Long Distance Handgun Shooting

I'm thinking velocity; therefore drop over 100 yards would be different, unlike at 7 yards............
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Yes, the drop is different, BUT, I just checked some drop tables, and for a 9mm 115gr JHP the difference in drop at 100yards, between one that starts at 1100fps and one that starts at 1300fps is about 3.5"

SO, if your practice ammo is doing 1100fps (and what 9mm load does that these days???) it will hit approximately 3.5 inches below the "premium" round doing 1300fps (IF the premium round actually does 1300fps...;))

Now, 3.5 inches more drop is a lot when you are shooting rifles at targets like ground squirrels which are 5-6inches tall. Its not a lot when you are shooting at man sized targets, and going for center of mass.

My PALM is about 3.5" wide. If you can't adjust for "four fingers" more drop at 100yds, you just need more practice. :D
 
Where can I find a table for drop of pistol cartridges at distance. I have always been curious. I have shot my 22/45 with red dot at 100yds. I was surprised to see how little drop and how accurate the pistol is at that range. I have tried many times to ring steel at 100yds with my 9mm 1911 (124gr from a ported barrel, 1100ish fps) and never been able to make contact with any consistancy.
About how much drop should I expect from the 1911?
Also i regularly shoot my scoped 460xvr at 100-150 yds and find that the accuracy is outstanding, clover leaf good.
 
The first table I found that covers this (to a point) was in an older Hornady manual.

Its in meters, and goes to 125m.

For a 124gr FMJ @ 1100fps drop from 25m zero to 100m is 12.4" And if you go to 125m, drop is 22.1"

If you are shooting a .45 230gr FMJ @850fps, your 100m drop is 21.1" and 125m drop is 37.2"!!!

Note how, with these rounds, the drop nearly doubles between 100 and 125 meters.

I have tried many times to ring steel at 100yds with my 9mm 1911 (124gr from a ported barrel, 1100ish fps) and never been able to make contact with any consistancy
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While fine and wonderful at shorter ranges, tilt barrel service class semi autos are not good choices for long range (100yds+) shooting. Fixed barrel guns tend to give better accuracy results at long range.
 
I too go to an inside range. Usually, now, start a 7 yds. then 10 yds. Always go to furthest,25 yds. going between my 2.25" and 4.2 " 357 Mag Rugers. Use 38 special P+ in my snub and mag loads now in the GP100.

The range master suggested that I use a different type of paper target besides the ordinary man's image. This target has a typical X in the center, but have smaller targets at all 4 corners. His suggestion, which I followed, was alternate top left, bottom right and so on. DA 90% of the time.
I don't have any desire to compete with anyone else except myself.


I hope, when I move next month I'll be able to shoot 100 yds.+.

Hope this helps.
 
While fine and wonderful at shorter ranges, tilt barrel service class semi autos are not good choices for long range (100yds+) shooting. Fixed barrel guns tend to give better accuracy results at long range.
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Really if you talk "service class" it's far more about the ground strap than fixed barrel vs tilting. I have several service class autos that shoot as good as my 4"Python or 686 do at long range.

And ammo can make quite a bit of difference especially at long range with service class handguns
 
ground strap
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?


I am not implying service class autos can't be used for long range shooting, only that they generally aren't the best choice. Tilt barrel or fixed, service class guns have usually have sights not well suited for long range work, and many do not have as much accuracy as desired.

if you've got one that can do 2-2.5" at 25yrds (and many of us do) that's good enough to make 100yds shooting a practical possibility. ON the other hand, many service class semis do 4-5" at 25yds, which makes for a much larger margin of error as distance increases.

Doesn't mean it cannot be done, just that it makes getting hits on smaller targets more difficult.
 
Ground strap, the part connecting the gun to the ground;)

ON the other hand, many service class semis do 4-5" at 25yds
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Much like most of the shooting world gone are the days where gun writers were excellent shots. Look no further than this thread most shooters today are tickled to keep shots COM on a full size silhouette at 25.

One of the biggest problems I see is guys actually knowing exactly where the gun is shooting at longer ranges. A 3-4" group centered an inch high at 25 doesn't look a lot different than one centered an inch low to most folks, but that difference is the difference between peppering a plate at 100 and hitting the dirt in front of it.
 
Mavracer...If a group center is 1 in high or low at 25 yds,it will be 4 in high or low at 100 yds.

I'll agree,a lot of folks skip the basics,and reasonable skill with a handgun seems unbelievable to them.Hitting at least close to the black on a 25 yd bullseye pistol target is a reasonable goal.

I'll tell you a cheat trick I use. Aim small,miss small. If I'm shooting far with a handgun,its not so good to hold the whole blade and part of the slide above the rear sight.Its not repeatable.

So,forget that.Don't shoot at the target!! I might shoot at a little rock 35 feet up the hill.Then see the impact,and adjust.Maybe to another little rock.

Once you get a reference aiming point that you hold a straight sight picture on,

that gives you hits,or near misses...You can have fun. Just don't tell!
 
Mavracer...If a group center is 1 in high or low at 25 yds,it will be 4 in high or low at 100 yds.
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See right there is the problem. Using a 9mm 115gr @1200fps a group centered 1" high at 25y will be ~4" low at 100 most still hitting a 12" plate and 1" low @ 25 will result in your bullets being about a foot low in the dirt like I said.
 
For a 9mm
a 124gr FMJ @ 1100fps drop from 25m zero to 100m is 12.4"

A 115gr @ 1200fps DROPS 10.8" below a 25m zero at 100m.

If a group center is 1 in high or low at 25 yds,it will be 4 in highER or lowER at 100 yds.
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Fixed that for ya! :)

See right there is the problem. Using a 9mm 115gr @1200fps a group centered 1" high at 25y will be ~4" low at 100 most still hitting a 12" plate
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No, sorry, you missed the mark. I think I know what you meant to say, but the drop involved with that 9mm load is about 11 inches, NOT 4 inches @ 100m. From a 25m zero.

If your group is centered 1" high at 25, and you aim for the middle of the 12" plate at 100, YOU WILL HIT DIRT. IF you aim for the TOP EDGE of the plate, you will hit the BOTTOM of the plate.

If your group is 1" LOW at 25, and you aim for the middle of the 12" plate at 100, you will hit dirt. If you aim for the top edge of the plate, you will most likely hit dirt or the very bottom edge of the plate. 11" (10.8") drop plus 1" low group center =12" (11.8") so by aiming at the top of the 12" plate and having almost exactly 12" of drop, (combined drop plus 1" low group center) your rounds will land at or very close to the bottom edge of the plate.

If I'm shooting far with a handgun,its not so good to hold the whole blade and part of the slide above the rear sight.Its not repeatable.
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I disagree. Holding up the front sight, and as much extra as needed is the method I use, it works well for me, and is repeatable, although some guns make it easier than others.

For example, my favorite long range pistol is my Ruger Blackhawk .45Colt 7.5" barrel. (its my favorite not because its the best for long range, but because its FUN) I know exactly how much front sight to hold up to ring the TWO HUNDRED yard gong on the rifle range. And, its repeatable, because the "sweet spot" is right where the front sight blade goes vertical.

One example of a gun that wasn't easily repeatable was a Browning HighPower that a friend had me try. I had to hold up to a point about an inch and a half back on the slide to get on target at 200 yds. BUT, the only reason it wasn't easily repeatable was because there was no reference mark.

Putting a mark on the gun (paint, tape, etc) would have made it easily repeatable. Elmer Keith had some custom sights made for some of his long range shooting, with inlaid gold bars at different spots on the sight blade, for reference marks. It works.

The method of simply aiming enough above the target to compensate for the drop ALSO works. BUT, usually this hides the target from the view of the shooter.

I hold up the front sight with the target perched on top of the post. In my younger days, when I could balance a dime on the front sight (and it stayed there, till the hammer fell) and the eyes of an eagle, ringing the 200yd gong (and offhand, to boot) was almost easy. Of course, 30+ years of practice with that one gun, one load, and at that distance might have had something to do with it...:rolleyes:

Now that age has taken a toll, I have the eyes of a rhino, and the steadiness of a calm Chihuahua, so its not quite so easy as it used to be, but I can still do it once in a while. :D And, I can still do it with any gun you hand me, allowing for a few ranging shots...;)
 
No, sorry, you missed the mark. I think I know what you meant to say, but the drop involved with that 9mm load is about 11 inches, NOT 4 inches @ 100m. From a 25m zero.
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Having your group centered an inch high at 25 yards isn't a 25 yard zero;)

And while the drop from the plane of the barrel is 11" the sights are 1/2 to 3/4 inched above the bore to zero the gun to the sights at 25 yards the plane of the barrel has to be tilted into the plane of the sights. With a 25 yard zero the bullet will only drop about 8" below the line of the sights.

Thanks again for showing my point though most folks won't recognize the difference.
 
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Having your group centered an inch high at 25 yards isn't a 25 yard zero
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It sort of is. You are "zeroing" the gun to hit at a specified point. You are choosing to make that point 1" above the point of aim.

My point is about the drop tables. The 25m "zero" is where the 25m impact is.

Drop from that point (25m) to 100m is 10.8" for the 115gr 9mm @1200fps.

On the tables, the actual "drop" at the muzzle is also listed.
115gr 9mm JHP 1200fps
Muzzle: -0.8"
25m: 0.0
50m: -1.2"
75m: -4.8"
100m: -10.8"
125m: -19.3"

Hornady handbook, 3rd edition

In this case, you can see that barrel (muzzle) location is taken into consideration, and that the position (height) of the sights does not matter to the bullet drop. Sight height matters when calculating line of sight vs. drop, but not to the actual drop of the bullet, which is going to do what gravity makes it do, no matter where the sights are.

I'm well aware of the mechanics, but we can get confused by terms used.

All barrels are "tilted up" (line of the bore) relative to the line of sight. The bullet, starting below the line of sight "rises", crosses the line of sight, arcs above the line of sight, then crosses it again as gravity pulls it down. The distance from the muzzle to the points where the bullet crosses the line of sight is where the gun is "zeroed".

That is one use of "zeroed". The other is "zeroed" is where the bullet hits the desired point of impact at the desired range, which may not be congruent with the point of aim. Sighting so the bullets hit 1" above the point of aim at X distance is an example. It's all the same thing, really, just different ways of talking about it.
 
SIGH

Part of the disconnect is I'm using a ballistic program and some of the parameters are slightly different plus I'm using yards. I changed my program to match my Hornady 3rd edition and yes now I show 10.9" however that's only the drop with a true 25M zero. If you raise POI to 1" above the line of sight the true zero point is 60M and the center of your group will only be 6.9" low.

Now move the target back ~10 yards to 100 yards gain a little elevation IE Wichita Ks is ~1300 ft and like I said
 
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How much of a part does loss of velocity play in bullet drop between 25 and 100 yards?
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Quite a bit.

Gravity is a constant. Velocity is bullet speed over the ground = time of flight to cover a given distance. The longer the bullet takes to go the distance, the further it falls.

While there are other contributing factors, the main reason higher velocity bullets shoot "flatter" (drop less) is because they get to the target quicker.
 
How much of a part does loss of velocity play in bullet drop between 25 and 100 yards?
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Initial velocity has much more to do with it than velocity loss over the that 75 yards.

Even going to extreme differences using a 200gr SWC 45 ACP VS a 208gr A-max 300 BO both starting at 1000fps there's only 1.3" difference in drop @ 100 yards 12.2" vs 10.9"
 
On the tables, the actual "drop" at the muzzle is also listed.
115gr 9mm JHP 1200fps
Muzzle: -0.8" 1200fps
25m: 0.0 1125fps
50m: -1.2" 1065fps
75m: -4.8" 1018fps
100m: -10.8" 975fps
125m: -19.3" 939fps

Hornady handbook, 3rd edition

Note how that while the rate of velocity loss slows down with each 25m step, the rate of drop INCREASES, due to the speed of the bullet being slower.

The slower speed means it takes more time to cross the next 25m, so acceleration due to gravity has more time to work, and therefore more drop.

using a 200gr SWC 45 ACP VS a 208gr A-max 300 BO both starting at 1000fps there's only 1.3" difference in drop @ 100 yards 12.2" vs 10.9"
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in this case, we have bullets of approximately the same weight, starting at the same speed, but a difference in drop at 100yds. Why?

Because there is a difference in velocity loss between the two, over that distance. The larger frontal area, of the .45 vs. the smaller, pointed nose of the .30 cal bullet mean differences in "drag" (air resistance) which creates a different rate of velocity loss for each one. Time of flight, over the same distance is different, (though not much) and is what gives the difference in drop.
 
Originally posted by SpareMag:

And going longer than 10 meters or so serves no functional purpose.
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I hunt deer using handguns as my primary weapon. Practicing @ 30 feet and less just does not cut it. I have my own private range and the closest target is 40 yards. Folks that come out to shoot handgun look at it and their mouth drops. They feel the need to walk up to within ten yards before they feel comfortable to shoot. Once they realize that 40 yards is not that far, they want to shoot at the 70 yard gong. I think many folks have the same perspective as you and thus they never practice at anything more than ten yards. Yet they think they need a weapon with high capacity to hold off those hoards of zombies that are coming. Zombies may be dumb, but they all won't run right up to the gun barrel. Some may hold off out to 25 yards until you run outta ammo.;)

Yes folks need to get good at 10 yards/meters before they move out to 25. But once they master 10, they really do need to back up. Long range handgun shooting greatly improves your close range accuracy too, especially when it comes to target acquisition for quick follow up shots. Not everyone needs to shoot 200 yard gongs with their Glock, but they also do not need to limit their accuracy to 10 meters, even when all they shoot is for SD.
 
100 meter shooting with 9mm pistols

Hi, we made a video where we shot at 100 meters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POUNNu92nHk

We placed some hits but standing free I think there would be only a litle chance.
I simply think pistols are not build for that, thats what rifles are for.

Gun Check Austria - The Austrian Gun Channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWlqzbHRMNAescEzDWzEiwQ
793418140800175
 
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