Long range rifle or AR

T

timelinex

New member
Ok, so not too long ago you guys helped me pick out a beginner rifle(marlin 795), and now I'm asking for your help again! In the next half a year to a year I want to buy another rifle, but I want to buy one on the used market for a good deal. So in other words, I want to start looking now since Im not in a rush and find a good deal. I haven't decided what I want yet, but a narrowed it down to two. What I want to know from you guys is what rifle should I be looking out for in each category. My price range is under 1000. So I think if I am looking for a good condition used, I can find something good.

The first type that I might want would be a hunting/long range rifle. I want to go hunting sometime so it can be used for that. Also I live near desert, so a lil more than an hour drive and im in open fields for 100-1000yrd shooting. (not saying I'll be able to, but just that I have that possibility so I want that option open). So from my research, If I don't want super expensive ammo I should stick with the .308. The only rifle I know of that fits this category is the Remington 700. That rifle is very accurate out to 1000 yrds even correct? I think for this category I would prefer a bolt action, but its not a must. Are there any other suggestions...

The other type is a AR15 type rifle. This one is pretty straight forward, any of the AR15 brands. and I know its still accurate enough for hunting when needed and the 5.56 is just big enough. Anything specific I should look for in a used one though? Also, any other suggestions of rifles that are like the ar15?

Unfortunately my knowledge of rifle models is very limited, and I only know the 'popular' ones... which I know aren't always the best , so thats why Im asking for you guy's help!
 
First I will ask what type of game will you be hunting? I personly wouldn't uses the 5.56 for anything larger the white tail deer. And in my opinon that is pushing its limits. If ammo cost is a factor then yes stay with 5.56 or .308. Around here where I live in ohio nice new ARs run under $1000! as for bolt guns look at Savage, Rem, and they both have nice rifles . If you stalk and hunt like I do the u should look for a sporter rifle. Target and benchrest guns tend to be a tad heavy to carry all day
Good luck
 
Thanks for the advice! So I guess the only thing I would ask is if you can be more specific... I know the main manufacturer names but I have no idea about any models, so just saying savage or remington just cuts it down to like 200 rifles.
 
You are asking about apples and oranges. Please bear with me and I will try to answer your question.

First, the AR.

I like the platform, but don't really like the caliber. The caliber is what I consider marginal at best for more than coyotes and dogs. With that said, it can be very capable, if the shooter is up to it, at hitting targets at up to 600 Yards. The problem is that the round tends to run out of steam, IMHO.

If you are looking for something to hunt with I would suggest changing not only platforms, but calibers. If you are looking for a home defense rifle there is some merit, I think, to using an AR for home defense eventhough I prefer the shotgun. The AR is also a fun range toy and varmint smacker.

The question then becomes which one? I'm of the opinion that if you are going to use it for defensive purposes that reliablity and quality are most important. While dated, I still contend that this article will help one to select a good AR that will serve you well. It may not be the flashiest, but it will get the job done.

http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?81462-So-you-want-to-buy-an-AR-15-huh

As for new or used, you can find a quality AR in your $1,000 price range quite easily. I paid a little more than $1,000 with shipping and transfer fees for my Colt 6920 bought new. Right now it's a buyer's market in AR's, so shop wisely. If this is a defensive tool I would urge you to buy new over used. Although you probably won't be buying somebody's worn out, shot out, needing rebarreling AR, why take the chance? Lots of folks out there do things to AR's that I wouldn't do, nor would I care to own their gun after they have. By buying new you eliminate that consideration from the start.

As to hunting rifles, that's another can of worms. I am in the southwestern desert and at this time own one dedicated hunting rifle. With it I can take antelope, buffalo, coyote, lion, bear, elk, mule deer, javalina, and coues deer. The caliber is capable of accuracy at 1,000 Yards but I'm not. My self imposed limit on game animals is 500 Yards, but I try to take game closer if I can.

So, what caliber am I talking about? The .308 of course. It may be a little "heavy" for some game, and "light" for other game, but it seems to offer the best compromise of all the calibers I could've selected. As to manufacturer, that's a tougher choice. I like older Remingtons, new Savages, and new Rugers. I went new with my rifle because as much as I like older Remingtons, I like the Ruger implementaion of the Mauser Extractor more. To me a dream rifle would be a Ruger with a Savage Trigger. As to which barrel, I don't notice a difference between the two.

Savage will be a little less exspensive, most likely. As much as I like buying used guns, if I can buy a new one for the same price at same or better quality, why not? In the desert, and longer range shooting your optics will play more of a factor than your rifle itself. My scope cost as much as my rifle, and the rifle wasn't cheap. I'd rather have a $300 rifle and a $600 scope than the other way around.

That's my $0.02. Good luck and keep us posted on how you do in your search for whatever you decide to search for.

Biker
 
BikerRN is giving you some very good advice. You are really talking about three different rifles. One for hunting, one for long distance and one plinking. Hunting ranges are seldom over 300 yards and a shorter barrel rifle is easyier to carry and generaly in a larger caliber such as 308, 270, 300 win mag, depending on how large an animal you will be hunting and at what range.

A good long distance rifle, is one that uses a fast light bullet at distances of 400 yards and beyond, this would be a 243, 22-250, 6mmbr or 260 caliber rifle. Exceptionaly accurate and fast moving, but tends to have a shorter barrel life.

An overall fun plinking gun would be a 223 in a bolt action or AR frame. Cheaper to shoot, easyier to find ammo for and can be used for hunting ground hogs, yotes, skunks, armadilos, or any animal about 75 lbs or less.

However, knowing that advise is worth what you pay for it (and this is free) you will go with what you like or feel best suits your desire. Purchasing a new gun is not about what you need, more like what you want.

The 308 will be a good choice, but an expensive one. Expensive to shoot (cost of ammo) and expensive to buy (Remingtons are not cheap). If you are going with a bolt action rifle, please look at the Savages first, while they cost less they are a better rifle with their Accutrigger.

For a fun gun, there is no beating the Black Rifle for pure fun and 223 is less expensive to shoot. Get one in 5.56 (no 223s). And make sure it is a 5.56. You can also use 223 in them, but not the other way around.

Your money, your choice, now get out there and handle all you can before making your choice, till you find one that yells "take me home", you will know it when you find the right one.

Jim
 
Take a look at some of the other calibers for the AR15 platform. 6.5 Grendel is becoming mainstream, 6.8 spc, plus many others. Then you have it's big sister, the 7.62 AR platform, AR10, DPMS, Noveske and many others.
 
At one point I had an AR which really was just a range toy. Now I have a Remington 700 ADL Varmint in 308. I paid $419 with the sale price and rebate from Remington. It is incredibly accurate. I don't worry about the cost for ammo as I reload. I am basically making this into a tactical hunter for lack of a better term. The barrel will be shortened to 20" which will still get me to 600yds easily for paper punching but will also give me a good deer rifle even for the somewhat extended ranges even though I really wouldn't take a shot past 250-300 yards. Eventually the stock will get swapped out to an H&S Precision, but there is no rush as I am already getting .59moa at 100yds. Now I just need time on the 200 and 300 yards ranges.
 
I'd go with either a standard AR-15 or an AR-10 in 308.

The main thing I think you need to consider is something you will shoot either way... who needs a gun that stays stuck in the back of the closet its/your whole life?
 
What ever you chose it should fit you, have good pointability, be comfortable to shoot and accurate. Most name brand rifles are more accurate than the shooter.

Buying a used rifle can be a dicey proposition, The belted magnums and burners like the 220 swift are subject to errosion and you can easily get a piece of junk if you don't know what you are looking at. If you go used, buy on condition that a compent gun smith check it out before money exchanges hands.

Good luck.
 
+1 with mad crate

I jumped on the AR-15 bandwagon over winter. I must say I am impressed. But the caliber options is what makes it sweet. Start with 5.56 upper and if you want to hunt you could slap a .50 beo upper on and shoot any game including a rabbit (volkswagon rabbit) and stop it dead in its tracks.

The only negative I must add is with any semi auto platform you go through way more ammo than a bolt gun would in target shooting. So I would get a few 5 round mags to target shoot with that will also help keep the heat out of your barrel.

If looking at a bolt gun savage model 16 weather warrior in .308 and a Nikon Monarch scope just do just fine for target and hunt.

I have a savage model 12 w/26" bull barrel in.223 and would never consider hunting anything but varmint with it you can't shoot the thing freehand. I'm 6'1" 250# built and I can't steady the rifle for more than 30 seconds just inpracticle for hunting.. You can however lay all day in a hay field waiting on woodchucks without breaking a sweat.
MY .02
Ryan
 
For what you state you want to do, I would go with an AR. For the budget, I'd get/build a lower with a standard A2 stock and then whatever trigger you feel like. Then drop on a new WOA upper, probably a 20".

The beauty of this setup is that you can be out the door under $1k and you now have the ability to shoot 55-80gr .223 rounds. The longer ones may need to be single loaded, but the barrel will shoot them. I would suggest a bolt rifle in .223 as well, but I have a hard time finding affordable ones that have a twist faster than 1:9". The longer bullets out there for the .223 are very similar trajectory wise to a .308. If you plan to shoot 600+ yards, these long heavy bullets are the key. You can shoot 55gr stuff just as well, which makes it a great platform to play/learn with as well as to them shoot seriously.

Cost in ammo is another big concern. Factory loaded .223 is a bit cheaper than .308. If you reload, the components are cheaper as well. Bullets cost about half for .223, brass is cheaper, and you use less powder per round in .223. All of this adds up leaning heavily for the .223 for a new shooter with a single centerfire rifle. If you want to hunt game with much size, the .308 is a better option. A properly placed .223 can do a great job, but there is no doubt that the .308 is a better deer size and up round. I suggest you consider how much you plan to hunt vs how much you plan to shoot. I quit justifying a rifle because it could be used to hunt as well. In reality, I shoot a deer rifle a couple shots a year at most. I shoot at paper for fun a lot more. If you want to hunt though, i would probably look more towards a .308.

If you can find a 1:8 or 1:7 twist .223 barrel on an affordable bolt rifle, that would be a great option. I personally haven't run across this yet so I stick to the AR platform.
 
Could you tell us what game u will be hunting and then i Could me spacific about the models.. like others said huntings rare shots go over 300 yards.. as for me I use a rem 700 vtr in .308 it has soild performance with me shooting it out 500 yards. Others may do better. Its light and well balanced.
 
So after doing more research I found the savage 10 series. These are extremely accurate rifles correct? The fp-sr series look almost perfect and the barrel is even threaded, so if I want a suppressor/brake/flash suppressor I can always put it on. The one downfall is I would really rather have a detachable mag. I found the precision carbine series has a detachable mag, but shorter barrel and not threaded. Are these good rifles? Is there something like the fp-sr but with a detachable mag.

Alot of you guys recommended that I can get an AR and even have different barrels with calibers big enough for hunting. The only problem with that is its not bolt, and I would want to get a bolt for a hunting/long range rifle.

I will probably not spend most my time hunting or using it tactically, but rather shooting targets at 200 yards, or farther when Im ready(as I said I live by desert so there is not a lack of space)
 
A Colt Match Target AR-15

77 gr matchkings over 24.1 gr RL-15 will have you hitting the center ring at 600 yards


Or buy an M1 Garand with a new barrel such as the ones AIM sells with the Krieger barrels.


OOOORRR

Buy a Swiss K-31, Swedish Mauser, or other fine C&R type rifles and learn how to use irons for long range shooting. Put the rest of the money into a good spotting scope from SWFA and plenty of ammo.
 
Reading your post I just wanted to comment, long distance shooting begins at 600+ Yards.

200 Yards is considered close, and that's where I sight my open sights at. Almost any rifle is capable of shooting decently at that distance. The real variances come in at longer distances.

Biker
 
Lol..imho..a 308 is a fine caliber for a medium to long distance shooting 200-800 yards is all I would want to shoot a 308 at..and hit repeatedly ...there are those that can shoot 1000+ yards with one and do it over and over again without luck coming into play...lol..I can on a good day but not most...and there is a huge difference between a ar15 and a 308 bolt gun...wouldn't want to clear a buildin with a bolt gun and wouldn't want to snipe with a carbine ...first thing u must do is pick your mission..know what u want to do first then select your gear accordingly...u asked about 2 specific tools that do two very different jobs...when I was growin up a 223 bolt gun was my big rifle...only needed for long range applications lol...we hunted with 22 rifles..not sayin what we hunted with them lol..but I never had anything run off..I would love to go elk hunting with a 223 bolt gun..I hate when people say it isn't powerful enough...I have yet to meet a animal I couldn't kill with one...precise shot placement is the key..and if u cannot do that then why are u shootin a rifle to begin with....when I was little I was given 5 bullets for my 22 rifle...4 of them was not to be shot unless I was in danger of a coyot or something 1 was for hunting...if the round failed to fire then I could use one of the other bullets...if I didn't bring back 4 bullets with a dead coyot or something with me I got the haydees beat out of me....I was taught the importance of shot placement and accuracy
 
IMHO, you CAN fill both interests with a single rifle--if you reload for it.

An AR-15 in 6.5 Grendel or 6.8SPC would serve for hunting and long-range shooting. HOWEVER, ammo for either is expensive, unless you reload. Then all ammo becomes about equally cheap.
 
well im not much into ARs especially for hunting (quantity of shots does not make up for quality of shots). I used to have a ruger m77 all weather in .270, killed my first elk with it and several other elk and deer. It was a very nice accurate rifle. Then my dad traded into a Remington 700 CDL in 25-06, this is a super accurate, super flat shooting rifle that has accounted for several deer and elk. Since it sounds like you are fairly new to shooting i would go with a quality bolt action (Remington 700, older Remington 600, Ruger M77, Winchester M70, or Savage (don't know much about them but ive never heard any one bad mouth one) and practice putting your shot where you want instead of wasting thousands of rounds in rapid fire. You should be able to find any of the rifles listed used in your price range with enough left over to buy a good scope. The Remington and the Savages are push feed while the Ruger and most Winchesters are controlled round feed, ill leave that personal preference up to you.
 
If you are new to rifle shooting, then I agree, you should start with a bolt action. The remingtons are great if you are serious about hunting or a cz 527 american carbine in the 7.62X39 might be a good choice; it is reasonably accurate and powerful enough to hunt most game, but certainly not a moose or bear. It is a lot of fun at the range. That would be my choice if I wasn't too serious about hunting. I would stay away from the semi-auto rifles untill you have more experience. Now if you really want to have fun at the range and still be able to hunt from less then 200 yards(realistically 100 yards or less) then a lever action .357 marlin or henry rifle is a good buy. 800 for the henry, maybe 600 or so for the marlin. The .44 caliber will take down anything that moves on land, inside of 100 yards.
 
Bolt action will save you some money, or it does for me ammo wise. When i shoot my AR i always end up shooting more than my bolt action. Get a 700 5R, or 700 sps varmint, or a 700p. Start out with that work your way up or go ahead and replace the stock. Then shoot the hell out of it. Later down the road rebarrel it with a custom barrel, get the action trued/blueprinted, and then you'll have one hell of an accurate semi custom rifle for long range shooting. By the time you feel need to replace the barrel you will have more than enough experience under your belt, especially using the .308. Go ahead and start out with top notch optics also. Don't skimp on the scope.

Also i have to suggest you get into reloading. It's cheaper and most of the time more accurate. If your really wanting to shoot long range you can do it with Corbon, black hills, Southwest ammunition, etc. But reloading is where you'll get the most accuracy out of your rifle.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top