Luci's Bicentennial Minute on Illegal Immigration

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As for Wild's requests...I really couldn't care less. I try to keep him on ignore but this software or my current comp keeps bumping people off my list... Just life on the net...
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Putting me on an ignore list is a taciti admission that my positions are usually correct :)

Funny how when people don't march in lock step with you their position always has to be based on racism or hatred or stupidity, Wildy. At least, that's how you always try to characterize it.
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You know something...you are right....

On these issues (illegal immigration etc) I do see a lot of rascism, hatred and stupidity. Bet if it was white English speaking Canadians crossing the border in droves you wouldnt see some of the vituperation....but hey its not correct to kick around Christ killin money grubbin Jew immigrants and swarthy lazy criminal italians any more because they are already here....we need a new demon.....the brown mestizo from the pampas....!!!!! Toss the criminal wetbacks out.

You want immigration solutions, analyze RLs post in terms of political solutions rathewr than sound bites

Its a changing world. Us palefaces dominated the planet by virtue of our "superior" culture and blatantly superior technology. Now we dont have that lead any more. Deal with it, the brown and yellow folks speaking indecipherable tounges and or Spanish are taking over. Me, I'm doing my part to create a new line of folks in the continual evolution of this planet by marrying SWMBO......:D

Wildchowmeinandtacosanyone?Alaska
 
Because some people just don't read:

Allow me to repost paragraph three from my opening post:

Now, lest any might be uncasing your violins over my bleeding heart, let me make myself clear: I'm in favor of a wall; I'm in favor of deportation; and I'm totally against amnesty....there are simply too many foreigners legally waiting on the process to allow 12 million to slide into the front of the line.
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OhKayyy?
 
I do not see aggressive debate as automatically "uncivil". If you do then we should probably just stop now.

Labeling:

Otherwise admit that this is simple opinion so that we may dismiss you, given the selected specificity of those in your sights and the pure venom of your stereotype descriptions.
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We can argue whether it is opinion, I suppose. But there is no venom in it, nor is it stereotyping. Any venom is purely aimed at the opposition of the moment, and I admit to having had a very rough week.

You did not include the word "research" until after your initial question. As such my reply regarded the subject I am addressing HERE, in this thread. NOT the broader topic of what I have learned OR the broader topic of illegal "immigration" as a whole. As such, again, I never said they were the only ones, I said that is the subject material which I am addressing here and in re-reading it yet again it STILL seems plain to me. If it was not then I apologize.

My foot has been no where near my mouth. OTOH yours seems to be flirting with disaster...

Your comparison to the MMM, McVeigh, whatever, is facile. Are there interviews and websites from across a decade and two nations or more supporting either? Did the MMM manage to have a nationwide day of protest where people actually particpated in the millions? And of the relatively tiny number who did rally for the MMM, were the vast majority criminals issuing demands?

Sorry, while my insight is indeed NOT overwhelming it is sufficient to see that a sizeable segment of a criminal element(and let's get that definition out here: Every single person not here thru legal channels is a criminal, period) has some serious issues which include: A lack of respect for the nation they invaded, the legitimate Citizens of that nation, that nation's laws, history, government, borders and security. If you insist on saying, again, that I mean ALL then ya know what?

Fine.

I don't care because the fact is I want them all gone no matter what they feel or say or what their work ethic is because they are criminal and we have ways of doing things and if they can't follow the rules then screw them and their bloody enablers. That means deport every one caught in a traffic accident, any crime, seeking medical care, picked up while seeking or at work, or hiding in an apartment. It means actually spending the time and money and manpower to do these things and I don't care how nice they are or where their kid was born.

I'll dig up some of that research...

Lump all of who together now? Immigrants? Hardly? Illegals? Hardly, again, at least in the sense YOU are trying to posit but see above. I DON'T CARE. I want them gone. Let them follow the rules and try to come back. How nice they are or how industrious doesn't matter any more than how nice and industrious the guy currently creeping in your window is at any other time than right now... Get it? You wouldn't be making excuses for him, don't make them elsewhere else you appear a hypocrite.

Again, your comparisons lack any credibility. If all the homosexuals were here illegally and all the blacks were here illegally I'd be making the same call because of that illegality. NOT because of your racist/homophobic fantasy rationale. But they are not, so the rest of the comparison is useless.

Me? I'd prefer to sterilize all adults with double digit IQ's...and the population is apparently growing.
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I thought you said you hoped for civil debate? But in that vein, will you be starting with yourself?
 
Putting me on an ignore list is a taciti(sic) admission that my positions are usually correct
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No, it means I have long found you to be unpleasant, a perception elsewhere proven correct to my satisfaction. As such, back into limbo you go and if Rich wants he can delete this reply to you, though I assume since the rest above remains this will be sufficiently relevant yet "PC"...
 
Any venom is purely aimed at the opposition of the moment, and I admit to having had a very rough week.
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We noticed. :)
You did not include the word "research" until after your initial question.
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Correct. In fact, I only "introduced" it after you referred to your own. You later confirmed that by announcing:
"My research goes back a decade on this issue. I was watching it develop long before it was ever headline news. I was saying on forums 6 years ago that this issue and land grabs would be the key issues that defined where this country goes, not guns or abortion. While I missed energy(I thought the center would hold longer) two outta three ain't bad."

Since that claim of soothsayer history, I've simply been reacting to the scree. You're the self proclaimed scholar on the issue. I'm simply challenging the scholarship. You had it coming when you hung your shield out in the above statement.

Your comparison to the MMM, McVeigh, whatever, is facile. Are there interviews and websites from across a decade and two nations or more supporting either?
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In the case of the MMM and BPP, yes, there certainly have been interviews and websites for a decade or more; also, in the case of McVeigh....websites that indicate OKC was a government plot....probably owned by those scummy Gun Lovers. Must they be "international" for us to conclude that they, too, "ARE lazy criminals intent on a free ride and worse"?

I don't care because the fact is I want them all gone
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I think I said the same thing...twice. I just did it without vituperative stereotype, barely concealed hatred and barely contained glee. I said it with an understanding that they all hardly "ARE lazy criminals intent on a free ride and worse". I said it with an understanding that we've taken from many as much as we gave. I've said it with a modicum of compassion and responsibility, yet no less insistence that they go than you.

So, where's the beef?
Rich
 
You're aware scholar also means student, right? So instead of the intended insult of implying I am claiming to be all-knowing on this you just reaffirmed the spirit of what I actually intended: Research as an ongoing effort of learning... Thx. :)

Yeah, international is a decent indicator. But jut regular and consistent soundbytes across time and distance is pretty good, too. Meanwhile you dodged the whole point of millions of criminal rallyers...

The beef is your idea of compassion is purposeless. We haven't taken from them. Certainly not to the degree they have taken from us. You and I haven't taken anything. A small number of greedy US criminals may have taken their time, but the illegals have taken from essentially every US Citizen, in varied costs and expenses, etc.

What's the issue of this "compassion"? Illegals ARE criminals. I do NOT see you putting forth any effort to explain the motivations, justify the actions or defend the results of our own criminals, whatever their crime may be. They are criminals and, as I said, often lazy and offering little or nothing in return. Sure, some are not, but so what? Noting such doesn't change anything when the pickpocket's hand is in your pocket and your wallet is about to take an unexpected journey.

They're criminals. I have no interest in dignifying them. If they want to come back, once we dump their happy asses, through legal means THEN we can talk about respect. Until then the fact they are not all scum is as pointless as the fact not every robber is a cretin beneath contempt. He's still earned the label and the punishment.
 
Increasingly the behavoir and demands show that [highlight]the majority[/highlight] of illegal invaders(they are not immigrants) ARE lazy criminals intent on a free ride [highlight]and worse.[/highlight]
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Highlighting is mine.

Enough with the tap-dancing around the subject. You have stated that the majority of illegal immigrants are here for worse than a free ride.

Your words, as seen above.

I'd like to see the proof of this assertation. Provide links or references, of your kindness.

LawDog
 
I hear the calls for mass deportation. This will never happen nor is it possible.

Walls and fences? Maybe, that does nothing for those already here or the massive wave of illegal aliens which would enter while this magic wall is being built. It was mentioned before, at least there is an abundance of cheap labor in the areas where the fence is to be built.:o

Without incentive and consequences nothing will change. There must be incentive for the Hispanic immigrants to legitimize their presence here. When enough have become documented the ones who refuse are much easier to locate and deport/jail/isolate.

I agree there should be penalties for employers who hire illegal aliens. We must first provide a system for the employers to determine if the person is using fictitious documentation. If a SS# is issued to Jose Ramirez and you have a man calling himself Jose Ramirez what good is a credit bureau going to do? Finger print ID, retinal scans, something??

In addition US policy toward Mexico should change to include no more preferential treatment without massive reform including private property rights for Mexican citizens. If Mexican citizens could own a piece of Mexico many would opt to stay, IMO.

Visceral hatred and blanket statements are not going to fix this problem. A realistic plan must be made and followed through with.
 
millions of criminal rallyers
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You've now mentioned this twice. I gave you a pass on the first, but you evidently mistook kindness for weakness....it was neither. Kindly demonstrate these "millions of criminals" that rallied. I'll even count citizens, students and socialists toward that tally. News reports abound, replete with estimates.

Bring 'em on. I want to see no more back peddling on [apparently] testosterone induced claims. I now demand numbers, at the risk of your very credibility. Where were these "millions"? Simple deal for any real researcher (or, as you now describe yourself, "student"):
- Here's the Report
- Here's the Numbers
- Here's the Total

It's hardly an issue of substance; it's every bit an issue of credibility, since these "millions" are so very important to you. Demonstrate that credibility or begone from this discussion....it was dedicated to rationality; not hype nor Angry Self-Dispossessed White Man rhetoric.

Ante Up, NOW.
Rich
 
My credibility isn't in question. It's an internet BB's where opiniions get quashed all the time. Credibility isn't an issue. The fact remains, we have, what, 13 million illegals in the US? Are you publicly claiming none of these illegals attended none of these recent (and not so recent) rallies? If you are then yeah, we may need to talk about credibility issues. If you aren't then there's utterly no need for me to dig up a single thing, now is there?

Lawdog, I'll tapdance around any subject I please. OTOH, if you yourself have not referred in the past to criminals as lazy SOB's in search of the "easy path" then maybe you have a point. If you have, then you just have hypocrisy and a need to explain why THESE criminals are so different in the minds of some few of you.

Pip, love to hear why deportation is impossible? It may well NOT happen, but it IS possible. Not overnight, certainly, but I haven't seen anyone state a specific time limit yet. If it does not happen it will be because our politicos, once again, failed to grow spines.
 
Involuntary deportation is impossible because of the sheer numbers. You said 13 million in your last post. Do you realize how many people that is? Without enacting Marshall Law and going house to house it is impossible. More will come in on a daily basis than can be exported.

Additionally if you remove the stake the Mexican people have in the success of the US you will create an enemy far more dangerous than Islamic terrorists.

Illegals must be willing to legitimize at this late date. There must be consequences for those who don't.
 
http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=13521

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060501/ap_on_re_us/immigration_boycott_day

http://mensa-barbie.blogspot.com/2006/04/illegals-leave-environmental-damage.html

http://www.desertinvasion.us/reports/hull_border_env_damage.html

http://www.tucsonweekly.com/gbase/Currents/Content?oid=oid:66509

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/printer-friendly.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48161

http://www.washingtontimes.com/metro/20040922-100007-3972r.htm

http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20041206-102115-6766r.htm

http://www.couplescompany.com/features/politics/IllHealth.htm

http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_1_the_illegal_alien.html

http://www.newswithviews.com/Cosman/madeleine.htm

Ya know, this is kind of fun. Note I dragged in links from a variety of sources and locations. Would you like more? Categorized? I can do that, just takes longer. The news stories and stats are staggering. From crime to enviromental damage to insurance to ER's and more, including illegals at rallies...

But feel free to change my mind...
 
Pip, concentrate first on their employers. Deport all that are caught and shut down those employers. Arrest and deport all medical cases. Same with all auto accidents, etc. Check and deport student's parents...and the students...

It's a problem that took years to develop. Removing it will almost certainly take years as well. The only "quick fix" is the politically expedient one the politicos want and they want it because it is quick, not effective NOR final.

As for creating an enemy, I refuse that logic. If I stop any other criminal I create an enemy. I run the risk of incurring the wrath of his family and even his friends. Would you even think of telling me to allow myself to be a victim, or consider I have a right to tell you to be one? I doubt it. If the result is Mexico wants to become belicose, well, we'll just have to deal with that at the time. One more reason this problem should have been taken care of long ago.

Note, what you are implying about these fine, upstanding criminals is far worse than what I have said about them. I just think the majority, like most criminals, are after the free ride. You're saying they have terrorist potential. If that's true then we need their sorry butts out even moreso, don't we.
 
Shoulda known Morris Dees would slither into this somewhere. This Nethercott story may deserve it's very own entire post...

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2005/08/gaza_in_arizona.html

Hmmm...

http://www.jpfo.org/unpopularsp-worden-casey.htm

If you can stand to actually go to Dees' site...

http://www.splcenter.org/legal/news/article.jsp?site_area=1&aid=125 (it's creative)

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46555

I just realized, from all the media shouting on this story, ol' Casey was a "militia member". Wooo Boy! That's all we need to know, ain't it.
 
Incarcerated illegals

Some figures from Newsmax archives. Purported to be Justice Dept. figures from 2003.

2003 -- # of illegals serving time: 270,000.

Calif. prison population: 108,000.

Percentage of Calif. prison population who are illegals: 50%

Cost to house these prisoners to Calif. taxpayers: $1,620,000,000 @ $30,000 per prisoner per year. California spends twice as much per prisoner as Texas with a comparable prison population.
 
Not to throw fuel on this fire, but California recently proposed immediate deportation of 20,000 illegal prisoners to Mexico, but it was shot down. Legislators believed that they would be released on their return, and come right back over the border.

Control the border, then work on the rest of this mess.
 
I have said it before and I will say it again. Use the illegals that are in our prison system and have them build a realy big wall.

When your sink starts overflowing, what is the first thing you do? SHUT OFF THE SOURCE!! Even if you could snap your fingers and deport every illegal immigrant in the country, but do not change border security(and not just the southern one) they will all find their way back.

2nd-
Take a deep breath. Those are some good links. People wanted sources, you gave em.
 
You're saying they have terrorist potential. If that's true then we need their sorry butts out even moreso, don't we.
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I'm saying if you take away 13+ million peoples hopes for a better future look for retaliation.
 
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