Exactly. This is the only safe way to decock a modern S&W revolver, if the hammer slips while you are holding the trigger back the gun WILL fire. Your thumb is in front of the hammer to prevent this until you remove your index finger completely off the trigger. Other revolvers and antiques, I don't know, depends.
lowering the hammer down?
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Exactly. This is the only safe way to decock a modern S&W revolver, if the hammer slips while you are holding the trigger back the gun WILL fire. Your thumb is in front of the hammer to prevent this until you remove your index finger completely off the trigger. Other revolvers and antiques, I don't know, depends.
45 Dragoon
New member
Again, poor ol one handed folks , guess S&W has no use for um.
This whole thread is like arguing why boar hogs have things they don't need!
(The " old guys" know about this one, lol)
Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
This whole thread is like arguing why boar hogs have things they don't need!
(The " old guys" know about this one, lol)
Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
Dave Chuppa
New member
My previous response was wrong. I hold the hammer back, squeeze trigger, and lower hammer slowly.
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45 Dragoon
New member
Must be "something else" AK, you're kickin the can on down the road.
There's more than one way to do most things. If some have been doing what still works for most of their lives, why do others "insist" they change depending on the gun used? It just adds another degree of a possible accident (because "it was new to me" kind of thing) when the old simple way would work just fine.
Safe is safe no matter how it's done.
Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
Damnit Hawg! I could saved some typing ! Well said!
(I'm slow and get distracted easily!!)
There's more than one way to do most things. If some have been doing what still works for most of their lives, why do others "insist" they change depending on the gun used? It just adds another degree of a possible accident (because "it was new to me" kind of thing) when the old simple way would work just fine.
Safe is safe no matter how it's done.
Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
Damnit Hawg! I could saved some typing ! Well said!
(I'm slow and get distracted easily!!)
Driftwood Johnson
New member
INTERNET BS!?!? Excuse me, but I have been lowering the hammer on a revolver the way I illustrated it since I bought my first Cap & Ball revolver in 1968. You can do the math on how long that has worked for me. Internet BS my eye!
Did anybody notice there is no firing pin on the hammer in that S&W manual? Try doing that sometime with a traditional revolver that has the firing pin in the hammer. Not very convenient, and it would probably be painful.
Here are a few photos that may be useful to this discussion. At the top of this photo is the hammer from a S&W Military and Police revolver made around 1917. Compare the profile of the hammer to the modern profile on a Model 14-3 made in 1973.
Here is a photo of the two hammers showing more detail.
Admittedly, the knurling on the older hammer is not very deep. On an old gun with a lot of wear the knurling can be almost worn away. Now compare that to the configuration of the newer hammer. This is a typical short throw hammer that S&W has been using ever since shortly after WWII. Not only is the knurling incredibly deep and sharp, there is a deep hollow between the hammer spur and the main body of the hammer. This hammer was designed specifically to help eliminate the thumb slipping off the hammer. With the older style, if your hands are sweaty it is feasible that the thumb could slip off the hammer, allowing it to fall. With the newer design, you would have to work at it for that hammer to slip out from under your grasp. That deep hollow is there so the tip of the thumb can roll into it as the hammer is lowered. Your thumb never looses contact with the hammer. I can lower a hammer like this on the hottest, sweatiest day with no problem at all.
Here is the MIM hammer on a modern S&W Model 617. Same basic design, deep knurling and a deep hollow in front of the hammer spur.
Now let's look at a couple of Colts. The top one in this photo is an Army Special made in 1921. The one at the bottom is an Official Police (essentially the same model as the Army Special) made in 1963. Notice the difference in the two profiles.
Here are the same two revolvers showing more detail. The older Colt has a hammer profile very similar to the older Smith. The newer Colt also has a deeper gullet in front of the hammer spur, and deeper cut knurling. Again, designed so the thumb is less likely to slip off the hammer even on a hot sweaty day.
My point is, once you have learned how to lower the hammer on a revolver with one hand, particularly if it is a relatively modern gun, there is little chance your thumb is going to slip off the hammer. And you should be pointing it in a safe direction anyway, right?
************
Yes, I learned how to lower the hammer on a revolver after watching Matt Dillon do it hundreds of times on TV. And Maverick, Roy Rodgers, Hoppy, Cheyenne, Sugarfoot, Wyatt Earp, and I don't remember who else. When I bought that C&B revolver back in 1968 it took about five minutes to perfect lowering the hammer without loosing control of it. Same thing with my Dad's Winchester Model '06 that I had been shooting even longer. It is not difficult. And I agree with DPris, it is simpler and requires fewer fine motor skills to learn to do it with one hand than to try to learn how to do it with two hands.
Regarding defeating the transfer bar on a Ruger, of course the transfer bar is defeated if you hold the trigger back. But I am not in favor of learning one technique for Smiths and Colts, and another technique for Rugers. Pulling the trigger and lowering the hammer works just fine for all of them. One simple technique for all.
Dfariswheel
New member
Back in the late 60's my old gun club allowed the local FBI agent to give a day class to local sheriff and city cops.
I was assigned to monitor the use of the range.
He was a former FBI Firearms Instructor at Quantico.
He taught the FBI method of putting the left thumbnail between the frame and the firing pin, then pulling the trigger and lowering the hammer until the firing pin was on the nail.
Then let go of the trigger and lower the hammer the rest of the way.
By the time the hammer is on the thumbnail the hammer blocking safety was blocking the hammer from striking the primer.
I was assigned to monitor the use of the range.
He was a former FBI Firearms Instructor at Quantico.
He taught the FBI method of putting the left thumbnail between the frame and the firing pin, then pulling the trigger and lowering the hammer until the firing pin was on the nail.
Then let go of the trigger and lower the hammer the rest of the way.
By the time the hammer is on the thumbnail the hammer blocking safety was blocking the hammer from striking the primer.
orionengnr
New member
I may be "special" but in all my years of handling S&W revolvers, I've never cocked...and then decided to de-cock...a DA revolver.
Not sure how one finds oneself in that position...but some do, and that is why so many issue guns had the hammer spur removed, and the SA sear removed.
Honestly, I don't think I have fired more than 5-6 rounds single action through the probably 30 S&W revolvers I've owned over the years. If I can't shoot it reasonably DA, I won't carry it, and probably shouldn't own it.
IMHO, it is not a good habit to develop, and I never did.
At the range? If it's cocked, fire it off at the paper.
If you're hunting...I guess you might cock in anticipation of a shot, and not have it transpire. And then you'd have that issue...but point it at the ground, fumble-fork your way through your decock and at worst, alert every animal and human within a mile of your error. Still harmless.
While cleaning or doing a 6-month rub down an unloaded "safe gun", I have been known to cock and de-cock while rubbing some CLP on each part of the cylinder.
Not sure how one finds oneself in that position...but some do, and that is why so many issue guns had the hammer spur removed, and the SA sear removed.
Honestly, I don't think I have fired more than 5-6 rounds single action through the probably 30 S&W revolvers I've owned over the years. If I can't shoot it reasonably DA, I won't carry it, and probably shouldn't own it.
IMHO, it is not a good habit to develop, and I never did.
At the range? If it's cocked, fire it off at the paper.
If you're hunting...I guess you might cock in anticipation of a shot, and not have it transpire. And then you'd have that issue...but point it at the ground, fumble-fork your way through your decock and at worst, alert every animal and human within a mile of your error. Still harmless.
While cleaning or doing a 6-month rub down an unloaded "safe gun", I have been known to cock and de-cock while rubbing some CLP on each part of the cylinder.
Driftwood Johnson
New member
Smith and Wesson and their academy are allowing the lawyers to dictate policy. A company like that has millions of dollars to lose if somebody screws up and then sues.
The lawyers aren't interested in preventing negligent discharges. They just don't want Smith and Wesson to be held responsible.
On another note, with my Rossi lever action I can't hold the hammer back and then pull the trigger. The trigger won't move unless the hammer is in the normal cocked position. I am having to fiddle with getting the feel for that.
On another note, with my Rossi lever action I can't hold the hammer back and then pull the trigger. The trigger won't move unless the hammer is in the normal cocked position. I am having to fiddle with getting the feel for that.
Ruger includes a manual decocking process in their DA revolver manuals.
Ruger also includes a decocking procedure for their SA revolvers.
1. Make certain that the revolver is pointed in a safe direction.
2. Make certain both hands are dry and not impeded in any way -gloves, bandages, cold, etc.
3. Grasp the revolver (if right handed) so that the thumb and forefinger of your left hand are firmly holding the frame, forward of the trigger guard. Thus your left hand is in full control of the revolver (There's a figure in the instructions showing this position.)
4. Place your right thumb firmly on the hammer spur and, with your thumb securely in control of the hammer, squeeze the trigger only enough to permit the hammer to "break free" of the trigger. At that instant, IMMEDIATELY RELEASE THE TRIGGER and then slowly permit the hammer, STILL SECURE UNDER YOUR THUMB, to move fully forward to its resting position against the frame. NOTE: It is imperative that finger pressure be removed from the trigger just as soon as it is free of the hammer. Then, properly, the trigger and hammer will move towards their fully forward rest positions together. (There's another figure for this.)
Practice this important gun handling skill with an unloaded revolver until you have developed the proper control and "touch" to decock your revolver safely. The key to safe decocking is having the weight of the revolver controlled with one hand, while the thumb and forefinger of the "shooting hand" control the hammer and trigger. Improperly restraining the trigger during this procedure may result in the hammer not resting fully against the frame. If this should occur, carefully repeat the procedure for decocking, steps 1-4 again.
2. Make certain both hands are dry and not impeded in any way -gloves, bandages, cold, etc.
3. Grasp the revolver (if right handed) so that the thumb and forefinger of your left hand are firmly holding the frame, forward of the trigger guard. Thus your left hand is in full control of the revolver (There's a figure in the instructions showing this position.)
4. Place your right thumb firmly on the hammer spur and, with your thumb securely in control of the hammer, squeeze the trigger only enough to permit the hammer to "break free" of the trigger. At that instant, IMMEDIATELY RELEASE THE TRIGGER and then slowly permit the hammer, STILL SECURE UNDER YOUR THUMB, to move fully forward to its resting position against the frame. NOTE: It is imperative that finger pressure be removed from the trigger just as soon as it is free of the hammer. Then, properly, the trigger and hammer will move towards their fully forward rest positions together. (There's another figure for this.)
Practice this important gun handling skill with an unloaded revolver until you have developed the proper control and "touch" to decock your revolver safely. The key to safe decocking is having the weight of the revolver controlled with one hand, while the thumb and forefinger of the "shooting hand" control the hammer and trigger. Improperly restraining the trigger during this procedure may result in the hammer not resting fully against the frame. If this should occur, carefully repeat the procedure for decocking, steps 1-4 again.
Ruger also includes a decocking procedure for their SA revolvers.
<The figures show holding the revolver by the frame forward of the trigger guard with the weak hand. Similar to the position described in step 3 of the DA decocking procedure.>
a. With the thumb controlling the hammer as shown above <normal thumb position on the hammer shown in figure.> squeeze trigger to permit hammer to "break free" Carefully lower hammer.
b. When hammer is past load notch, IMMEDIATELY release trigger. Then lower hammer slowly to its resting position completely down against frame.
a. With the thumb controlling the hammer as shown above <normal thumb position on the hammer shown in figure.> squeeze trigger to permit hammer to "break free" Carefully lower hammer.
b. When hammer is past load notch, IMMEDIATELY release trigger. Then lower hammer slowly to its resting position completely down against frame.
Driftwood Johnson
New member
The reason Ruger stresses releasing the trigger as soon as the hammer breaks free is to allow the transfer bar to pop up and block the hammer. If the revolver has no transfer bar, releasing the trigger accomplishes nothing. It just adds to the complexity of lowering the hammer.
I have been lowering the hammer on my Blackhawk exactly the way I described since 1975. Not too long after I learned how to lower the hammer on a C&B revolver in 1968.
Not too much different than learning how to drive a stick shift. It just takes a little bit of practice.
I have been lowering the hammer on my Blackhawk exactly the way I described since 1975. Not too long after I learned how to lower the hammer on a C&B revolver in 1968.
Not too much different than learning how to drive a stick shift. It just takes a little bit of practice.
Good lord, I can smell the testosterone from here.... There are safe ways to decock a revolver and there are dangerous ways to decock a revolver, and the dangerous ways are still dangerous no matter how many years a shooter has gotten away with it. I can't think of a single good reason not to practice and use the safest way, every time - you win nothing by playing with fire, you can only lose with an AD.
Driftwood Johnson
New member
OK. Never let it be said that I am not open to new ideas.
Just tried the thumbnail technique with a bunch of revolvers.
It works with a Smith. I can fit my thumb under the firing pin. When I let go of the trigger and it pops forward, the hammer rests with the firing pin on top of my thumb. No problem. With the trigger all the way forward, the hammer block can do its job blocking the hammer from going all the way down. Of course this old M&P was made before they were putting hammer blocks in them, but it works anyway, allowing the bump on top of the rebound slide to prevent the hammer from going all the way down. It would work with a modern hammer block equipped Smith too, as well as a Colt.
It works with a SAA because there is space under the firing pin for my thumb. But I can't see the point because with my thumb in there the hammer will not go past half cock. I still have to pull the trigger to lower the hammer past half cock, so what's the point? When I pull my thumb out, if I were to slip, the hammer would fall all the way anyway.
The technique does not work with any of these revolvers. There is no room under the firing pins for my thumb or any other appendage. If I ease the hammers down, these firing pins bear directly on my thumb and it hurts like hell. Besides, the 'half cock' notch on these revolvers is so far down that the hammers are almost all the way down before it is reached. Pulling the trigger only makes things worse. Being single action revolvers like the Colt, if I managed to get a finger in there, despite the pain, when I drew it out with the triggers depressed the hammers would fall the rest of the way and fire a cartridge.
S&W Russian, 2nd Model
S&W Schofield, 1st Model
S&W New Model Number Three
Merwin Hulbert Pocket Army 2nd Model
So for most of these guns, I can't see any other way to lower the hammer than the way I have been doing it all these years.
Of course, I could just fire the round.
Just tried the thumbnail technique with a bunch of revolvers.
It works with a Smith. I can fit my thumb under the firing pin. When I let go of the trigger and it pops forward, the hammer rests with the firing pin on top of my thumb. No problem. With the trigger all the way forward, the hammer block can do its job blocking the hammer from going all the way down. Of course this old M&P was made before they were putting hammer blocks in them, but it works anyway, allowing the bump on top of the rebound slide to prevent the hammer from going all the way down. It would work with a modern hammer block equipped Smith too, as well as a Colt.
It works with a SAA because there is space under the firing pin for my thumb. But I can't see the point because with my thumb in there the hammer will not go past half cock. I still have to pull the trigger to lower the hammer past half cock, so what's the point? When I pull my thumb out, if I were to slip, the hammer would fall all the way anyway.
The technique does not work with any of these revolvers. There is no room under the firing pins for my thumb or any other appendage. If I ease the hammers down, these firing pins bear directly on my thumb and it hurts like hell. Besides, the 'half cock' notch on these revolvers is so far down that the hammers are almost all the way down before it is reached. Pulling the trigger only makes things worse. Being single action revolvers like the Colt, if I managed to get a finger in there, despite the pain, when I drew it out with the triggers depressed the hammers would fall the rest of the way and fire a cartridge.
S&W Russian, 2nd Model
S&W Schofield, 1st Model
S&W New Model Number Three
Merwin Hulbert Pocket Army 2nd Model
So for most of these guns, I can't see any other way to lower the hammer than the way I have been doing it all these years.
Of course, I could just fire the round.
This discussion has made me think about what I do when lowering the hammer. I guess you should put me in the "release the trigger" group. I do it without thinking about it. Once the hammer is past the cocked position, I relax pressure on the trigger. Never considered it complicated.
I'm not sure what Ruger you are talking about there, but the NEW MODEL Ruger Blackhawk lockwork simply does not work that way. Just the opposite, in fact.
The transfer bar does NOT block the hammer. The hammer never touches the firing pin, ever. Pulling the trigger lifts the transfer bar UP, in between the hammer and the firing pin, allowing the force of the hammer to be transferred to the firing pin. Releasing the trigger as soon as the hammer breaks free allows the transfer bar to drop DOWN so it CANNOT transfer energy from the hammer to the firing pin.
The key element to prevent an accidental discharge when lowering the hammer is hammer speed. Distance matters, but only because it affects the speed. You can, if you like, test this with EMPTY primed cases.
If the hammer doesn't fall nearly its full distance, it won't be moving fast enough to set off the round. This is what the thumb (or whatever) between the hammer and the frame does. Because its there, even if the hammer slips at full cock, it can't fall all the way down,, and the small distance it could fall, should you let it when you take your thumb out should not fire the round.
Do what you think is best.
I'm not sure what Ruger you are talking about there, but the NEW MODEL Ruger Blackhawk lockwork simply does not work that way. Just the opposite, in fact.
The transfer bar does NOT block the hammer. The hammer never touches the firing pin, ever. Pulling the trigger lifts the transfer bar UP, in between the hammer and the firing pin, allowing the force of the hammer to be transferred to the firing pin. Releasing the trigger as soon as the hammer breaks free allows the transfer bar to drop DOWN so it CANNOT transfer energy from the hammer to the firing pin.
The key element to prevent an accidental discharge when lowering the hammer is hammer speed. Distance matters, but only because it affects the speed. You can, if you like, test this with EMPTY primed cases.
If the hammer doesn't fall nearly its full distance, it won't be moving fast enough to set off the round. This is what the thumb (or whatever) between the hammer and the frame does. Because its there, even if the hammer slips at full cock, it can't fall all the way down,, and the small distance it could fall, should you let it when you take your thumb out should not fire the round.
Do what you think is best.
Driftwood Johnson
New member
I really do understand exactly how a transfer bar works and how the hammer never touches the firing pin. I have understood that for many years.
The transfer bar, at least in a single action Ruger, has a post at its bottom that fits into a hole in the trigger. When the trigger is pulled back, it rotates far enough to raise the transfer bar up so it will fill the gap between the hammer and the firing pin. In this condition, the gun will fire when the hammer falls. If the trigger is released its spring will pop the trigger forward. That provides enough rotation to pull the transfer bar down so it is no longer in position between the hammer and the firing pin. That is what I was talking about.
P.S. I just reread what I wrote, and 44 AMP is correct and I was wrong. I should have said that
'The reason Ruger stresses releasing the trigger as soon as the hammer breaks free is to allow the transfer bar to pop down away from the hammer.'
My apologies for my mistake and my smug reply. I should know better than to be posting on gun boards when I should be upstairs in bed.
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