M1911s... Maintenance nightmares?

I had a Colt Rail Gun... And just like the Springfield TRP Operator (rail, bull barrel, and adjustable sight.) I didn't care for the rail. I have a Springfield TRP now, and all I did was replace the FLGR with a GI rod and cap. Couldn't be happier with that 1911. No rail either. Just a personal preference.

Anyways, of all the 1911's I've owner. I wouldn't really say they're a "maintenance nightmare". There are just many more options out there that are lower maintenance. Don't ever let anyone tell you that a weapon need no maintenance or lube though. Cause that's insane.

I had a really high round count Colt 1911 Series 70.. And I could not find anyone to tune the extractor for me. I even bought a second Wilson Combat extractor in case they wanted to tell me that I needed a new one. And no luck. 3 gun smiths later, I sold it to the highest bidder.


The 1911 is definitely a professionals gun and is a Glock 17. One just may require more maintenance, the 1911. Which also doesn't necessarily have the drop in parts pitch like a Glock or any other modern weapon on the market does. Most things need to be tuned or fitted in order to function properly. Reason being, try finding a gun manufacturer that doesn't make some type of M1911 design pistol. Too many parts out there that aren't the same size: .220 vs .187 beaver tails, etc.



So, I have carried the 1911 before and I love the 1911. No trigger like it in the entire world and one of my favorite guns ever. I still carry one sometimes. I had no other gun for a while at some point and that's all I could carry too. They are a higher maintenance and you do need to pay attention to them. I just wouldn't call them a "nightmare."
 
Discussing "1911" is like discussing "car"; you are going to find various levels of quality, not necessarily correlating with price.

As noted, if the gun is made to spec, it will run and last for 100 years.
If the design has been "improved" by someone, with different specs or materials, or tolerances and dimensions have not been not maintained, then you are at the mercy of whomever made the changes.

Don't blame "1911" if some guy in Accounting thinks the gun will run as well with a $2 extractor as it did with the $5 part.
 
I've owned over two dozen 1911s and had significant issues with three of them. None of these were due to wear issues or involved maintenance. One was due to Kimber's poorly designed external extractor, which they no longer use. I had a bad experience with their service department. The second was due to the Kart barrel in a Sig being cut so the grain ran the wrong way. Sig quickly replaced it on their dime. The third was a Dan Wesson which had ejection issues traced to an out-of-spec feed ramp. DW re-cut it (on their dime) and the pistol has been reliable ever since.

I agree with what others have said about the lack of need to fully disassemble a 1911 for routine maintenance. You will normally only have to field strip. Less often, you will need to take take out the extractor and take out the firing pin and clean their respective channels. You do have to keep 1911s lubricated, especially the rails. But that's just putting a couple of drops of oil in the right places. Recoil and firing pin springs should be occasionally replaced (frequency depends on type of spring, length of barrel, and other factors). Other springs, not very often.

You will want to be able to recognize magazine feed related issues and be willing to buy new mags. You may also want to learn a little about your extractor. Most extractors are fine but it's nice to know when an extractor needs to be tensioned (erratic or poor extraction is an indicator) and how to tension one. It is not that big a deal.
 
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"...heard that 1911s need..." No moreso than any other firearm. Like all new firearms, unless you're buying something high priced like a race gun, 1911A1's need a trigger job, sometimes the feed ramp extended and not much else. Other than good ammo. Even the feed ramp thing is being done in the assorted factories now. Triggers still need doing though. Frivolous U.S. law suits.
"...the guns in general are just..." That's just not true.
"...Colt 1911A1 Series 70..." Mine is well over 30 and other than fixing my errors, the trigger job and sights, I've done exactly nothing to it. No extractors or mags issues not fixed by slightly altering my reloading technique.
 
Maint Nightmares?

I never thought so. But lets be clear, I make a distinction between "real" 1911/1911A1 guns and "1911 pattern" guns.

The 1911 pattern is one of the most "tinkered with" gun designs out there. Everybody and their Uncle Max is making "1911s", and many makers have "improved" the design, according to their own ideas.

Yes, its more complicated in many ways than guns designed 50 or 70+ years later. Apply today's standards (without allowances) to the 100+ year old basic design if you want. You won't be right, but you certainly can do it.

1911 mags seem especially prone to failures caused by weak mag spring and the springs in all of the 1911 mags I've tried seem to get to that point after about 500 rounds.
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For this, I would suggest trying different mags. They are NOT all created equal. I have an original 1911 mag (from the 1911, not the 1911A1) one of the two tone mags, it's had way over 500rnds through my personal use, who knows how many since it first left the factory, and its still one of the best working mags I own!!! (and it has the same spring in it that it had when I got it, DECADES ago.)

I'm not enamored of rails, beavertails, or the other bells & whistles. I've even outgrown the desire for extended controls (safety. slide release, etc). So I have very little interest in any NEW 1911 pattern gun.

I used the 1911A1 in the 70s and the Army trained me to work on them (MOS45B20 Small Arms Repairman). I handled and inspected a large number of 1911A1s (and a small number of 1911s still in service at the time). 95%+ of the ones that came into the repair shop were for the same thing. SIGHTS!!

Damage to the rear sight was the most common. Gun got dropped, concrete floor or steel deck, rear sight gets mashed. A few were for replacement/restaking of the front sight. Once in a while, grip screw bushing replacement or restaking.

Those guns had all been in service since 1945, or earlier. A few, MUCH earlier.

A couple of points to consider, first off, the gun was designed to run on one load, (230gr FMJ). They can be modified to work pretty well with other loads, but it takes a modification from GI specs to do this.

Second, The GI .45 got its reputation for reliability not because it always worked, no matter what. Nothing always works, no matter what. (GLock boys, sit back down please. I've had Glocks jam, too. NOTHING is perfect, no matter what they advertise)

The GI .45 got its reputation (now hugely overblown) because while they weren't perfect, they generally worked better, under worse conditions, than anything ELSE did.

Fires 230gr FMJ .45ACP rounds. Minute of man out to 50yds. 5,000rnd service life. That's what the govt asked for, and Browning delivered all that and a good bit more. If you want more than that, you are outside the original design requirements. You can do that, and have a very good gun, but don't fault the design itself if it doesn't give you what you want, beyond what it was built for.

DO they ALL need trigger jobs? I don't think so, I think it a matter of want, more than need.

Everybody, occasionally makes a lemon. Not the fault of the 1911 design when they do.

There are many guns today that are in some ways "better", there are many thought to be better. And yet, the 1911 pattern is the most copied (with many variants) design still today. If it didn't have a lot going for it, it wouldn't be...
 
They made a couple of million M1911A1's back a while, and the vast majority were issued right out of the box and they worked.

But with everybody but Hershey's Chocolate making 1911's (theirs is due out next week, in milk and bittersweet, almonds optional) and ammunition with every conceivable type and shape of bullet, it is not very surprising that there are problems. And don't forget that people promoting one brand will badmouth others, and people promoting gadgets will predict dire results if their gizmo is not installed immediately.

Still, the design is solid enough that given any reasonable care in material selection and production, most should run fine without any gunsmithing. Remember, this and the other gun sites get the complaints about how something didn't work; rarely does anyone report a gun that functioned flawlessly.

Jim
 
Not a nightmare, but not for people unwilling to either learn how to operate/maintain it or pay to have someone do it for them.

Out of box quality will depend on brand/model AND shooter's ability/desires.

Most i have felt will save a life out of box.

I feel many lower cost 1911s 'need' work on action parts as i feel something i don't like. My 3 shooting buddies can't feel a thing and find them just fine.

Different goals and different expectations.

Do not expect the GI RIA to be as smoothly fitted as a Dan Wesson at 4 times the cost. If you want fun/reliable/saving life- learn what others have identified and most 1911s are fine.

If you want to win 50yd bullseye contests, you will need to spend more to gain every advantage.

Howeved, it seems most accuracy issues are shooter related, and many newbies blame hardware instead.
 
1911s will function reliably and last a long time If everything is in spec. Ammunition has to be in spec, the gun and every part has to be within spec and fit each other properly, and the parts making the gun up must be precise and durable. Alot of manufacturers these days are slopping them together as quickly as possible and using material or procedures not up to standard. Extractors, ejectors, sears, and other parts that the companies cast into shape then go back and precision trim then heat treat. Some of these parts grain structures are not right or the heat treat was off then the part will only last 500-1000rds, but most of these parts should last over 5K rds fired if well maintained and good parts are used.

I have a Springfield Loaded model made in 2013 or 2014 that had zero malfunctions up until about round count 1300. But I believe it to be out of spec ammo or a dirty old magazine. I primarily use the included 7rd GI style Springfield magazines, and they were pretty dirty with about 400rds through each or more since cleaned. Also was using cheap "blemished" small company reloaded 230gr fmj rounds.

If someone tells you a 1911 is untrustworthy or not reliable enough for carry/duty/combat, they are blowing smoke. There are several tests on YouTube where a rock island 1911 was seriously abused and remained functional beyond belief.

My 1911 is one of my carry guns, and I chose Springfield for a reason. They are one the top rated and ranked for a mass produced 1911. And they are series 70 which is closer to original design. Colt and smith & Wesson and Dan Wesson are also some of the best regarded production lined guns.

My 1911 has had 2 malfunctions in 1500rds, both occurred with the same magazine and ammo and within 20rds apart from each other. I have a spare ed brown extractor for whenever mine kicks the bucket. I trust my life to the 1911 and rely on it for woods carry as well as personal defense in the city, and would count on it if I had to go into a firefight. I have used mainly fmj 230gr but have used small amounts of 230,200,220gr hollow points and 200gr swc lead target rds, also 185gr flat point fmj with no issues. I have one Wilson 7rd extended bottom mag that I hardly use because it was just so expensive. I use the springfields primarily but have a stainless 8rd limber mag that has given me zero issues. I typically load 5rds per mag when target shooting as it conserves ammo.

I have had 6 pistols total and currently have 2. The only one that ever malfunctioned was a revolver. I sold it. The 1911 is my favorite pistol of all, and a well made example is one of if not the most trust worthy automatics on the planet
 
1911's are easy to maintain....field strip is very easy / or even a full detail strip is easy -- and quick.

I maintain my guns ...that means they get field stripped and cleaned after every range trip. They're tools - they need attention and lube.
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My primary carry gun is a full sized Wilson Combat in 9mm, 5" barrel ...and its just over 10 yrs old and has around 115,000 rds thru it. It has had 2 significant failures... at around 40,000 rds the extractor broke../ at around 110,000 the plunger tube on left side ( holds a spring loaded part to hold slide lock open and thumb safety in place )...both repaired at no cost by Wilson ( last one, the gun came back to me in 13 calendar days including 2 day air freight both ways ).../ I shoot this gun a lot ! ( put 200 rds thru it last nite, with a variety of tactical drills, in and out of a holster ).

Recoil springs in my 1911's get changed about every 10,000 rds.
I replace the main spring ( hammer strut spring ) at about 30,000 rds.

Mags get taken apart and cleaned about one a month or about every 1,000 rds. If you keep your mags clean - they will rarely fail. But feed lips, etc on mags can spread and cause issues...the mags on any semi-auto, are the weakest link and most unreliable part of a semi-auto weapon in my view - that's why, I carry an extra mag on my belt.
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Not all 1911's are created equal ...there are good parts and bad parts...and some guns are tuned well - and some aren't. Most of the production guns...Colt, Kimber, Springfield...don't ever see a gunsmith in production...they get assembled and repaired under warranty if necessary. But its not common that they have issues right out of the box.

Some custom or semi-custom shops like Les Baer makes his guns too tight in my view....Wilson Combat makes their guns to run 100% out of the box. You cannot expect Wilson Combat reliability ...out of an $800 gun..but you might get it anyway. Some of my buddies shoot Kimbers and Springfields with very few issues. None of my buddies shooting Wilsons has had any more issues than I've had.
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A well made and well tuned 1911 is a great piece of craftmanship.../ on a budget I'm seeing some pretty good guns come out of Colt lately ...and out of the upper end models of Springfield like the TRP. I'm not a fan of the low end 1911's from RIA, etc...I think the steel in them is very suspect..and the quality of the machining is not there in my view - but I know guys say good things about them.
 
Model12Win said:
There is one thing that I've been running across, and that is that 1911s practically all need some level of gunsmithing to be reliable out of the box. How much truth is their to this?
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Not much.

What actually happens is that people buy nice, reliable new 1911s, then they decide to "improve" them (i.e. fix what wasn't broken) with some home-brew gunsmithing "tips" they learned from sumdood who heard them from his brother-in-law. The result is a paperweight ... so they blame the manufacturer for selling unreliable firearms.
 
If you go with a good brand like Colt, you will be fine.

I've owned ten 1911s of various makes since the mid '90s and only two had issues. They were not issues caused by the design but rather cheap manufacturing mistakes like bad heat treat or holes not drilled right. Those two 1911s were from lower tier companies, RIA and Auto Ordnance. It cost more to build a 1911 due to the amount of hand fitting the design requires. If you stay above $700, you will have less chance that corners were cut.

I still have my first 1911, Colt 1991A1, it is still reliable and I have around 6000 rnds thru it. I still use the original 7 rnd magazine it came with and a MecGar 7 rnd mag that I bought in '98. Same springs.
 
I will say this much, I am not at all happy with the trigger on the Colt I just bought my son for his birthday. It has easily 3/16ths of an inch of creep and pulling the trigger must be done with 'purpose' so to speak. Aside from the trigger it seems to be a good quality pistol, as it should be.
I'll not fire it before I give it to him, but I bet I'll find a way to improve the trigger either via a smith or me myself.
In all fairness to Colt, my only comparison is a Kimber that I own which has a phenomenal trigger, no creep, crisp, and light. The quality of the Colt trigger is dismal by comparison, but certainly something that can be improved.
 
Turkeestalker,

I went to a gunshow about 4 months ago and handled a nib Colt 1991 stainless. The trigger on it was plastic and weak and had a ton of play in all directions. It put a bad taste in my mouth about the modern colts. Although I am sure they used the trigger to save money on for a good reason. I would rather get a junky trigger than anything else if the company had to make profit acceptable and use a low quality part or two.

That said I believe Colt and Springfield are the only two sub $1000 dollar pistols which have forged frame and slides.
 
Woe! You're right P71pilot, I believe this is a plastic trigger! Pity.... well like I said.... certainly something that can be improved!
 
Colt hasn't used plastic trigger shoes in years. If it is a 1991, it is aluminum. If you saw a 1991 with a plastic shoe, it was a real old one.
 
I was an owner of multiple expensive 1911s. About all I have to say is I dumped the 1911 platform in favor of the Glock for my 45 auto pistol. I was never fully satisfied with the reliability of mine.

I still have an older 1911 of original design that runs pretty good, I only shoot 230 grain ammo in it, ball ammo or the Winchester 230 grain HP, that's all I run in it.
 
Turkeestalker,

No big deal, the trigger is one of the easiest parts to replace on the 1911. I replaced mine on my pistol and it was fairly easy just took about 30min of filing and checking.

I have a Harrison designs extreme duty short black trigger on mine and love it. Super comfortable. Nice and short for my medium sized mitts.

I love the 1911 and respect the heck out of Colt.I would have gotten one myself but they were more expensive for less features and I have heard of less problems with springfields.
 
Oh I forgot to include-

My 1911 (springfield loaded model) will run fine with oil or grease, and I have gone as far as 400rds with zero cleaning or re-lubing and it functioned just fine. My pistol will run dry and dirty from carbon. However my dad has a kimber custom 2 5" 1911 that will not run dry at all. As soon as the oil is evaporated or burnt up it starts to choke.

I used to use white lithium grease until I saw a test In which it degraded at only about 200 degrees. Most gun oils do much better than that. And I think I will try to find a natural grease that has a higher thermal breakdown. I prefer grease over oil and don't want to use like wheel bearing grease or something similar just because it is full of so much nasty stuff and is bad for you
 
And I think I will try to find a natural grease that has a higher thermal breakdown.
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I'm not sure what a "natural grease" is - but, here's a grease rated from -100F to +750F - LINK

I've used it on a variety of guns for years and have never had a malfunction caused by the grease thickening from cold or baking onto parts.
 
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