, followers, trigger guards, etc. What I left to the pros were barrels and drilling & tapping for scope mounts & sights, and bending /replacing bolt handles.

Most of that has already been done on your rifle.

You will probably want a different trigger, BUT the stock triggers can be decent, though heavier than most would prefer. The two stage pull is something some hate, some live with, and some actually prefer. You can rework the trigger and eliminate the take up stage if you wish.

CAREFUL stoning/polishing of the engagement surfaces can make a difference, but I would not recommend it at this point (unless they are visibly rough) It's easy to do too much, and if you use a power tool, you should be seriously spanked or whipped. :rolleyes: Mauser tinkerer's rule #1, never "improve" anything you can't easily replace! :)

Good Luck, and keep us informed how it goes!
 
Naval Jelly will remove the rust, it will also remove what finish is left. Until he starts working on it, there is really no way of telling what is left. As an added bonus, if he starts with gun oil and a rag, he probably doesn't need to buy anything.
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Going to have to refinish anyways, it's not like there is a new finish just hiding under the rust waiting to be exposed.

Hence the follow on portion of my response about refinishing.

Jimro
 
Going to have to refinish anyways, it's not like there is a new finish just hiding under the rust waiting to be exposed.
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No, there won't be a "new" finish, but there may be an acceptable finish, and he won't know unless he first removes the rust with the least destructive method possible. Yeah, it needing a full refinish is more likely than not, but having something left under the surface rust is not impossible.

He will never know if he follows your advice.

Personally I think an 80 year old rifle having some patina is not a bad thing.
 
Patina on an old gun is fine, if its an original old gun. So is "honest wear".

That's not the kind of gun we're looking at. It's a rebarreled military mauser 98, converted to .25-06, which sadly got rusted.

Kind of like turning an old Model A or Model T into a hot rod, you wouldn't do that, and not give it new paint, eventually, would you???
 
As several have said in this thread so far, get it checked for safety by an HONEST gunsmith (headspace, integrity of bolt/action, safety function) & then shoot it to get a true appraisal of what you may want to do next. You'll need to scope it, even if temporarily with a loaner scope to get a good accuracy check. Too bad you don't have a knowledgeable shooting friend to help with this.

All said, at least from my point of view, congratulations, you have a GREAT project rifle on your hands!

JIMHO
 
No, there won't be a "new" finish, but there may be an acceptable finish, and he won't know unless he first removes the rust with the least destructive method possible. Yeah, it needing a full refinish is more likely than not, but having something left under the surface rust is not impossible.
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Having something left under the surface rust is not impossible? Yes it is.

What is left under the surface rust is going to be bare steel. You can blue that bare steel, or you can cover it with oil, but I guarantee you there is no finish under the rust just waiting to be discovered.

Bluing is a form of oxidation, a rust but at a different oxidation state. When you get red rust, it is a clear sign that the finish (which was just the top layer of Fe molecules) is gone. Nothing left underneath. There are chemical products that will stop the redox chemistry that is red rust, convert it to a different oxidation state, and prep the surface for further treatment, but there is no way that removing rust by mechanical means is going to leave anything but more steel/iron without a surface treatment.

Jimro
 
Having something left under the surface rust is not impossible? Yes it is.
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You ever try to remove surface rust, or do you just go straight to the naval jelly?

I have an old Colt Police Positive that had quite a lot of surface rust (not as bad as the OPs rifle, but quite a bit), and the bluing under the rust was still in good shape.
 
I have an old Colt Police Positive that had quite a lot of surface rust (not as bad as the OPs rifle, but quite a bit), and the bluing under the rust was still in good shape.
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I've had a few like that too.
 
I have an old Colt Police Positive that had quite a lot of surface rust (not as bad as the OPs rifle, but quite a bit), and the bluing under the rust was still in good shape.
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What you are saying is that the pits of bare metal didn't look too bad once you got the ugly red stuff off. That's absolutely not the same as having a fresh finish just waiting under the rust.

I've refinished barrels that looked as bad as the OPs before (thank goodness the bore wasn't too pitted). I did the oil and steel wool route the first time. Now it's Naval Jelly and strip it down to begin a refinish of the metal. Although if you have a blasting cabinet that would be even faster to get a good matte finish (I don't, friend of mine does though). A satin finish can be done working up ato 1200 grit sandpaper. I never bothered to go all the way to the buffing wheel for a mirror polish on the barrel of a hunting rifle, but if you want that it's an option.

Jimro
 
What you are saying is that the pits of bare metal didn't look too bad once you got the ugly red stuff off.
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No, what he's saying is there was no pitting and actual bluing under the rust. I've seen it happen myself.
 
I'd not use "naval jelly" to deal with the rust unless I'd want to also remove the bluing too.

My preference for a rust remover, that does not harm the bluing, is a product called "Blue Wonder cleaner". Its a decent bore cleaner too. But, as mentioned, a decent oil with a fine steel wool (brass wool better to use) works too, just more likely to remove bluing if too aggressive with it.

For touch up work, I'd recommend a cold blue product called Brownell's Oxpho Blue. It's made in a liquid or creme version. Most of its users seem to prefer the creme version, as do I. Have used both versions with decent results, especially on barrels.....receivers can be a different story on quality of finish due to it being heat treated/a harder metal and the metal in a barrel is softer.

By the way, Blue Wonder also has a Bluing Kit and while it costs more than Oxpho Blue, I think it works better than Oxpho. But, its not as simple to prep and to apply as Oxpho.
 
No, what he's saying is there was no pitting and actual bluing under the rust. I've seen it happen myself.
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Exactly. It wasn't "Fresh finish" as you say, but there was finish, and the pistol still looks pretty good for being ~100 years old.

I suspect the success or failure has to do with how good the finish was when the rust started.

You really don't know unless you try.
 
There is something called, "conservation of mass" in both chemistry and physics.

If you are pulling red rust off the barrel, it is iron that came from the barrel you are pulling off.

Fe2O3 is red rust, Fe3O4 is bluing (the black state of oxidation). The oxidation from the 2+ state to the 3+ of ionization is the finish on your rifle barrel flaking off. Just because you can't see the pitting left behind doesn't mean it isn't there. Inside those pits is metal that was never treated with any finishing treatment. During the ionization state change the geometry changes so that red rust "expands" and grows larger than the black oxide state, so you will see red rust growing mechanically over some of the other bluing. But that red rust had to come from somewhere, the rust fairy just didn't deposit it magically, it grew out of the barrel steel. And from where it grew, there will be a pit. Might be one molecule deep, might be thousands. But it is there.

Believe that there is a finish just waiting to be discovered under the rust if you like, but the conservation of mass says there isn't.

Jimro
 
I can only speak from a layman's perspective, but I have observed a considerable amount of rust in my life, and a great deal of it has been on firearms. Sometimes the demon appears as a soft uniform coating, I suppose when humidity works over time on a uniformly prepared surface. In other cases, severe corrosion exists beside pristine surfaces, sometimes as a distinct thumbprint or blood splash. The barrel in question exhibits a pronounced splatter effect. The rust abruptly ends at the caliber stamp, and while the stock offered some protection in its thicker area, the last several inches did not. It looks like one event caused significant damage to an otherwise clean rifle. So, the most gentle and careful de-rusting would probably produce a nicely-blued gun with some localized splotches and perhaps severe pitting. Oil and a rag would seem like the way to start, with the understanding that more vigorous methods may be required.
 
If you can't see it then it doesn't matter.
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No, it means you should see an optometrist. ;) Rust doesn't just wipe off leaving a pristine finish behind. If you find it acceptable, that is fine. If you can't see it, it just means you aren't really looking.

Of course if not seeing things makes them not matter, Ray Charles was a blessed man.

Keep it oiled and you will never see it
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That's the part that matters. The oil is there to stop the reaction from letting the bare steel act as an anode.

Jimro
 
Rust doesn't just wipe off leaving a pristine finish behind.
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FFS.

The only one saying "Pristine" is you. I have never said anything but "Acceptable".

And there is no "Bare Steel", at least on the guns I have done this too. You can say there is as much or as loudly as you want, it won't make it any less false.

The finish where I removed the rust doesn't look any different than the rest of the 100 year old pistol.

The OPs rifle could have been rebarreled as far back as the late 1940s, although it was probably done after 1969 when Remington standardized the .25-06. The finish under the surface rust could be acceptable, if he takes the time and effort to try and remove it using the least aggressive means available (rag, oil, elbow grease), the only one who can make that determination is him.
 
Once you rust off the magnetite surface (that would be the bluing), you are left with elemental iron exposed. It is not opinion, it is chemistry.

The only one saying "Pristine" is you. I have never said anything but "Acceptable".
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Then let me remind you of what you did say since you obviously forgot high school chemistry.

It wasn't "Fresh finish" as you say, but there was finish
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If you find bare iron pits acceptable as a metal finish, that's fine. Personally I don't count bare iron as "finish" but maybe I'm just old school that way.

Jimro
 
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