magazine drops

I can respect the power of habit, but there are reasons to do a tactical reload as opposed to a slide lock or emergency reload. If I have the time/distance and presence of mind, it makes sense to do a tactical reload. Doing so may prevent me from having to do an emergency reload. With practice it's possible to build more than one habit.

Now obviously Haley has more experience than me. But Haley isn't the only instructor. At some point when getting instruction we have to evaluate what works best for us. For me while I know emergency reloads may be more likely, I still practice tactical reloads.
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I'm sure there is a time and place for a retention reload. I just don't trust myself enough to practice multiple ways of doing things. I like to keep my training very simple and take the most advantage of whatever time and practice I have.
 
Magazines are a wear item.
I have cracked a couple of floorplates, one plastic, one aluminum, dropping a magazine on concrete. But that is out of numerous magazines, with a lot of speed or emergency reloads and the empty clip let to fall where it may.
 
Before we switched to PMAGs, I can't tell you how many times I have been issued magazines with the word "BAD" written down the side in sharpie. I made it a habit, and passed this habit on to all of my Marines that non working magazines were to be smashed beyond repair in a "training accident" before being turned in to the armory for a swap.

I do train for all the three types of reloads mentioned, and I do firmly believe in the tac reload if you have the time and space.

There are a lot of things you can do at the range if you are there "shooting" instead of "training" that build bad habits. Recognizing these and doing things correctly if you are shooting will carry over and you'll see increased benefits when training. This includes reloads. My muscle movements for reloads are identical with the exception of racking the slide (I do not use the slide stop lever to send it home). The tac reload is slightly different based on retention, but my "admin" and speed reloads look very similar. Speed reloads? That magazine is getting out of the pistol as fast as possible. If it hangs up I rip it out with the edge of its replacement, which greatly accelerates its trip to the ground (I had some 1911 magazines that were soaked in blood due to a finger having some bad interactions with the slide.... they were hanging up) , never really had an issue with magazines hitting the ground. As soon as they became problematic they got new parts (personal magazines) or destroyed (issued).

I make the differentiation between shooting and training based on personal experience. If I am there to train, my stress level is already starting to elevate and I put forth 100% effort until it is done. If I am there to shoot, I am there to enjoy myself. Not that I don't enjoy a day of training, but if I was doing that every time I went to the range I would be an empty shell, devoid of joy.
 
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Tactical reloads are fine for soldiers, LE and folks that play gun games, but your chances of needing to do a tactical reload in a SD/HD situation are far less than your chances of being hit by falling space debris.
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This and so many other things are so wrong to tell someone.


You're assuring them they never have to reload. You don't know that. It could be to fix a malfunction for all you know.

Please, if you carry one magazine and think you'll never reload, that fine. Don't misinform others.

"Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it." - The entire reason for citizen concealed carry.
 
Tactical Jackalope said:
This and so many other things are so wrong to tell someone.


You're assuring them they never have to reload. You don't know that. It could be to fix a malfunction for all you know.

Please, if you carry one magazine and think you'll never reload, that fine. Don't misinform others.

"Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it." - The entire reason for citizen concealed carry.
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Misinform???

I suppose you have a link to some valid statistics about how often normal citizens need to do a tactical reload in a SD/HD situation????

And why would you allow yourself to get into a situation where you are in a running gun battle and need more than 15 rounds????

Maybe you need to work on reality, rather than "What if?"
 
Ben Dover said:
Misinform???

I suppose you have a link to some valid statistics about how often normal citizens need to do a tactical reload in a SD/HD situation????

And why would you allow yourself to get into a situation where you are in a running gun battle and need more than 15 rounds????

Maybe you need to work on reality, rather than "What if?"
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Not every situation is a choice, so not sure how much "allow" comes into it. Certainly awareness is important, but it isn't a guarantee.

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Well, yes. The rules of not going to stupid places, with stupid people, at stupid times is a golden rule.

But to entirely rule out the possibility based on some statistics? Remember there are instances where more ammunition has been used. Not everything has been recorded either.

Simmer lol.... Our realities may differ, that I can agree with. I just choose to not hinder myself.
 
Tactical Jackalope said:
Well, yes. The rules of not going to stupid places, with stupid people, at stupid times is a golden rule.

But to entirely rule out the possibility based on some statistics? Remember there are instances where more ammunition has been used. Not everything has been recorded either.

Simmer lol.... Our realities may differ, that I can agree with. I just choose to not hinder myself.
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Statistics and probabilities are certainly not absolute. But probabilities need to be taken into consideration.

I realize that a home invasion could possibly occur while I'm in the shower. But I don't wear my sidearm in the shower. My vehicle could possibly be hit by random gunfire while driving down the street. But I don't have my doors armored.

Personally, I believe that being hit by random fire is much more likely than needing to do a tactical reload.

OTOH, if you're comfortable with dropping expensive magaines on the ground, then more power to you. That's your choice, no matter what i think.

But please do not accuse me, or anyone else of spreading misinformation simply because we disagree with your view of probabilities.
 
Just hoping people won't get deterred by doing such things as that is how they will play out in the real world. (God forbid)

If you've seen the soda can challenge, you'll see that someone holding an item in their hand refuses to drop said item when it's time to go live in classes.

It's a training scar to always gently put the magazine back in it's pouch or range table that won't always be there if they need to clear a malfunction, need more ammunition, or top off to asses more potential threats.
 
Ben Dover said:
Personally, I believe that being hit by random fire is much more likely than needing to do a tactical reload.

OTOH, if you're comfortable with dropping expensive magaines on the ground, then more power to you. That's your choice, no matter what i think.
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Tactical reloads, as they're generally defined, involve retaining the magazine. Not dropping it. If you're worried about dropping magazines tactical reloads are the better option actually. I'd add though that dropping magazines with polymer baseplates generally results in scuff marks, not damage.

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Ben Dover said:
...I suppose you have a link to some valid statistics about how often normal citizens need to do a tactical reload in a SD/HD situation????
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Only statistic I worry about is the one involving me. I would hazard a guess that searching through all of the Armed Citizen columns might reveal one or two times a person had to reload out of thousands of encounters. Or it might reveal how poorly maintained magazines failed, clogged with dust bunnies and cat hair, and the firearm then ceased to function, requiring a magazine change, but then again, probably as few as the previous list.
I chose to attempt to alter as many factors in my favor as possible within reason. While, as you mentioned, uparmoring my vehicle might help me if driving through downtown Chicago, it is impractical for me to do so with the expense and weight. However, I can watch where I travel and take as many appropriate precautions as I can, like full gas tanks, emergency equipment, as well as a professionally maintained vehicle, and not planning night time excursions onto The Tenderloin, for example, or hanging out in Hells Kitchen overnight. I know my house may burn down before I need to use my defensive sidearm, but I have fire extinguishers, without having installed a full piped fire fighting sprinkler system, due to cost and the fact that my landlord might not be amused. Also getting into a running gun battle is exactly what happened in Texas with one man with AR15 vs madman. IS that likely to happen to me? Hardly, but he thought it wouldn't happen to him, either, before he stood up to defend his fellow men and women.
I make my decisions based on my perceived needs and wants, not on the usual statistics of others. Many millions of Americans have gone their whole life without ever carrying a defensive weapon more potent than an umbrella, but I made that conscious choice to do so myself, to carry spare magazines, to use quality defensive ammunition, to get as much professional training as my wallet will allow, (not much!), and practice as often as I can, while always following THEIR rules of behavior to reduce my possible chances of being in such a confrontation as I can, within reason. As always, your mileage may vary. :)
 
That's the beauty of a free country.

You can commit time and effort practing reloading, and I can devote that time and effort to marksmanship.

And we can both pray that we will never find out which of us was right!
 
Ben Dover said:
That's the beauty of a free country.

You can commit time and effort practing reloading, and I can devote that time and effort to marksmanship.

And we can both pray that we will never find out which of us was right!
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Being able to do reloads and having marksmanship abilities aren't mutually exclusive. You can practice reloads at home with or without snap caps without ever needing to step on a range.

There's always this narrative that has existed that people that carry pistols with more capacity or with backup magazines do so because they are poor shots. Heck it goes back to the days of repeating rifles. It's a falsehood. If you've decided that you don't need or want the extra capacity then more power to you, I don't care. But if you then portray it as you're going to be a better shot than those that have more capacity or carry spare magazines then I'm going to call bs.

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I've only destroyed a couple mags over a decade or so. One or two older 1911 mags decided to spontaneously deconstruct themselves, throwing parts across the firing line, and a 1911 mag got crushed when I body slammed it into a cinder block wall in an obstacle course (not the mag's fault there!)
 
Back in the old days when I carried a "cowboy" gun, i.e a revolver, I carried two speed loaders (18 rounds total) and practiced with them a lot. I felt well armed.

Now, I carry a semi-auto with 18 rounds in the weapon. I still feel well armed!:D
 
Ben Dover said:
Back in the old days when I carried a "cowboy" gun, i.e a revolver, I carried two speed loaders (18 rounds total) and practiced with them a lot. I felt well armed.



Now, I carry a semi-auto with 18 rounds in the weapon. I still feel well armed!:D
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That's great, it's the same vein. Nothing about that is counter to carrying a spare magazine, practicing with spare magazines, etc. Not every pistol has magazines with 18 rd of capacity. If someone is carrying a pistol with fewer rounds and wants to have more capacity it's similar to when you carried speed loaders. When malfunctions happen with a pistol sometimes being able to strip the magazine and go to another can be helpful.

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Ben Dover said:
That's the beauty of a free country.

You can commit time and effort practicing reloading, and I can devote that time and effort to marksmanship.

And we can both pray that we will never find out which of us was right!
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I most certainly agree it would be best if neither one of us ever had to use our defensive sidearms in a real shootout, that is the truth. I also train mag changes while doing marksmanship at the private range I shoot at 2 miles up the road from me - doesn't take more than a few seconds. ;) I've wasted more time changing channels than magazines. :D
Oh, I do reload - ammo, that is, so I can go to the range at least once a week. But that is a whole 'nother thread...
 
I'm enjoying this thread, because many of the opinions being expressed are exactly the same opinions that I held when i was much younger.

As the years go by, I find myself questioning long held beliefs, and changing my outlook on many things.

Not a matter of right or wrong, correct or incorrect, but more a matter of seeing things from a different perspective as I age.
 
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