allenomics
New member
Interesting story. Sounds like these guys were training. That's a long walk for dog food.
Long range shooting ethical?
- Thread starter phil mcwilliam
- Start date
That's the part that worries me. Flight time for an 1800 yard shot would be up around 2.5 seconds or so even from a really hot .30 cal.
Maybe I'm good enough to make the shot. Maybe I have the knowledge to set everything up perfectly and the skill to execute the shot with precision. But no matter how good I am, if the range is long enough there's time between the trigger pull and the bullet's arrival for the target to move and turn the perfect kill into an ugly wound and a lost animal.
long range shooting can and has been done alot the thing i don't like is all the variables. If any of you have ever noticed they will show misses but not how many animals are wounded and never found. My biggest pet pieve is when they shoot in heavy winds and at 1000 + yards not ethical, but can be wait for the stars to aline no wind and tons of practice and a good range finder is more on the ethical side in my opinion.
What was done on that 2000 acre ranch with feral goats is very similar to what is commonly done on a prairie dog town here in the USA. The carcass was even used in this case so we are told.
I have no trouble with this story. I myself am very satisfied with hunting shots not to exceed 200 yards for myself
(not because I am unable to, its just a personal limitation).
Phil, did you make the conversion to yards for us? Am i correct to believe you use the metric system as a rule?
How skiddish are those feral goats? As in how close can one get without causing them to be very nervous?
I have no trouble with this story. I myself am very satisfied with hunting shots not to exceed 200 yards for myself
(not because I am unable to, its just a personal limitation).
Phil, did you make the conversion to yards for us? Am i correct to believe you use the metric system as a rule?
How skiddish are those feral goats? As in how close can one get without causing them to be very nervous?
I'm a target shooter. I've been shooting high power including 1000 yard matches for over 30 years. I know what conditions, wind, temp, etc. will do to a bullet at 600 or 1000 yards.
We're talking hunting so lets look at a hunting round, for example, an 180 grn 300 WM @ 3000 fps MV.
An one mile an hour wind will move your bullet about 8 inches. No problem, a 1000 yard target has a twenty inch X-10 ring. Look at it this way, a 3 mph wind will move you 24 inches, and 5 mph, 40 inches. How many people can tell the differance between 3 & 5 mph at 1000 yards? The differance between 950 yards and 1000 yards in bullet drop is about 30 inches. How many people are that accurate in range estimation at 1000 yards? How about the temp.? What does it do to your round?
If I'm off a tad on my estimations at a match, I'm gonna drop a point or two, If I'm off a tad while hunting I'm gonna have a gut shot critter that could run for miles before it crawls off to suffer a painful death.
No sir, If I what to shoot long range (and I do), find some targets and range. If I hunt, I'll sight my rifle in for 200 yards and hunt. I've been hunting for over 50 years, killing my first deer at 8 years old, I can count on one hand how many critters I've shot over 100 yards. None over 200 yards.
The only exception I shot a running dog at 237 yards, that wasnt hunting, It was a LE Sniper call out to get the suspected rabid dog to prevent a child from getting an un-necessary series of rabid shots. That was a necessary, not hunting.
I'm also not a fan of shooting running targets even though I've had extensive training and practice.
You wont empress me talking about long range shots on game, even if you make the kill. It tells me you are lucky, not good.
Most impressive hunt I've seen was hunting caribou near King Salmon AK. I set on a hill and watched a guy crawl through the tundra for four hours to get a 30 yards shot with a bow. Now that was hunting.
We're talking hunting so lets look at a hunting round, for example, an 180 grn 300 WM @ 3000 fps MV.
An one mile an hour wind will move your bullet about 8 inches. No problem, a 1000 yard target has a twenty inch X-10 ring. Look at it this way, a 3 mph wind will move you 24 inches, and 5 mph, 40 inches. How many people can tell the differance between 3 & 5 mph at 1000 yards? The differance between 950 yards and 1000 yards in bullet drop is about 30 inches. How many people are that accurate in range estimation at 1000 yards? How about the temp.? What does it do to your round?
If I'm off a tad on my estimations at a match, I'm gonna drop a point or two, If I'm off a tad while hunting I'm gonna have a gut shot critter that could run for miles before it crawls off to suffer a painful death.
No sir, If I what to shoot long range (and I do), find some targets and range. If I hunt, I'll sight my rifle in for 200 yards and hunt. I've been hunting for over 50 years, killing my first deer at 8 years old, I can count on one hand how many critters I've shot over 100 yards. None over 200 yards.
The only exception I shot a running dog at 237 yards, that wasnt hunting, It was a LE Sniper call out to get the suspected rabid dog to prevent a child from getting an un-necessary series of rabid shots. That was a necessary, not hunting.
I'm also not a fan of shooting running targets even though I've had extensive training and practice.
You wont empress me talking about long range shots on game, even if you make the kill. It tells me you are lucky, not good.
Most impressive hunt I've seen was hunting caribou near King Salmon AK. I set on a hill and watched a guy crawl through the tundra for four hours to get a 30 yards shot with a bow. Now that was hunting.
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
I thought I'd throw this in, just for visualization of what we're talking about.
This is the trajectory from 1000 to 1900 yards of a 180gr Swift Scirocco fired from a 30-378 at 3451fps muzzle velocity.
Wind drift is based on a 2mph, 90dg crosswind.
Amen brother.
This is the trajectory from 1000 to 1900 yards of a 180gr Swift Scirocco fired from a 30-378 at 3451fps muzzle velocity.
Wind drift is based on a 2mph, 90dg crosswind.
kraigwy said:
Amen brother.
Attachments
grubbylabs
New member
I could do it.
grubbylabs
New member
Eyes closed and with a pistol
No problem
No problem
phil mcwilliam
New member
Gbro, Australia is metric but once youre in rural areas people still talk in acres & yards. My mate has owned this cattle property for 18 years & I probably have averaged a weekend hunting there every 6 weeks over this time. Needless to say, I know this property & surrounding properties extremely well. The canyon that these guys were looking up is accessible by a 4x4 track that loops around the back & my usual method of hunting goats is to ride my old Honda XR250 dirtbike up to the top of this canyon & then stalk the goats.
I consider a "long range" shot for myself anything over 300 yards, and have taken plenty at that distance with both my Sako 22-250 & 308, but I guess most of the feral goats I have shot have been at distances of 25 to 150 yards. Because of their numbers feral goats in this area are easy to shoot, but also have to be culled. It is common to be culling a herd of a dozen goats in this canyon area, only to have several more small herds of upto a dozen cross through this area within the hour.
I only posted this story because it is very much different to the type of hunting/ shooting that Ive ever been involved with. I know a guy that has won medals shooting Queens Birthday shoots ,where they shoot at 600 yards & 1,000yard targets with Omark 303 rifles fitted with aperture sights. Ive also known professional fox shooters that can shoot the eye out of a fox at 200 yards with a 17rem to save a pelt from damage. As a matter of fact Wayne, the manager of this property is also a part time professional-kangaroo shooter & has paid off a second hand Toyota Landcruiser with kangaroos at $20 a roo.
But we were all amazed at what this auto electrician & his mate were capable of with their very specialised equipment.
I consider a "long range" shot for myself anything over 300 yards, and have taken plenty at that distance with both my Sako 22-250 & 308, but I guess most of the feral goats I have shot have been at distances of 25 to 150 yards. Because of their numbers feral goats in this area are easy to shoot, but also have to be culled. It is common to be culling a herd of a dozen goats in this canyon area, only to have several more small herds of upto a dozen cross through this area within the hour.
I only posted this story because it is very much different to the type of hunting/ shooting that Ive ever been involved with. I know a guy that has won medals shooting Queens Birthday shoots ,where they shoot at 600 yards & 1,000yard targets with Omark 303 rifles fitted with aperture sights. Ive also known professional fox shooters that can shoot the eye out of a fox at 200 yards with a 17rem to save a pelt from damage. As a matter of fact Wayne, the manager of this property is also a part time professional-kangaroo shooter & has paid off a second hand Toyota Landcruiser with kangaroos at $20 a roo.
But we were all amazed at what this auto electrician & his mate were capable of with their very specialised equipment.
Last edited:
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
It seems to me that if one only looks at the 1,840 yards aspect and ignores the totality of the whole affair, one's comments are at best irrelevant opinion.
For example, I enjoy prairie dog shooting. But in no way do I regard that as "hunting". It's just shooting of a somewhat pestiferous creature. I have no qualms about trying for good-eye guesstimate shots at 300 to 400 yards. (So far, so good, however.)
Feral critters? Outright pests? Sure, I'll always try to use hunting skills as may be necessary, and always try for a clean kill-shot. However, those are animals which will not leave me with the same sort of bad feeling as if I had messed up with a true game animal.
Seems to me, however, if you were to castigate a shooter who'd just made a clean kill at those distances as referenced in the opening post, you'd likely get laughed at. He might wonder if you'd go tell Michael Schumacher how to drive an F1 car.
For example, I enjoy prairie dog shooting. But in no way do I regard that as "hunting". It's just shooting of a somewhat pestiferous creature. I have no qualms about trying for good-eye guesstimate shots at 300 to 400 yards. (So far, so good, however.)
Feral critters? Outright pests? Sure, I'll always try to use hunting skills as may be necessary, and always try for a clean kill-shot. However, those are animals which will not leave me with the same sort of bad feeling as if I had messed up with a true game animal.
Seems to me, however, if you were to castigate a shooter who'd just made a clean kill at those distances as referenced in the opening post, you'd likely get laughed at. He might wonder if you'd go tell Michael Schumacher how to drive an F1 car.
Well - is it any different from my last hunt? I stumbled upon the last big game I shot. I think the range -might- have been 15 yards? At least bullwinkle didn't trample my guts out... But how sporting was stupidity meeting dumb luck?
My thoughts? If you have the skills to pay the bills at the range you take your shots at? Good on you. Who's to say that a few grand or even tens of thousands spent on optics, range finders, etc is any more or less worthwhile than putting it in a custom gun? We all know how much dough that can suck up.
If the caliber being used, combined with your ability to place the shot results in a humane kill? Good on you. I'm not sure anything less than 50BMG has the energy required for 1600M + shots but I'd have to check ballistics.
If you shoot from the ground or legal stand (not the back of your SUV), unassisted (no remote control guns), at unpressured game in its natural environment (no cages)? Good on you. I don't see a problem here.
My thoughts? If you have the skills to pay the bills at the range you take your shots at? Good on you. Who's to say that a few grand or even tens of thousands spent on optics, range finders, etc is any more or less worthwhile than putting it in a custom gun? We all know how much dough that can suck up.
If the caliber being used, combined with your ability to place the shot results in a humane kill? Good on you. I'm not sure anything less than 50BMG has the energy required for 1600M + shots but I'd have to check ballistics.
If you shoot from the ground or legal stand (not the back of your SUV), unassisted (no remote control guns), at unpressured game in its natural environment (no cages)? Good on you. I don't see a problem here.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
My more cynical moments have me mumbling, "Them that can, do; them that can't are critics."
Face it: There are some self-styled hunters who couldn't stalk Helen Keller. Some pistoleros for whom IDPA means, "Incompetence Doesn't Protect Anything."
One shot, meat in the pot: How do you improve on that?
Face it: There are some self-styled hunters who couldn't stalk Helen Keller. Some pistoleros for whom IDPA means, "Incompetence Doesn't Protect Anything."
One shot, meat in the pot: How do you improve on that?
themusgrat
New member
If you're harvesting the meat, is there any difference between having fun killing an animal from 10 yards or 1840? The word "hunting" has always implied a sense of sport or fun, but there was a time when it mainly meant "to go out, kill an animal, and put food on your family's table." Only in modern times have people started to take "hunting" as "go out and have a fun while maybe killing an animal."
If you could have told Davy Crockett that in 2010 one would be able to 3 shot 3 infestatious goats at a range of 1840 yards, I'm betting he would have said something like "That's amazing." He was one of the first true specialized long range shooters after all. You all going to bash Davy Crockett for trying to make long shots?
If you could have told Davy Crockett that in 2010 one would be able to 3 shot 3 infestatious goats at a range of 1840 yards, I'm betting he would have said something like "That's amazing." He was one of the first true specialized long range shooters after all. You all going to bash Davy Crockett for trying to make long shots?
hickstick_10
New member
1840 yds
your REAL good when you can shoot the rope that's tying it to the tree