Rifleman 173
New member
If you hit a bad guy in the heart or between the running lights (eyes) with a 9 X 18 round, that bad guy has had a real bad day. Shot placement with any round, even a 9 by 18, is the key to effectiveness.
Makarov 9x18mm: Effective cartridge for concealed carry, yes or no?
- Thread starter JQP
- Start date
Yeah, the 9x18mm Makarov cartridge should be compared to 380 auto; not to 9mm Parabellum (aka 9mm Luger ammo). The Parabellum or Luger cartridge uses a longer cased 9x19mm cartridge which can be loaded quite a bit hotter than the 9x18mm Mak can, because the pistols that shoot the 9x19mm cartridge aren't straight blowback designs like the Makarov pistol is and most of the older 380's are. (Some modern 380's are also of locked breech design).
I have a Kel-Tec P3AT in 380 ACP, and a 9x18mm E. German Makarov pistol too, so I've got one gun of each caliber in this fight. I think there's a place for both.
I think that the 380 auto cartridge is the ideal marriage of cartridge to gun in a P3AT or LCP or such gun that's intended as a BUG or police undercover gun, or for a situation where truly concealed carry is a must for civilians, or for any situation where the desire for a big hitter bullet must be counter-balanced by the need for absolute concealment of the gun. I think the use of any bigger caliber than 380 for this purpose would require a bigger, heavier, bulkier, an ultimately less concealable gun to shoot it in.
I see my 9x18 mm EG Makarov pistol and some of the brand x pistols that shoot the same 9x18 mm Makarov cartridge as being reasonably concealable for shoulder holster use under a sports jacket or suit coat when its not absolutely neccesary that NOONE realize you're carrying a weapon. This means it's ok for detective type police work or for taking my wife out to dinner in nice restaurants which for some reason nowadays all seem to like to locate in "edgy" neighborhoods, and to other places where I don't care if someone sees a little bulge under my jacket.
The big advantage of a Mak is it's legendary reliability. You know when you pull the trigger it's going to go BANG! every time. Except for the grips, its an steel gun and it's pretty heavy for a gun of its caliber. That may be a problem if you carry a lot and want a lighter weight gun, but it's a real blessing when you really need a gun because it can be held dead on a target when firing in single action. True, it doesn't hit as hard as a 9x19mm but it is more powerful than a 380, and if you can halfway shoot and handle a gun, it'll hit what you're shooting at just about as fast as you can pull the trigger without forcing you to reaquire your target after every shot.
IMHO, my all-steel EG Makarov is just too big and too heavy for front pocket concealment though. I tried it once and my wife hit me with that great old Mae West line: "Do you think I'm attractive, or is that a gun in your pocket?"
My EG Mak was originally used by the Stasi (E. German Secret Police) for undercover/detective/other secret police type work. It came complete with its shoulder holster when I purchased it. The gun was in absolutely beautiful condition but its holster was the cheapest-looking POS I ever saw. I dumped the holster immediately and bought new. But shoulder holster carry was and is this guns special niche, in my opinion.
I have a Kel-Tec P3AT in 380 ACP, and a 9x18mm E. German Makarov pistol too, so I've got one gun of each caliber in this fight. I think there's a place for both.
I think that the 380 auto cartridge is the ideal marriage of cartridge to gun in a P3AT or LCP or such gun that's intended as a BUG or police undercover gun, or for a situation where truly concealed carry is a must for civilians, or for any situation where the desire for a big hitter bullet must be counter-balanced by the need for absolute concealment of the gun. I think the use of any bigger caliber than 380 for this purpose would require a bigger, heavier, bulkier, an ultimately less concealable gun to shoot it in.
I see my 9x18 mm EG Makarov pistol and some of the brand x pistols that shoot the same 9x18 mm Makarov cartridge as being reasonably concealable for shoulder holster use under a sports jacket or suit coat when its not absolutely neccesary that NOONE realize you're carrying a weapon. This means it's ok for detective type police work or for taking my wife out to dinner in nice restaurants which for some reason nowadays all seem to like to locate in "edgy" neighborhoods, and to other places where I don't care if someone sees a little bulge under my jacket.
The big advantage of a Mak is it's legendary reliability. You know when you pull the trigger it's going to go BANG! every time. Except for the grips, its an steel gun and it's pretty heavy for a gun of its caliber. That may be a problem if you carry a lot and want a lighter weight gun, but it's a real blessing when you really need a gun because it can be held dead on a target when firing in single action. True, it doesn't hit as hard as a 9x19mm but it is more powerful than a 380, and if you can halfway shoot and handle a gun, it'll hit what you're shooting at just about as fast as you can pull the trigger without forcing you to reaquire your target after every shot.
IMHO, my all-steel EG Makarov is just too big and too heavy for front pocket concealment though. I tried it once and my wife hit me with that great old Mae West line: "Do you think I'm attractive, or is that a gun in your pocket?"
My EG Mak was originally used by the Stasi (E. German Secret Police) for undercover/detective/other secret police type work. It came complete with its shoulder holster when I purchased it. The gun was in absolutely beautiful condition but its holster was the cheapest-looking POS I ever saw. I dumped the holster immediately and bought new. But shoulder holster carry was and is this guns special niche, in my opinion.
pythagorean
Moderator
I voted yes. I think there is a difference in "concealed" versus "open carry" by far.
A concealed situation means it is ALWAYS with you--no worries about size, clothing, weather, ease of carry.
Go light. Go small. Go reliable.
The bullets (no matter how small or large) in a handgun rely on placement more than anything else.
A concealed situation means it is ALWAYS with you--no worries about size, clothing, weather, ease of carry.
Go light. Go small. Go reliable.
The bullets (no matter how small or large) in a handgun rely on placement more than anything else.
I first bought a pistol in 9x18 when .380 was impossible to find. I got a CZ-82. With the high magazine capacity, reasonable recoil, great accuracy, good trigger and compact size, it is often my carry pistol. After playing around with various ammo brands/types, I now shoot only Silver Bear JHPs. They aren't expensive so I practice with the pistol regularly.
Having shot a lot of 9x18 and 9mm rounds into various media, I have found that the 9x18 is not far off of 9mm performance. With the Silver Bear JHP, I get a little less expansion but nearly the same penetration as with a 9mm JHP. With +P 9mm ammo, the difference is a good bit greater. The 9mmMak is definitely stouter than .380, although the '+P' loadings I have tried come fairly close.
So, while I carry a P-3AT or PF-9 quite often, when capacity is more important than ultra-light weight, I take the CZ-82. It has become my ‘go to’ HD pistol also, since I have such confidence in both the pistol and the cartridge.
Some folks may think they need a bigger gun; I think they need more practice.
Having shot a lot of 9x18 and 9mm rounds into various media, I have found that the 9x18 is not far off of 9mm performance. With the Silver Bear JHP, I get a little less expansion but nearly the same penetration as with a 9mm JHP. With +P 9mm ammo, the difference is a good bit greater. The 9mmMak is definitely stouter than .380, although the '+P' loadings I have tried come fairly close.
So, while I carry a P-3AT or PF-9 quite often, when capacity is more important than ultra-light weight, I take the CZ-82. It has become my ‘go to’ HD pistol also, since I have such confidence in both the pistol and the cartridge.
Some folks may think they need a bigger gun; I think they need more practice.
bdb benzino
New member
This^^^, me too. There are outstanding deals to be had on line for this ammo, and I also like being able to afford practicing with the same ammo I carry!
Pond James Pond
New member
I once started a thread along the same lines. In an attempt to not get side-tracked by the guns that shot the carrtidges I gave a hypothetical situation that only dealt with the cartridges.
Have a read here if you're interested.
Have a read here if you're interested.
Crankgrinder
New member
delusions of grandeur... a hahahahahahahaha
cant quit laughing
cant quit laughingAguila Blanca
Staff
Delete - sorry
longknife12
New member
The ones that I saw that had been used were very effective!
Dan
Dan