Losing faith in Colt ?

Jibber,
Sorry, forgot about you. :)

Your decision, but I've bought three new Colts in the past four years & would not personally spend the money on a lesser-grade import.
The major dislike I have on new Colt 1911s is the company's refusal to address the razor edges during manufacture, but in my case even a Colt is only raw material from the factory anyway. Edges are corrected along with other work done. :)

Denis
 
I never said I knew about colt's business dealings and even said the opposite. How do I know how good they are? I know because I'm around many who have dealings with them and even some who no longer want to have dealings with them. I speak with people who have bought from them and they know their guns darn well and when they tell me the new ones stink then I believe them. Of course there will be the exceptions.

Over the years I've heard one complaint after another about their quality control and their dealings with some very good customers who have businesses. There was a time I hardly heard a whisper regarding the colt workmanship. I've been around when people had problems shooting them and my friend even sliced his finger ejecting a shell casing from a 3rd generation SAA that came straight out of the colt custom shop. It stopped me from getting one against my better judgement.

I'm no soothsayer and can't see into the future, but seeing the results of stupidity performed by other companies can certainly give me a little hint as to what the furture may, or may not bring to colt.

I've never lost a dime with any firearm that I've ever bought , or sold. It took me 50 years of learning from others lots smarter than I am, which include an uncle of mine, to be able to grab hold of what would eventually increase in value, while at the same time enjoying what I had, cause I only bought what I didn't like once and got rid of it quick.

By the way, I'm not just a collector, but am a shooter and carry every day for protection just in case I run into some dirtbag I sent to the joint and use a gun in the course of other business dealings.

Why trust a gun that once had some issues over others that I've used over many years? First of all, all guns from time to time have issues, just some have more issues than others. That's an easy one. When in LE I carried a S&W mod10 along with a colt DS for off duty. Today the Glock is my old dept's choice for many officers along with the Sig226. I have an old 228 sig as well that I've carried since '88 and never had a problem. Even though Glock has had problems, as of now the 3rd gen is doing fine. When over 30,000 men carry it everyday with good results it's good enough for me. The same was true back in my day with the old colt and smith revolvers.

Please cut me some slack. I know the way things were with colt in the past will never be repeated again. Like other companies colt may get bought out , yet the name will stay the same, but things definately will not be the same either. Can they make great guns? Sure they can. Do they make great guns? I don't know, cause you have to ask new owners for their opinions. If they think their gun is just dandy then I will agree with them. Would I recommend them as a first choice? No. I will also not tell people what to buy unless it's family, or a friend. I don't like to knock the company that once made my all time favorite guns. People shouldn't get their panties in a bunch either while others are just giving their opinions. I think we can agree to disagree.;)

I'll conclude by saying that I'm very happy with what I got and I hope all are happy with what they have.
 
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I don't see how Colt will be able to stay competitive or profitable in the civilian world without a double stack poly.
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Oh, they made one in 1991. May the Lord have mercy on our souls, they did make one.

Like Smith & Wesson, they've had their ups and downs, and the last decade of the 20th century was marked by a few wretched business and political decisions.

As far as I can tell, their quality is currently excellent and their prices are competitive. I haven't seen a fiasco like the Double Eagle in quite some time, even if the paint does (still!) fall off the sights from time to time.
 
I believe Smith & Wesson was in serious financial dificulty in the early 1950s. Anyone could have said the same things about S&W then that have been said about Colt in this thread. Colt, you know, used to be a public stock company and I owned some. Then they went private, oh, around 20 or 25 years ago. Since then I have no interest in their finances and no knowledge of them either. I wonder how other people know so much about the company. But I have some other comments, too.

One is that, like Winchester, Colts have produced a lot of guns that were instant collector guns, whether or not they deserved to be. Winchester made a lot of commemorative rifles but Colt did little of that. Still, a SAA seems to be thought of as more of a collector item and their "reproduction" WWI and WWII versions of the 1911 seem more intended for collectors, unfortunately. But that brings me to another question.

Colt made Model 1911A1 pistols in WWII, along with other manufacturers. Here are two questions: Were Colt-made pistols any better than the other manufacturers? And how do WWII Colt-made pistols (as well as the other WWII 1911A1 pistols) compare with today's products, at least if you figure out "up-market" models, if that is possible. I realize that's not so easy to do but inside the pistol, is there a difference?

Finally, and I just thought of this, are there any other pistols that have an instant collector status? Walther, at least, sometimes produces a "first edition" version of some models, which is presumably for collectors, and S&W produces their classic line of revolvers, which seem to have enough differences compared to the "originals" as to spoil any serious collector interest as well as a lot of more serious shooter interest to boot. There are other manufacturers of rather expensive pistols (according to my own scale of what is expensive) like HK and most Sigs but they do not apparently attempt to creat collector pistols no moe than Dodge tries to create collector trucks--or do they?
 
Blue,
If I'm one of the "other people" you refer to, my job requires me to deal with Colt and other makers.
My comments here have come from several years of contact with various people at Colt at various times.

The wartime 1911A1s were pretty much all equal in quality, since government specs required the same materials, tolerances, configurations & so on in key areas.
There were some exceptions in getting one or two companies up to speed, but since the government set and enforced the specs, there wasn't much room to fudge.

How does wartime production compare with todays product? To the market in general or to Colt?

Colt to Colt, wartime production didn't have the cutting edges of today's pistols, but also didn't have the improved sights and other upgrade options.
Machining today occasionally shows a rub on the forward end of the frame by the slide, and over-finishing on one side of the frame or the other that makes the slide appear to be off-center (it isn't, but many people refuse to believe the explanation).

The rub & the cosmetic off-center illusion are hopefully lessening with newer CNC production & more attention during one step of the process that sometimes creates a thinner dustcover on one side.

Otherwise, Colt 1911s are pretty good today.

Colt has put out several commemorative "collector" SAAs, most of which later sell at lower prices than standard guns.
The majority market seems to prefer the regular un-adorned Peacemaker.

Back in '93 when I was going through a week-long Colt armorer's school, the instructor told me Colt considered the Peacemaker a collector gun per se, didn't believe most buyers would ever shoot one, and the sorta unspoken inference was that's why the Model Ps at that time were not quite as nicely finished inside as they were on the outside.
The CAS movement was largely responsible for an improvement in the actions, when Colt management finally realized a bunch of people were buying with the full expectation of (gasp) SHOOTING the things.
Denis
 
Why would they be as nicely finished on the inside as on the outside anyway, unless you mean inside the frame where the cylinder is (and where the finish is visible--but look at a Ruger). I owned a SAA at one time but it's finer points were pretty much wasted on me. But I still like their automatics. Don't really understand why I don't own one, either!
 
I was refering to the smoothness of the action. They were known to be fairly rough at the time.
In other words, Colt was producing them more to be looked at than fired.
Denis
 
I hear how alot of Colt's 1911 have "instant collector" status with some folks...The few I saw that my be close to this point in my own mind are a couple of the repros, such as the black army they made a few years back.

I think alot of this instant collector status is because of the long standing comments about how Colt will soon to be gone for good, so get them while you can... I remember last year going to a couple of gun shows with friends. The 100th anniversery 1911's that they had were selling like hotcakes for a way to high price, at least for me.

Then you have companies like America Remembers, who contracts to a company for "X" many special edition firearms, like this 1911:
http://www.americaremembers.com/products/MDDOGTP/MDDOGTP.asp

While I know Colt has had problems over the years. It seems that the name is selling a good amount of their products right now, and it makes little different to some of these buyers I mentioned above probably what the quality is, as the firearm will probably never be shot.

Those who buy and shoot a Colt firearm just needs to do some research, and with any other firearm, if a problem comes up give the factory a chance to get it right. Not a single company out there is perfect...
 
For casual shooters they are great but they will not look as good and will not hold the value that a Colt will.
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Well, I sort of agree with you. I bet the RIA loses less $s even if more percentage of value.

If you are thinking guns as investment, outside of regulation based increases firearms values rarely keep pace with inflation.
 
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Well, I sort of agree with you. I bet the RIA loses less $s even if more percentage of value.

If you are thinking guns as investment, outside of regulation based increases firearms values rarely keep pace with inflation.
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No not really. RIAs sell new for about $350 to $450 depending on flavor. You can sell or get them used for $300 to $400. Which means you are loosing 12% to 14%.

I can buy a Colt for $800 NIB and sell it for $750 which is only a 6% loss. Actually I personally have never lost money on a Colt and I have bought and sold quite a few.

;)
 
Uh oh, here I go again. When I hear the word investment my ears perk up. Give me $15,000 and one year to work with it and I'll get a return of $35 to $40,000 on it, while exclusively investing in guns. You have to know what and how to buy. Firearms collectors that knew what they were doing in years past did better with gun investments than gold and silver.

First of all, when you see the word commemorative attached to a particular model it should feel like someone smacked you in the head with a hammer. Most times you run and not walk away. Nine out of ten times they will be a loser for you and shoot it once and 50% of it's value goes down the crapper. Buying one real cheap can be a different story if it's been shot already, cause for the right price people will buy those fancy things. The only winchester commemorative I'd like to grab a hold of is their One Of A Thousand, which was only offered in europe and even that would have to be for the right price. Their Annie Oakley .22 was very nice and value had gone up and I gave one to my brother, cause he liked it. The SASS people have been known to buy up the colt 125 year commemoratives, cause they're so much cheaper than the standard SA's.

Just to make a point, if I were starting a collection I'd be looking to grab up as many antique and old DA revolvers that I could get my hands on. The colt 92,94,96US Armies are extremely under priced, though the minty ones aren't cheap. The colt 1878's, 1877's, etc. can be had at fairly affordable prices and will be flying to the sky as far as value is concerned in the coming years. Even the old colt bisleys are way undervalued though are climbing compared to the SAA's. S&W 44Russians in mint condition could bring five grand and I paid $335 in 1976. I think that's a pretty good for a return. But they can be had in lesser condition for much cheaper and will still go up in value.

I try to buy the guns that I personally like to have and enjoy and am not comfortable with owning things I don't care for. More times than I liked I forced myself to either trade, or sell certain guns that I loved and wanted to keep in order to upgrade to something else. Unless you're very wealthy these things must be done in order to own something of monetary value and to be proud of. Thank GOD I no longer have to search. Just think before you buy.
 
What you are talking about is day trading. It is possible to day trade ANY commodity and make millions out of pennies. This means nothing.
You can spend thousands of hours trading individual guns and say you "made" $40,000 dollars, but then figure in your labor costs. You would be better off working at McDonalds.
 
What in the world are you talking about? Day trading? I'm one of the laziest people you'll ever meet. I go out of my way for nothing. If I happened to hear about something for sale I'd investigate it like a good detective. If something was worth buying at a gun show I'd buy it.

I made my greatest buy in a well known gunshop that had a 92 trapper on consignment and didn't realize what they had. This rifle was on the rack for all to see for three months and was going back to the owner the next day. What does that tell ya? It tells me that most who enter gunshops, especially those who only get excited when hunting season comes around know not what they're looking at. The owners of this store, which had been open and was very popular for many years knew crap as well. Well, that $400 investment when I was retiring in the mid 80's, caused me to sell a beautiful M1A1 that I really wanted to keep, but got me something that's worth $8-$12,000 today. That's day trading? I begged my partner to buy that rifle for his son and he said he didn't want to spend that much. Today he and his son are both sick that they didn't listen to me.

While on the job in LE guys always had things for sale, or trade. Very often items were brought in after someone became deceased and the widow wanted to get rid of it. In your wildest dreams you couldn't even imagine what I've turned down and I still have some regrets, but you can't buy everything.

I had no labor costs and no overhead. As a matter of fact it's funny how you mentioned McDonald's, cause 30 years ago I got very well paid in one for being their bouncer after the previous one, who happened to be a weight lifter, was found in a caddy with his toes up in the air. Guess what I was able to do with the money I earned?
 
You always have labor cost because you could always be doing something else. I keep my eyes open and buy/sell a lot of guns. I more often than not come out a few dollars ahead when I sell and put a decent number of rounds through a gun when I get around to selling it, but if I figured all the time I spend researching firearms, dropping into gunshops to look what used items they have in etc, I am not making much at all.

What kind of trapper is it? Is it one of the 14 inch ones exempted from NFA? That would fit under regulations. NFA laws change and your rifle value drops. Otherwise I can't find much reference to trappers worth quite that, even take downs in mint condition.

This is a bit off track from colt though.
 
It's a 44-40 trapper not seen much if at all. It's 17 1/2" special order barrel length mfg 1898 in almost mint condition. Trappers were manufactured 19" and shorter. The common ones are 14" and 15" in miserable condition, cause most were carried in the jungles of south America. The salesman thought it was made just prior to WW11. When I saw 88,000 I knew I had to have it. The rare sight was missing for some strange reason, but I quickly replaced it after speaking to someone at Buffalo Bill. I think the missing sight turned off people and that's why it wasn't sold.

I've turned down a number of offers for this little diamond, but can't part with it. The last offer I had was a few years ago for around 6, or a little more, but on a good day if someone wants it bad it should go between 8 and 10. The 12,000 was what an expert in these things said it could possibly bring. When the time comes we'll see.

I'm attempting to figure out how to send photos through the url and just signed up for photobucket. I have some handguns on the computer and do have the trapper and a nice vintage 94 taken together, but it's a real lousy picture taken by my cousin. Give me an email address and I'll send it. I have great polaroids of my guns but don't think there's any way to post them.

I always tell people to get letters cause the ser#88,000 range in the Blue Book would put the 92 mfg date in 1894, which is 4 years off. Also, I didn't go out of my way to do any buying, cause wherever I was I would've been there anyway. Besides, buying and selling always gave me lots of pleasure. Now I just relax, though still can't pass up a good deal.

I appologize for being off topic and will say colt is magnificent. Hope this prevents me from being scolded and receiving more bad boy points. I'm too old to be getting into trouble.
 
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