Long Range - Where to start? Action or Cal?

J

joeranger

New member
There are plans to open a long range facility in Il. (it's a big deal if you know Il).
I have been eager to get into longer range shooting 500+.
I have a lot of fun on prairie dog shoots, but past 300yds I am just guessing.
I would like to build a gun that has the potential to reach out to 1,000+
This is not for big game and I do not reload.
Should I start with a standard action, like the 700 Rem?

How do I choose a cal based on the following;
Long distance but no need to bring down big game.
Commercially available ammo/options
Cost/recoil not as much a factor since it would not be a primary gun

If you think about a prairie dog shoot, you start with a .17 or .22 until they get skiddish, then switch to a 5.56. I would like a gun that I can pull out for some really long shots.
 
.260 Remington.

Surprisingly, the Hornady 140gr AMAX is devastating on prairie dogs, so you can have one load for LR Target shooting and Varminting.
 
As for myself for longer range small game I like a heavy barrel bolt rifle(700 Rem. is a good choice) with a bipod and a good scope on board in 22-250 and 220 swift. If you have to deal with windy conditions often you may want to a larger caliber for the heavier bullet.
 
Where is this range you speak of going to be?!? I'll be all over it if it's within 50 miles of me.

Have you considered a .22-250? I have seen this ammo available at even Wal-Mart and I believe Remington make the 700 in this caliber, if not, they definitely make a rifle that will chamber it. I've been very interested in the velocity and energy of these quite capable cartridges. I haven't read much about people taking these out past more than 300 or so yards, but I'm sure it could reach out pretty far. If you really need capability past 1,000+ yards, I might go with at least a .308, but a .300 WM sounds even better (however, not very economically feasible, for the .300 anyway). What you may or may not find out very quickly is that you'll need to start dope-ing your rifle and learning how to read those mil reticles. Any cartridge is only going to get you so far. At 1,000 yards, I think it's more about a shooter's skill than how flat your gun shoots.
 
Forwhat you're asking, the 260 would be my choice.

How ever most any round will shoot to 1000, at that distance its the shooter and his ability to judge wind.
 
A lot of long range shooting is done with custom rifles and many have special chamberings. One thing almost all have in common is that their ammunition is hand loaded. You will get a lot of different opinions on which cartridge to use on here. Keep in mind, that you will want something that has a flat trajectory and has a high bullet bc available to you. The most popular calibers are 6.5, 30, 338, and 50. Your choice will be limited by how much you want to spend.
 
Might be a pipe dream, but these guys are trying to make it happen. http://www.devildogarms.com/index.htm

I have a lot to learn. True long range guns are the equivalent of an Indy Car.
I just want to start with a foundation I can grow with.
If I start with a .308, I would only "outgrow" it if I need knockdown big game power at long range or consistency past 8-900. Right?
I can only get good enough if I shoot a lot which makes the 308 a better choice on the wallet and shoulder.
Since the military and LE use the 308 there are lots of options.
With that said, .308 is right for me. Done. (Although, that little voice says, go for the bigger bullet you big p-----)

Platform. I don't need semi auto, and bolt will be more accurate anyway right? Rem 700 and Win 70 are the ones debated on all the forums. I would want to replace the stock later and just focus on the gun itself. Can you buy a high end gun with a longer barrel, good trigger, but cheep stock?
 
I just bought a Remington 700 SPS Varmint in .308 as a long range project gun. It runs under $700, and you can find them for around $600 if you shop around. For what I want, it is great. The stock will be upgraded soon, as will the trigger, but as it is (out of the box), it shoots great.

Savage also makes good and accurate out of the box guns, but doesn't have quite the amount of aftermarket options available that the Rem 700 does.

Sent from my HTC One X
 
Well, I build rifles for a living (not that this makes me an expert). I have built some long-range rifles, and they end up costing about $3,500 when finished (minus optics). They shoot well.

If you are a machinist, can do the stock work, and have the knowledge to build your own long range bolt action rifle, you can do it for about $2,500 and 40-50 hours of labor.

You can buy "off the shelf" long range shooters, but they are someone else's idea of how to build a long-range rifle, and they do it cheaper than you would likely do it. Savage makes an entry-level F Class rifle that runs right around $1,500. That same $1,500 will also buy a Remington 700 Long Range Tactical. Either would be a good starter rifle and will make you competitive.
 
off the cuff - if you're looking for general areas to narrow it down to. here's my .02

Bolt action is likely going to give you your best bet for attainable accuracy without breaking the bank.

caliber is subjective to many.

Personally I would stick to a low-recoil round with a high BC.

5.56/223 is a light round for long distance, not that it can't be done - but it's kinda light and will be subject to wind and such much more readily.

commercially available -, best there will be a .30 cal variant. there's lots of info out there for .308 and 30-06 loooong range shots, IIRC .270 too. but there is some recoil to deal with if you're sensitive. I've never personally been able to tell the difference between the recoil of any of them.

again, personally I like the 6mm caliber stuff - lots o potential there. Much lighter recoil than a .30 round. .243 is a great one, and is also very available. Myself, I've developed a taste for the 6.5x55 sweede and will be putting together something this winter. A little less available in my area, yours may be different.
 
First, I would try to find out what type of long range shooting is to be done there. The requirements for a bullseye target rifle and a "tactical" rifle are somewhat different. There are half a dozen different divisions of bullseye competition stretched out to 1000 yards for that matter.

Second, I would think about the meaning of this criterion:
"Commercially available ammo/options"

If one of the options is handloading, the sky is the limit, there are a multitude of different cartridges that people will recommend based on THEIR likes and dislikes.
If you are buying ammunition, the availability of true target load centerfire rifle ammunition is very limited, not to mention expensive.
Match .308 is pretty available but after that you get down to one or two suppliers for good ballistics like 6.5 Lapua, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5x284, 6.5 Swede, .30-06, .300 Win Mag.
The .260 Rem is a good cartridge but I do not know of factory match ammo for it. Handloaders can now get Lapua brass for it instead of laborously sorting and prepping the RP... if they don't mind paying more for it.

Me?
I've got a .223 that will shoot a lot farther than you might think, also a decent .308 on Savage action; both F-T/R rifles. I know a nice 6.5 or 7mm Whatever would shoot flatter and closer to the wind but it would also put me in a different match division and cost level. I'm happy where I am.

If you started out with a .308 you would benefit from a lot of rifles, ammo, and data. And if you wanted something different later on, well, barrels don't last forever and they don't have to be replaced with exactly the same thing.
 
Seems like the OP has picked his caliber (.308) and he's off to a good start. You're going to find so many great bolt guns in that caliber. My suggestion is that if you really intend on changing the stock, pick up whatever action you require in the cheapest stock available. You won't enjoy shooting it with that, so make sure that's what you want to do. You'll also have to pillar and float your action. This will probably require a gunsmith. A bull barrel might be a great suggestion as well. Really, the sky's the limit here. If you want to shoot it out of the box, spend a little more on the features you must have. Shooting with a crappy plastic stock might turn you off to shooting it. A heavier rifle might be another good suggestion if you plan on shooting it a lot.
 
Get a Savage in 6mmBR and buy Norma 6mmBR ammo, it is low recoil and high BC like what you want. It will shoot as good as good as the 308.
If you go with the 308 get good reloads, something like what Bryan Litz sells or the like.
 
I recommend the .308 Win. as commercial match ammo's probably the most accurate of that type available. As to the platform, here's my two sheckels worth. . . . .

Start with a Winchester Model 70 action; it's stiffer than all the other box magazine makes save those huge (very expensive) Magnum Mauser actions for 50 caliber behemoth busters in Africa. And it's probably the most reliable. Plus it holds epoxy bedding better than any round receiver with its flat sides and bottom parts; doesn't twist out of good contact from barrel torque with 30 caliber bullets heavier than 160 grains.

Get a used one then rebarrel it with a better quality aftermarket barrel. Epoxy bed it correctly and it'll shoot very, very accurate. Such actions have the best track record in high power competition for winning and record setting using factory sporter rifle actions.
 
260 Rem if you're sure all you want to do is blow holes into small pieces of paper a long ways off. If you want power out to 1000 yards, 300 RUM ,easier to reload than the belted stuff.
If you don't go the custom route, be careful that the magazine is long enough to take the high BC bullets you want to use, or just get a single shot version.
 
What you want to do sounds like a lot of fun, but I do think that it would be a lot more fun if you do get into reloading. I don't shoot at 1000 yards, but if I did I'd for sure do it with ammo I made for my specific rifle. I don't think I've shot a factory load in one of my rifles in 30 years. I have a couple of rifles that have never had a factory round through them.

As for the rifle, I'd suggest that you start with a heavy barrelled bolt action in 223 and some high dollar glass. The long range guys on this forum will have all the scoop on what rifle and what glass. I'd change that caliber recommendation to 260 if you do reload or plan to do so.
 
A .223 for over 500 yards? Doable, but not what most would choose.

Savage 12 LRP in either .260 or 6.5 Creedmore.
Target AccuTrigger and HS Precision stock out of the box. No upgrading needed.
 
All the youtube videos I have seen of the Desert Tactical Arms bolt actions have left me with my chin resting of the floor. Admittedly those long range shoots have been with more punchy calibers than .308, but then the distances have also been far greater.

If I had the r€adies to buy one of those,....!!!
:D
 
For those recommending 22 caliber centerfire cartridges for long range, note the US Army Advanced Marksmanship Unit gave up on the 5.56mm NATO round shooting heavy bullets at 1000 yards in attempts to win the long range matches.

The Army's AMU convinced the NRA to allow AR10's chambered for the .308 Win. (7.62mm NATO) to be considered a "service rifle" so they could compete with the old USN retired folks shooting 7.62 NATO converted Garands and others shooting M1A's who where getting higher scores than the 22 caliber mouse guns produced. They've done very well with their new "service rifle" shooting 30 caliber Berger 185's winning matches and setting records.
 
Sure, BartB, you are right in what you said, but I did make a few assumptions prior to recommending the 223. The big assumption is that if the OP doesn't reload, he isn't likely to be as into shooting as some of the guys on this forum. If he isn't shooting a lot now, that 308 might beat him up a bit. The 260, with full bore loads, might also beat him up a bit if he's shooting a lot of ammo and doing it often. Recoil brings on bad habits like flinching. So if he's just shooting at 1000 or less and not doing it for score or any type of competition, a 223 is easy to shoot and cheap and is offered in many types of factory loads. I'm thinking that it's a good starter rifle for what he has in mind, though it isn't what you or I would use. If recoil is no problem, then I'd go with the 260. I have one and I really like it, though max loads will kick you a bit, but not like my 270 at max loads.

On the other hand, he may have been shooting all his life and doesn't have a problem with recoil. If so...the 260, the 308, or one of the 300 mags.
 
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