Mandatory Training for CCW

[mountainclmbr]

I am all in favor of certified training! In fact I am currently the only CERTIFIED breathing instructor. All breathing will cease until you are certified by me. The next two minutes are scheduled for the Victoria's Secret super models. Computer problems and my own lack of interest prevent accurate scheduling after that.

 

[Creature]

Or are you saying that your only objection is the legal one?

Nope...simple question: on what moral ground do you or the State stand on in mandating weapons training in order for me to defend myself?

Are you implying that the State is morally superior to me and that I must prove myself to the State in order to be stamped morally developed enough to self defense?

 

[hogdogs]

Gun ownership?
Loud pipes?
loud peterbilts?
Done been there time and again!
I owned one of the first mossberg bullpups sold in Sanford Fla. walmart!
Sold it!!! Had too many other choices!
I had 3.5 inch exaust after 2 3/4 inch pipes... yep they was loud! I done been rear ended on a 2 lane road and had little to lose!
peterbilt? Son lemme tell you!!! After we strapped a four speed over drive brownie box to a 15 speed double over drive... That sum bitch would roll out at 135-145 and not be NEAR high gear! When it passed you on the interstate you thought he was a daily driver at 9 bucks an hour! Build top end stuff is what I did! we did not goof around with Big Macs!
Brent

 

[Wildalaska]

on what moral ground do you or the State stand on in mandating weapons training in order for me to defend myself?

Moral ground? How about an untrained person carrying a gun is a danger equal to the danger that criminals pose.

You can defend yourslef without a gun.. Learn Akido. That cant hurt innocent bystanders.

WildhowzzatAlaska TM

 

[The Tourist]

You keep bring up things that aren't guaranteed rights and can be regulated as if they are the same as a Right guaranteed by law.

It's always funny when leftists like you are willing to sell me out but expect me to support the things you believe are "rights."

Thanks to legislation in 1934 and 1968 you don't have as many gun rights as you think. You can also thank laws like The Sullivan Act for making honest citizens apply for the CCW licenses we have now.

America has a very select memory. Oil and OPEC didn't kill muscle cars, but it's a nice fairy tale people can tell to keep America green. The fact is that we were giving cheap 400 horsepower cars to teenagers, who like all teenagers, had trouble parallel parking. They smashed up so many Dodge Chargers that insurance companies jacked the rates through the roof.

And idiots made it impossible for anyone to actually afford a hemi.

How does this equate to rights under The Second?

Again, once you start a climate where a reasonable man feels the Constitution has passed its need, or oversteps supposed rights, you'll find people like Diane Feinstein passing garbage and no one cares.

Take away loud pipes and guns are next. The same arguments will be used.

"No one needs loud pipes and muscle cars." "No one needs the weapons of the police and military."

The problem is logic and "the slope." In point of fact, my bike runs better on Screaming Eagle pipes. For you RUBs, that means my pipes have some baffling. A straight pipe has no back pressure. And truth be told, I'm just as ticked as anyone when an idiot blasts through my neighborhood at 2:00AM.

You cannot expect your rights, even those guaranteed by The Framers, to be respected if you do not support freedoms in other areas.

If you come out for helmet legislation, don't expect bikers to get all lathered up when the government mandates firearms competency training for you. Frankly, I'm beginning to think that the average citizen ought to get a little taste of what bikers tolerate now.

A little mandated training might be a good thing there, Dirty Harry.

(See how it feels?)

 

[Manedwolf]

Do you know what implements helmet laws? Idiots and crashes.

New Hampshire has no helmet law.

No seatbelt law.

And no training requirement for CCW.

It's not a problem. Never has been. If someone kills themselves on a motorcycle, the police get the hose, and it was their own damn fault.

Don't hear of mishaps with CCWers. Just felons, and some illegal aliens who shouldn't have had a gun by law anyway.

You're responsible for yourself. Why I live here.

 

[The Tourist]

Manedwolf,

And I envy you.

The problem with the concept of "rights" is that most people espouse that their rights are noble and my rights are simply tolerated privileges. Sounds like Hillary Clinton to me.

For example, the use of highways, and even a drivers license is a privilege. And don't think people who demand helmet laws will ever let bikers forget it.

But a similar concept is the use of firearms on public land. You might be able to hunt deer on DNR land in Wisconsin, but you cannot carry firearms on Federal land, or even into Federal buildings.

I have heard libertarians squeak ad nauseum about just who owns "Federal land."

Here's another example. I have heard many debates by shotgun owners who do not support the need for semi-automatic firearms. For them, a reasonable man owns a shotgun, but only a survivalist nut wants an AR.

You think enumerated rights are a lock? Guess again, what's the difference between "hate speech" and the protected right of unpopular speech? You might ask Dog the Bounty Hunter.

I have no use for a man who mouths The Second while denying me freedom in other areas. He's the kind of guy who in the end feels like The Bill of Rights should be applied only by selection.

 

[PT111]

I think anyone who is allowed to carry a gun should be required to know which end the bullet comes out of. I was in a CWP class where there were two women who every time the wwent to fire the gun they closed their eyes and turned their head away. I don't object at all to them being allowed to defend themselves but I don't want to be anywhere close by when they do it. The instructor did work with them a good bit but neither could ever get up the confidence to pull the trigger with their eyes open.

I know that anyone who owns a gun should also have enough incentive to learn how to use it but most don't and even more have no idea of the laws and safety practices. So yes I am in favor of some kind of mandatory training before issuing a carry permit.

 

[Manedwolf]

Here's another example. I have heard many debates by shotgun owners who do not support the need for semi-automatic firearms. For them, a reasonable man owns a shotgun, but only a survivalist nut wants an AR.

Fudds have done more to damage 2A than the antis have.

I think anyone who is allowed to carry a gun should be required to know which end the bullet comes out of.

On whose authority? Big Government?

 

[The Tourist]

On whose authority? Big Government?

This is where rights and reality reach a tipping point for me.

You use the word "Fudd" in your response, and I know exactly what you mean.

Now examine the same idea from my point of the debate. I've had an inexperienced teenager brush my right elbow with an WRX STi he had absolutely no business driving. He was so far over his head that I'm surprised he passed his driver's test.

Now consider this. In most families, a father or uncle or grandfather takes a boy about 12 years of age under their wing and teaches them safety and markmanship. In point of fact, The Second makes no comment on the age of the gun owner.

In fact, the only time I know where age is mentioned is in The Federalist Papers where it discusses just who is in the militia.

There is clearly a practical rite a passage we all believe in. My wife was a suburban girl from a Democratic household. I taught her to shoot, and she still hates to clean. She was never much good with automatics and she prefers revolvers.

Under the law, we are equal.

 

[mordis]

I personaly dont think there should be mandatory training to recieve your permit, but i think there should be a incentive to prior training. Say, when you get training, first get a letter from the trainer saying you were competent. Then you get your permit you then either recieve some sort of tax incentive, or my prefered one method, a gift certificate, or voucher for $75-$100 off the cost of a firearm at the gunstore of your choosing. That would inspire alot of people to get training.

I dont think it should be mandatory, becuase the lawmakers never stop, they keep regulating and regulating till its damn near impossible to get a permit and carry.

 

[Wildalaska]

I dont think it should be mandatory, becuase the lawmakers never stop, they keep regulating and regulating till its damn near impossible to get a permit and carry.

Funny, in the 80s about the only place the average person could get a permit to carry was what??/ NY and PA?

Didnt even have them in Texas and Florida...

Now look at it.

Big Government is surely stopping it LOL


WildletsgetrealAlaska ™

 

[The Tourist]

becuase the lawmakers never stop

Oh, no doubt, I agree. However, I wonder which issue would inflame them more.

The fact that numerous Americans insist on their rights, or idiots shooting up the place.

 

[Creature]

Moral ground? How about an untrained person carrying a gun is a danger equal to the danger that criminals pose.

You can defend yourslef without a gun.. Learn Akido. That cant hurt innocent bystanders.

WildhowzzatAlaska TM

I should learn Aikido instead? Why? What if I am a 72 year old grandmother...or a 98 pound woman in fear of a 300lb ex-boyfriend/husband who is a maniac? What if I am in a wheelchair?

What then? Am I just SOL?

And explain to me how an armed but untrained citizen is an equal danger than an armed criminal! Show me the data that supports your claim.

 

[Silentarmy]

I thought I made it clear in my last post that I am Not in favor of MANDATORY training but that it should be a responsibility of the carrier. As far as Burden of proof is concerned, The Unreasonable, retarded, obsessively tactical, and psychotic will manifest themselves in their actions and the resulting legislation will affect even you people who can't see past the "its my Right" argument! I am appalled by the number of forum members who are not only self proclaimed Ignorant or untrained but proud as hell of that fact! The point I made in my last post that Don seemed to find so irrelevant to the the subject at hand was that my training cost me more than you could dream! I came home with a greater respect for human life and While some find the fact that I only own scary black Killing tools (no hunting arms)Disturbing, I live by the idea that "If it is smart enough to run away when I point a gun at it then I will not kill it"! Sure, the Constitution gives you the right! whether you deserve it or not. But it also gives every other individual in this great country the right not to be terrorized by your actions, stupidity, ignorance, obsessive nature, or generally psychotic behavior. So, It boils down to who,s right trumps?

 

[DonR101395]

It's always funny when leftists like you are willing to sell me out but expect me to support the things you believe are "rights."

That's one of the funniest as well as the dumbest things I've read today. Possibly ever

Thanks to legislation in 1934 and 1968 you don't have as many gun rights as you think. You can also thank laws like The Sullivan Act for making honest citizens apply for the CCW licenses we have now.

No kidding Einstein and you would like to add more to it. Gotcha Waldo

America has a very select memory. Oil and OPEC didn't kill muscle cars, but it's a nice fairy tale people can tell to keep America green. The fact is that we were giving cheap 400 horsepower cars to teenagers, who like all teenagers, had trouble parallel parking. They smashed up so many Dodge Chargers that insurance companies jacked the rates through the roof.

If you recall in the 70's many if not most states didn't require insurance, but gas tripled in price.

Again, once you start a climate where a reasonable man feels the Constitution has passed its need, or oversteps supposed rights, you'll find people like Diane Feinstein passing garbage and no one cares.

And then folks like you come along and are willing to give a little. Hey it's only a little compromise

Take away loud pipes and guns are next. The same arguments will be used.

"No one needs loud pipes and muscle cars." "No one needs the weapons of the police and military."

You just can't seem to get over the fact that loud pipes aren't covered in the Constitution or BOR.

The problem is logic and "the slope." In point of fact, my bike runs better on Screaming Eagle pipes. For you RUBs, that means my pipes have some baffling. A straight pipe has no back pressure. And truth be told, I'm just as ticked as anyone when an idiot blasts through my neighborhood at 2:00AM.

Did I say I disagreed with loud pipes? Uhh NO, I said they weren't a protect right.

You cannot expect your rights, even those guaranteed by The Framers, to be respected if you do not support freedoms in other areas.

More crying because somebody took your straight pipes.

If you come out for helmet legislation, don't expect bikers to get all lathered up when the government mandates firearms competency training for you. Frankly, I'm beginning to think that the average citizen ought to get a little taste of what bikers tolerate now.

I prefer to wear a helmet, but I wish they would get rid of helmet laws. It would make everyone safer by culling the heard.

A little mandated training might be a good thing there, Dirty Harry.

(See how it feels?)

Make up my mind am I Dirty Harry or a leftist. I can't be a leftist Dirty Harry that would just be un-American

 

[The Tourist]

Why do you object to anyone having his freedoms impinged?

Frankly, if you take the Constitution and the Bill of Rights at face value, you don't have as many rights as you think.

You mention my biking not having a foothold in our rights. Painfully true.

However, in that regard, the government does not need any new law whatsoever in curtailing your driving. In time of war (or if the government tells us there is a war), it can limit gasoline sales, or institute hours of use.

Driving is a privilege, and the government owns the roads.

You might also own that gun of yours under law. But the government can tax it to death, along with ammo. The Second says nothing about costs and taxes levied.

In the final analysis, you don't even have the right to be happy. You have a right to "pursue happiness," but the government is not required to provide it.

Imagine that. The government says, "Get off my road," and bullets cost 25 dollars apiece. All legal. All Constitutional.

My point is that claiming "somebody else" has no rights under law is a fool's game. Frankly, I'm not Rambo, I have no real part in the fight against The One World Order.

But I do like to ride. If hard pressed, I might give Diane Feinstein my guns (at least the ones she knows about) if I got cruise on the weekends. What do I care.

As stated, not all of the diehard gun guys all agree. The shotgun guys would shaft you in an eye blink. In some cases, they already have.

The only choice you have is to support freedoms as they exist for all Americans. If you like your guns, you'd better support my bike.

 

[DonR101395]

The only choice you have is to support freedoms as they exist for all Americans. If you like your guns, you'd better support my bike.

IMO that's exactly what I'm doing by not supporting anymore gun laws.

As for bikes, I also ride and support the riding cause, I just see it as a different ball game. I haven't had a Harley since 90 though. A 73 Sportster with straight pipes and yes my neighbors hated me since I went to work a 4:30 a.m everyday.

 

[Avenger11]

NH is the last holdout to join the 21st Century. The State and it's backward views, it's primary, and it's motto is irrelevant in todays world!! Now that we have discounted NH as having any real impact on anything important, let's go back to the OP about mandatory CC training.
We have more rational gun laws today, that at any time in our history. Why?? Because if you give a little, you gain alot. Certaintly, the NRA understands that principle which is why they have sucessfully kept the anti's at bay.
Those here that promote paranoia, and goverment conspiracies to restrict rights, do more harm than good.

 

[DonR101395]

We have more gun laws today, that at any time in our history. Why?? Because if you give a little, they take alot. Certaintly, the NRA understands that principle which is why I can't understand why they keep giving my rights away as if they were theirs to give away.
Those here that promote compromise, rational gun laws and to restrict rights, do more harm than good.





There you go I fixed your post for you:barf: