Lower Velocity 41 Magnum Jacket Loads
- Thread starter RC20
- Start date
Longshot probably is a great choice but I would like to use the powders I have. So Unique and HS-6 for now.
Yea the volumes look puny in the case. The primer has to be ignition over the top of the powder and not into it.
Not familiar with 41 special so will look into it, I do have plenty of 41 mag brass so trimming some down would be interesting.
I do also want to use the bullets I have. Ergo the jacketed part. It was the recommended choice back in the day though now maybe hard cast would work better (guides have gone to that)
But still its a pistol and back when I got it pure desperation as I was often alone. Now Bear Spray is considered vastly superior. But as one guy noted, well I had bear spray but it was in a holster and it got me before I could get it out!
Yea the volumes look puny in the case. The primer has to be ignition over the top of the powder and not into it.
Not familiar with 41 special so will look into it, I do have plenty of 41 mag brass so trimming some down would be interesting.
I do also want to use the bullets I have. Ergo the jacketed part. It was the recommended choice back in the day though now maybe hard cast would work better (guides have gone to that)
But still its a pistol and back when I got it pure desperation as I was often alone. Now Bear Spray is considered vastly superior. But as one guy noted, well I had bear spray but it was in a holster and it got me before I could get it out!
If the people who made the bullets you have are still around, contact them, and ask them what the LOWER velocity limit for expansion of your bullets are.
jacketed bullets made for the .41 Magnum aren't likely to expand at lower velocity. I would think that you would need 900fps or better to get reliable expansion to some degree, but ask the maker, see what they say.
A jacketed bullet that doesn't expand is STILL a bullet, and will be just as effective as any other bullet with the same nose profile, at the same speed that doesn't expand.
The primary reason cast bullets are preferred for non expanding roles is simply they work and are considerably cheaper than jacketed bullets.
jacketed bullets made for the .41 Magnum aren't likely to expand at lower velocity. I would think that you would need 900fps or better to get reliable expansion to some degree, but ask the maker, see what they say.
A jacketed bullet that doesn't expand is STILL a bullet, and will be just as effective as any other bullet with the same nose profile, at the same speed that doesn't expand.
The primary reason cast bullets are preferred for non expanding roles is simply they work and are considerably cheaper than jacketed bullets.
jetinteriorguy
New member
I’ve been loading and shooting lead, coated, and plated 210gr-220gr bullets over 8-8.4gr of Green Dot for almost 40 years. I’ve even loaded it down to 4.5gr that almost feel like a .38sp for recoil. I found as a downloaded round that 5.5gr of Green Dot was nice and accurate with light recoil. I’ve only ever loaded jacketed bullets with either H110 or 2400, preferring 2400.
It's a simple process if you have a Dillon on a Progressive press. When I first wanted .41 Spl brass, I just sent 200 off to a guy in Kentucky who trimmed them for about $15. But that was 25 years ago.
I use WSF, HS6 and whatever I have in that mid-speed pistol range, and large, non-magnum primers. And I seat the bullets rather deep and use a Lee FCD to crimp. I have about 170 cases now that have easily 20 firings on them each.
Compared to the same load in a .41 Mag case, my SDs are much lower with the .41 Spl case length, and the accuracy is excellent. I keep saying I am going trim some down by 0.3". I also have .41 SuperMag, which is 0.3" longer than .41Mag. I also use the same load data from the .41 Spl to make my Snake Shot loads in a .41Mag case with .410 Stumpbuster wads and overshot cards.
Its your stuff and you do what you think best, but I don't see the point of cutting down .41Mag brass, unless you have a firearm that requires the shortened case in order to chamber the round.
If you want to reduce the "empty space" in the case and seating the bullets deeper isn't a good option, rather than making a permanent change by cutting the brass shorter, why not just use some filler, to take up the undesirable space. Dacron fiber, can be had cheaply about anywhere that sells cloth, or you could even use cream of wheat or oatmeal.
Alternately, you could put those "couple hundred" jacketed slugs up for sale or trade, get lead slug replacements and not worry about your load data with jacketed bullets.
If you want to reduce the "empty space" in the case and seating the bullets deeper isn't a good option, rather than making a permanent change by cutting the brass shorter, why not just use some filler, to take up the undesirable space. Dacron fiber, can be had cheaply about anywhere that sells cloth, or you could even use cream of wheat or oatmeal.
Alternately, you could put those "couple hundred" jacketed slugs up for sale or trade, get lead slug replacements and not worry about your load data with jacketed bullets.
I am pondering the brass, I wish I could remember if those Trooper loads we 38 special wadcutters or 357 cases. They were accurate (and clearly the armorers eye matched mine as the whole setup was spot on).
My experience outside that was the 38 special wad cutter loads were very accurate in a 357. I don't see that not being true for a 41 magnum (and did some of it in 44 magnum with 44 special).
Obviously per the Troopers I could also shoot, but I shot against my step dad often and it was two different aspects. He tended to shade me out by a bit. I was a grunt laborer and I suspect my stance was solid because I had lots of muscles. He was a manager, but he was deceiving in that his reflexes were dynamite (he could drive really well). He simply was a good shot.
I tend to think shorter cases are better than messing with filler. Filler will mix or you need to separate it. I can do that in the BP with a blank atop the powder and then seat the balls atop that, I can feel what is going on compression wise, not so with a metallic case revolver.
I can also buy the cases listed for Starline. Cost is not that bad vs gearing up to do it manually.
I doubt anyone would want my 70s Speers when there are much vastly improved bullets available.
Frankly its fun to experiment and I can take pre cautions.
I might buy lead but I will see waht I can do with what I have. A quick check of the barrel will tell me how its going.
My experience outside that was the 38 special wad cutter loads were very accurate in a 357. I don't see that not being true for a 41 magnum (and did some of it in 44 magnum with 44 special).
Obviously per the Troopers I could also shoot, but I shot against my step dad often and it was two different aspects. He tended to shade me out by a bit. I was a grunt laborer and I suspect my stance was solid because I had lots of muscles. He was a manager, but he was deceiving in that his reflexes were dynamite (he could drive really well). He simply was a good shot.
I tend to think shorter cases are better than messing with filler. Filler will mix or you need to separate it. I can do that in the BP with a blank atop the powder and then seat the balls atop that, I can feel what is going on compression wise, not so with a metallic case revolver.
I can also buy the cases listed for Starline. Cost is not that bad vs gearing up to do it manually.
I doubt anyone would want my 70s Speers when there are much vastly improved bullets available.
Frankly its fun to experiment and I can take pre cautions.
I might buy lead but I will see waht I can do with what I have. A quick check of the barrel will tell me how its going.
I can tell you from direct experience, the shorter case is a great benefit. Those who don't see the point either don't understand it or don't want the best accuracy.
Lots of .38SPL wadcutters have excelled in the accuracy department, fired out of .357Magnum Revolvers. (That's a shorter case and a deep seated bullet both). Good thing those folks did not poo-poo the idea and tried it out.
Lots of .38SPL wadcutters have excelled in the accuracy department, fired out of .357Magnum Revolvers. (That's a shorter case and a deep seated bullet both). Good thing those folks did not poo-poo the idea and tried it out.
You might be surprised. It depends on WHICH bullets you have, and whether or not you think they're worth their weight in gold.
I don't have any .41s, so no .41 bullet interests me. BUT if it were the 70s Speer .38 or .44 Jacketed SWC slugs I'd be very interested. Also if it were the 200gr .45 JHP nicknamed "the flying ashtray" I know folks who would spill blood in a feeding frenzy to get their hands on any quantity of those!
Yes there are newer "better" performing bullets out there, but there are also shooters who remember and were happy with those old Speers and would love to get some of them again.
I would agree with this, IF what you're talking about is downloading magnums by reducing the charge of slow "Magnum" powders. 2400 behaves fairly well at the lower end of its charge range, and often, a bit below. W296 and H110 do not. I can't say about AA No.9, I have not used it in reduced loads.
IF you are looking for very light loads, other, faster powders will do better in magnum cases than excessively reduced charges of slow powders.
Jim Watson
New member
A guy here reduced 2400 loads in .44 Magnum by a LOT to dip his toes into CAS.
What a mess, erratic and dirty.
What a mess, erratic and dirty.
RC20...I know you're looking for reduced velocity jacketed loads but I thought these might also be of interest for their lower recoil.
Brian Pearce had an article in Handloader some years ago and published some interesting loads for his 6-1/2" BH and a 4" M657 Smith Mountain Gun. I've used the following in my .41 Magnums: a M57 and three Blackhawks. Both bullets below are lead alloy, home cast. In my use, I've had equal success with Missouri Bullet Co's ~210 gr LSWC's.
With RCBS's 210 gr LSWC, 5.5 gr of Red Dot gave him 970 fps in the BH and 934 in the 4" Smith.
With Lyman's 410459 220 gr LSWC, 6.0 gr of Win 231 gave him 858 & 828 fps.
Using 5.0 gr of Bullseye, he got 812 & 795 fps.
With 7.5 gr of Unique, he got 1055 & 1028 fps.
With HS-6, 11.5 gr gave him, 1142 & 1062 fps.
I've had good luck with all of these in my guns...all will do two inches or less at 25 yds from a rest and recoil is very comfortable. Best regards, Rod
Brian Pearce had an article in Handloader some years ago and published some interesting loads for his 6-1/2" BH and a 4" M657 Smith Mountain Gun. I've used the following in my .41 Magnums: a M57 and three Blackhawks. Both bullets below are lead alloy, home cast. In my use, I've had equal success with Missouri Bullet Co's ~210 gr LSWC's.
With RCBS's 210 gr LSWC, 5.5 gr of Red Dot gave him 970 fps in the BH and 934 in the 4" Smith.
With Lyman's 410459 220 gr LSWC, 6.0 gr of Win 231 gave him 858 & 828 fps.
Using 5.0 gr of Bullseye, he got 812 & 795 fps.
With 7.5 gr of Unique, he got 1055 & 1028 fps.
With HS-6, 11.5 gr gave him, 1142 & 1062 fps.
I've had good luck with all of these in my guns...all will do two inches or less at 25 yds from a rest and recoil is very comfortable. Best regards, Rod
Looking through my loading notes I found the following Jacketed loads which I chrono'd in my 6-1/2" Ruger Flat Top BH and a 6" M57 Smith.
Speer's 220 gr half jacket from 25 yrs ago: 7.2 gr HP-38 = 1025 fps / ES 38 & 1-1/4" 5-shot grouping at 25 yds.
In my 6" M57 Smith, with Remington's 200 gr JHP, 6.5 gr of HP-38 gave me 915 fps / ES 37 with 1.6" grouping at 25 yds.
These are my loads worked up in my guns, and showed no pressure problems. If interested, consult a GOOD manual and consider pressure implications.
Speer's 220 gr half jacket from 25 yrs ago: 7.2 gr HP-38 = 1025 fps / ES 38 & 1-1/4" 5-shot grouping at 25 yds.
In my 6" M57 Smith, with Remington's 200 gr JHP, 6.5 gr of HP-38 gave me 915 fps / ES 37 with 1.6" grouping at 25 yds.
These are my loads worked up in my guns, and showed no pressure problems. If interested, consult a GOOD manual and consider pressure implications.
rodfac:
Thank you for the info. I have no problems with lead bullets. As noted, all those Jacket go to waste as I am not going to shoot them for their intended velocity. Worst case I put them up on a site and send them off for the cost of shipping. I just hate to see them go to waste.
As for powders, as noted for what I have, going to go with those. If I was staring new and I could get what I want, then some of the powders mentioned.
I am workign with Unique and HS-6 in 45 Colt Cowboy loads pushing a 200 gr Lead SWC so will have some data from that as to which one seems to work better.
Thank you for the info. I have no problems with lead bullets. As noted, all those Jacket go to waste as I am not going to shoot them for their intended velocity. Worst case I put them up on a site and send them off for the cost of shipping. I just hate to see them go to waste.
As for powders, as noted for what I have, going to go with those. If I was staring new and I could get what I want, then some of the powders mentioned.
I am workign with Unique and HS-6 in 45 Colt Cowboy loads pushing a 200 gr Lead SWC so will have some data from that as to which one seems to work better.
Ok, ran the first batches out. No issues. I did use a hard crimp.
I checked the barrel for all 6 rounds at the lowest speeds, two at the higher speeds.
Lowest was 600 fps (and that is too low). Highest was 987.
Unique did the best, ALL-8 was good and may match Unique but it was too slow.
I have the range of loads and can bump them up and get higher speeds. Unique at the highest speed was the best accuracy.
If a round did not trip the LabRadar I checked the barrel to be sure nothing was left in it.
I checked the barrel for all 6 rounds at the lowest speeds, two at the higher speeds.
Lowest was 600 fps (and that is too low). Highest was 987.
Unique did the best, ALL-8 was good and may match Unique but it was too slow.
I have the range of loads and can bump them up and get higher speeds. Unique at the highest speed was the best accuracy.
If a round did not trip the LabRadar I checked the barrel to be sure nothing was left in it.
Black wallnut
New member
You're posting about 150 bullets. If you keep experimenting you will find a solution about the time you run out. Then what? If it was me I would just go with the best Unique load you found and proceed to punch paper. <150 is what 2-3 range sessions at most? When you find a good load and run out try same load with 210 grain lswc-gc, or plain base. I have a Lyman mold for the Keith style SWC gas check bullet. Probably a half box or more of old Lyman gas checks plus a full unopened box. Not sure what I am going to do once those checks are gone.
.41 spl looks interesting.
.41 spl looks interesting.