Mandatory Training for CCW

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Wild, would you consider it moral, practical and ethical to require marksmanship and gun safety training in High School? Personally I'd like to see it as a requirement for physical education instead of all the silly ball games. Nothing more useless IMHO than a requirement that students stand in line to learn to hit balls with sticks, except possibly standing in line to learn to throw balls into elevated hoops.:rolleyes:
 
Wild, would you consider it moral, practical and ethical to require marksmanship and gun safety training in High School?
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hell yeah! I'd like to see this:

"Sec 2 (b) The training requirement for issuance of a CCW shall be deemed satisfied if the applicant demonstrates completion of an NRA certified 2 year HS Course on Firrearms Safety and Responsibility...."

But no, people get their panties worked into wedgies at the mere thought of goverrnment mandating training. I say welcome it. Deal with it. Take the offensive with it! Demonstrate the warrior mindset. Attack!

You want training there Chuckie...OK...heres what we, state X is gonna do... MAKE IT REQUIRED in HS...

Build ya a generation of progun voters huh...and shooting is a feel good activity, even the weakest nerd can do well. Chicks at the HS level do better than boys...what empowerment!!

WildyouguysneedtothingoutsideoftheboxAlaska ™
 
Well heck...let's mandate diet and exercise too! Cant hurt you...in fact, it is key to a healthy population!! With all of the health problems that over-eating and no physical activity causes, let's legislate that and see who ends up on the wrong side of the law.

How's that for thinking outside the box?
 
I hardly hope to change anyones minds. And want to say that I do 100% believe that people who own and carry firearms should try and get as much training as possible. However in either case I wish everyone the best of luck in their firearms endevors.

For those of you who feel it should be mandatory remember that to give a right that is yours to the goverment is foolish. And once given it is very hard to retrieve. Gun laws chip away at our rights little by little. And creat fissures that become big enough to divide. And once divided it takes little wash away the rest. This was the tactic back in 1919 and it worked. So please give none of my rights on your behalf.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Weapons_Law

http://constitutionalistnc.tripod.com/hitler-leftist/id14.html
 
Gun safety should be taught in high school, something basic that covers how to deal with a loaded gun and how to react if you see one. I'd put that and credit safety into every high school. Might be a little more useful than trying to make every kid learn the metric system.

I'm not sure about how I feel about mandatory CCW training. I'm a late gun bloomer, I grew up in an anti house. I learned how to shoot from my father-in-law and the lessons he taught me were re-enforced when I took my hunter safety class.

I'm not a fan of government mandates, but I've got to admit that the state of Maine did a good job when it came to the hunter safety class. And if mandatory training to shoot a deer makes sense...
 
I'm not a fan of government mandates, but I've got to admit that the state of Maine did a good job when it came to the hunter safety class. And if mandatory training to shoot a deer makes sense...
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But please explain HOW / WHY it makes sense.

All those in favor of mandatory training point to safety. Yet no one can come up with any kind of proof that mandatory safety training would or could actually work, especially in preventing negligent/accidental shootings by persons with a CHL.

And what's more, not an iota of proof that criminals are a lesser danger than people who legally own guns has been presented, despite it being foisted on us as fact.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain the moral and practical grounds of why we should turn a right into a privilege.
 
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If I had the energy I'd sift through the posts here and come up with dozens of reasons to be wary of my fellow citizens being armed. Hell, after spending time here I'm as afraid of knocking on a door after my truck broke down as I am walking through a bad neighborhood.

People in the United States also have the right to live without guns. Those of us who own and carry should respect those who chose not to, and they have the right to expect us to know what we're doing.
 
If I had the energy I'd sift through the posts here and come up with dozens of reasons to be wary of my fellow citizens being armed.
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How about just one or two of the top reasons. That should save you considerable trouble.

People in the United States also have the right to live without guns. Those of us who own and carry should respect those who chose not to, and they have the right to expect us to know what we're doing.
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The right to live without guns? Not sure what you mean by that.

When was the last time you (or anyone reading this thread) saw a person who is legally carrying a gun, such as a CCW'er, violate the rights of a person who doesn't carry through lack of training?
 
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Here's a thread that includes a bunch of reasons: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256585

We've got a bunch of law abiding citizens rushing to praise a drug dealer after he sprayed his neighborhood while defending his stash.

The right to live without guns? Not sure what you mean by that.
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IMHO parents should have the right to expect that their kids will be relatively safe in school, professors have the right to expect that they can enter a lecture hall without carrying. People have the right to expect a safe workplace.

I respect you and your opinions (especially given your sig line), but personally I don't object to having to go through some basic training in order to carry a concealed firearm. Again, I had to take a training class before I could hunt, but I still got to hunt.
 
I am at odds with myself trying to read this stuff...
1)My folks taught me the rules of safe gun ownership, handling and use... It is not the duty of schools or the taxpayers to teach their idea of gun safety on kids! i took gun safety in school in the late '70's and it was a JOKE! ALL OF US IN THAT class had already been taught that info and much more!
2)For every law passed a little freedom is lost! Everyone here should know this fundamental!
3)Every american has the right to NOT carry a gun but none IMHO has the right to expect no guns are in the hands of others! I bet those involved in shootings at schools of any level expected to be in a gun free zone! had there been a CCW owner around the shooting would have ceased sooner most likely! While I FULLY respect the right of others to not carry a gun I do not expect to be sued by that person if I take the life of a person imposing the threat of death or severe injury upon them!
I have all too often seen vehicle operators that had "training" that obviously had no clue of the info shown to them! NONE of these so called classes that the government backs are to teach! They are simply bureaucracies taking money from one group to BS another group that they are doing right by them!
Brent
 
People have the right to expect a safe workplace.
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Good luck with that one. I'm not arguing that they don't have the right I'm simply stating the truth. I have the right to expect to win the lotto too but I have yet to collect on that thought.
 
IMHO parents should have the right to expect that their kids will be relatively safe in school, professors have the right to expect that they can enter a lecture hall without carrying. People have the right to expect a safe workplace.
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Mandatory safety training would have in no way prevented the VT tragedy if that is what you are implying.
 
People in the United States also have the right to live without guns.
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No, I don't think so. I've read the rest of your posts and you express some reasonable wishes but I think that this particular one is not really traditional thinking. I've noticed that there seems to be a rise of similar opinions, everything from the 'right of freedom from religion' and the 'right to have a smoke free environment' to the 'right to eat pesticide free food', 'the right to a college education regardless of intellectual handicap' or even 'animal rights'. I wonder exactly where these rights come from and what do they mean except that their exerciser subtracts from someone else's rights in order to maintain them. Regarding your sentiments about wishing that people in an academic environment should never have to protect themselves, exactly who will protect them? Who pays for the protection and who else has their rights abrogated to allow them this privilege?

Back to the topic of guns this country was established under the assumption that "the people" would protect it and the founding fathers intended that the citizenry would participate in armed duty. (Originally they had no intent of any sort of standing army except for a small training cadre.) I would think that the historically correct answer to Wild's original question would be to require universal weapons training (as per my high school PE recommendation). Making training a ccw requirement without making mandatory universal familiarization training a requirement for all voting citizens is putting the cart before the horse.

(BTW I also think that parents should have the right to assign a machine-gun wielding family member to watch the kid's school in the Israeli anti-terrorist tradition. That would put an end to these school massacres. When is the last time you've seen news of some pimply punk shooting up an Israeli school?)
 
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People in the United States also have the right to live without guns.
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If you mean they have a right not to own personally, then I can agree with that. If you think they have a right to infringe upon other's peoples choice to own firearms and carry them for personal protection then I think you're on the wrong forum.

Again, I had to take a training class before I could hunt, but I still got to hunt.
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Next door here in New Hampshire, hunters are required to take mandatory training to get the license. CCWers are not.

Guess what? I can't remember the last time I've heard about a CCW related accident in this state. However, I can recall quite a few hunting accidents. Doesn't speak well for the supposed "benefits" of mandatory training.
 
I totally agree with both of you. Brings driver training to mind.

Stipulating that testing is required in order to receive a motor vehicle driving license, it would appear that based on the yearly traffic accident statistics alone that safety training has little to no effect on accident prevention.

Mandatory training/testing does nothing other than prove that you know how to operate something safely at the time of the test. It does not guarantee that the person tested will continue to operate the object safely from that point on. Most motor vehicle accidents are the result of unsafe driving by tested and licensed drivers. Go figure! Certainly mandatory gun safety training no bearing on crime prevention and to suggest that it does is naive and foolish at best.

From the OP, mandating gun training was presented as a "moral" question and not a legal question. I would counter that our constitutional rights are based on morals and protected by law, and thus it ultimately IS a legal question.

Every poster in this thread so far who is in favor of mandatory training to own or carry a handgun did not come close to coming up with valid reason or provided even a scrap of proof sufficient enough to for us to agree to give up our 2nd Amendment right and turn it into a privilege.

This is why 200+ years after The Bill of Rights was ratified, safety training is still not a requirement to own a gun.
 
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Next door here in New Hampshire, hunters are required to take mandatory training to get the license. CCWers are not.

Guess what? I can't remember the last time I've heard about a CCW related accident in this state. However, I can recall quite a few hunting accidents. Doesn't speak well for the supposed "benefits" of mandatory training.
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Excellent point. I learned something from this, you guys are right. Thanks for the good exchange and Happy Thanksgiving.
 
This is why 200+ years after The Bill of Rights was ratified, safety training is still not a requirement to own a gun.
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Dont get complacent, under an reasonably expansive favourable ruling in Heller mandatory training would be constituional.

Again, you guys keep turning to the legalities. Im talking practicalities, morality, efficiency, utility (in the benthamite sense)...

Here think outside the box...stop simplistically looking at your gun-woobie as a right, but look as it was intended, as a duty...

Happy Tday

WildofftothegrocerystoreAlaska TM
 
Im talking practicalities, morality, efficiency, utility (in the benthamite sense)...
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Trouble with your question is that most of us are believers in at least a form of the natural "rights of man" in the Paine-ian or Locke-ian sense and your hypothetical box excludes Benthamitic argument.

So with this in mind I think that when we abolish high school ball sports in favor of a good foundation in gun handling we need to also do away with "social studies" in favor of a solid course in political history and moral philosophy.

WhereisLtColJeanVDuboiswhenyouneedhim?

Meek

Edited to add that in all seriousness the only way that any mandatory firearms training would achieve the purpose of the founding fathers would be if it was 1) universal 2) tied into our individual duties to serve in the collective military 3) firmly supported by a populace trained in the history, philosophy and science of freedom and 4) not merely a screening tool for CCW.
 
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