load development question, need some advice.

Mossberg Patriot and MVP, Ruger American's, Savage Axis, TC Compass, Rem 783, Marlin X7 (in no particular order) and several others are bottom dollar hunting rigs never intended to be worked on. I have a few of them and they get abused, loaned and hardly noticed. When they have a few thousand rounds on them, I sell them and get another. I have a Boyd's stock that is on it's third Ruger American barreled action. When done, back in the factory clean stock and on the sale block. They are, to me literally disposable bullet launchers. Their budget price and cut corners in components, fit and finish are literally what prevent me from spending money for upgrades on them. Add $200 and get a better rifle is my typical answer to complaints about the basement budget set of rifles.

Just my perspective having been, at one time, where you are.
 
I remember when I first started reloading and I thought if I could get a load or two shooting sub MOA with match bullets . I could load up some FMJ's for practice and be happy with 2 or 3 moa knowing the rifle can shoot sub moa . I could not have been more wrong . Once I started shooting sub moa ( factory rifles ) I could not except anything less .

My point , you say you're happy with the rifle ? It seems you're more happy to have a rifle and you want to improve it rather then actually happy with the rifle . That's OK really , we all have those rifles that we like having but they're not the best shooters . I can already see you want more from the rifle and I think HD is gently trying to tell you , that rifle is never going to satisfy you with out putting more money into it then it's worth.

I agree with you as far as the barrel , in part because it's new but more because the action is not the one you want if you're going to be changing them out . This is not to say it's not a good action IDK . My point is thinking of it like a 22lr that you want to tinker with . Do you buy a Ruger 10/22 or any other ? You get the Ruger because you can walk into any gun store and find good after market parts to improve it . Where as if you bought any other 22 , sure you can find parts but there aren't many compared to the Ruger .

The Savage action is the 10/22 of bolt guns , good and EVERYONE makes a barrel for them ready to go . If you plan to keep spending money you really should consider either a Savage action or a complete Savage rifle .

I have a factory Savage FCP-K model 10 in 308 that has 4k+ rounds down the pipe . Still shoots OK but it's time to change the barrel and really kick the gun up a notch to include a new stock . I can do this easily because it's a Savage where as yours once shot out is going to be limited in what you can find to improve it . You'll find stuff for sure that's not what I'm saying but you will almost certainly have to sacrifice somewhere even if that is only in price . where as If you had the 10/22 of bolt actions you can find anything you want at a good price pretty much at any time anywhere .

I and I'm sure others here are not trying to say you made or are making bad decisions . We are trying to help you make better decisions for the future that will greatly benefit you in the future .
 
I bought the rifle for 3 main reasons. I understood what it is, what it should do, and what I was getting into when I got it.

the reasons I bought it
reason 1. I got free 308 brass, and already load for 30-06, so same components except the dies, might as well have one
reason 2, it was reasonably priced at $670 if I remember right.
reason 3, it looked, and still looks great with the wood stock and fluted bolt.

Expectations
When I bought it my expectation was that it would probably be right around a 1moa gun with factory match ammo and maybe a hare under that with good hand loads. I expected 1.5-2moa with budget hunting ammo and around 1.5 moa with good hand loads using budget hunting bullets. I also planned to add the 20MOA EGW rail when I got it as I prefer one piece rails and the extra 20MOA is always a benefit IMHO.

What I did not expected
I did not expect to have to change the scope, but the vortex crossfire II was really bad IMHO. I don't consider that an expense for the gun though, because I can put my new optic on any gun. And I got almost all my money back when I sold the crossfire II.

I did not consider the wood stock as a possible issue. It has sadly, been a while since I had a new gun with a wood stock. In the past I have found that bedding a wood stock is almost a must. I should have anticipated it, but I did not.

The trigger IMHO is terrible. My buddy hates it as well. It is an accu-trigger type with the trigger blade. It had creep and does not break cleanly or consistently. The blade feels heavier than the break itself. There is no way to take it apart to clean it or work on it. It works, but I really don't like it.

In short, except for a couple short comings, not necessarily related to accuracy, it is generally meeting my expectations. It is a perfectly adequate hunting rifle. And it is more than good enough for my target/plinking work and to help me progress in my longer range shooting and precision reloading goals.

In short, its a practical stepping stone, and I am happy with that.

The stock is getting bedded, a new trigger is going in, and that's all the farther I am going. after that It will be time and money invested into time at the range.

Once I feel I have mastered the gun, and gotten reasonably good with my longer range skills, it will be time for a proper target rifle. But at this point I feel that a proper precision rifle is well beyond what I need for my abilities.
 
Last edited:
Stop spending money , you can’t buy your way to better shooting .
Click to expand...
I'm still trying to spend my way to better shooting. :D Finally I've learned that something as basic as how I hold the gun--consistently--probably is the single biggest factor in how well I shoot.

That said--and I hate to pick on the patriot--but of all the low-end budget guns that one is one of the worst engineered ones IMO. The scheme of flexible magazine holder for "bedding" the receiver is a non-starter in my book. I'd look to see if there is an aftermarket stock with better bedding and pillar support and ditch that one.
 
Last edited:
stagpanther said:
I'm still trying to spend my way to better shooting. :D Finally I've learned that something as basic as how I hold the gun--consistently--probably is the single biggest factor in how well I shoot.

That said--and I hate to pick on the patriot--but of all the low-end budget guns that one is one of the worst engineered ones IMO. The scheme of flexible magazine holder for "bedding" the receiver is a non-starter in my book. I'd look to see if there is an aftermarket stock with better bedding and pillar support and ditch that one.
Click to expand...
I had not considered a new stock. I agree the magazine well setup is an issue I will have to work around. But I think I will still be able to get it bedded ok and work around that particular issue. trying to bed it is a LOT cheaper than a new stock.
 
Shadow9mm said:
the reasons I bought it
reason 1. I got free 308 brass, and already load for 30-06, so same components except the dies, might as well have one
reason 2, it was reasonably priced at $670 if I remember right.
reason 3, it looked, and still looks great with the wood stock and fluted bolt.

Once I feel I have mastered the gun, and gotten reasonably good with my longer range skills, it will be time for a proper target rifle. But at this point I feel that a proper precision rifle is well beyond what I need for my abilities.
Click to expand...

I hope that price is an error. The packaged Patriots are like $350 to $400. For $670, you did have a lot of choices. Scopes in the package deals are typically not very good.

Once you get it dialed in, I'd seriously just practice sucking up the parts you don't like and overcome those. It will make you a better shooter down the road.
 
MarkCO said:
I hope that price is an error. The packaged Patriots are like $350 to $400. For $670, you did have a lot of choices. Scopes in the package deals are typically not very good.

Once you get it dialed in, I'd seriously just practice sucking up the parts you don't like and overcome those. It will make you a better shooter down the road.
Click to expand...
Got the rifle end of march. Pretty sure the price was correct. but 308 guns were super scarce. checked 3 local shops. only about 6 to 7 308 rifles between them and several did not fit my needs. 1 AR 10. 1 used Tikka that they were asking $800 for, another patriot, synthetic stock no scope for $600. A used mossberg MVP with a light 16in barrel. And a couple Bergaras that looked super sweet, camo stocks, bronze colored heavy target barrels. but no scope and they started in the 750 range and would not have been good for hunting.
 
Nathan said:
Jard makes a trigger for it.

Which stock do you have?
Click to expand...
I looked at the Jard trigger but the heaviest they have is 20oz (1.25lb). Since is also a hunting gun I am a little skittish to go that light

I am looking at the Timney in either a 2 or 2.5lb.

It has the wood stock. This is how she looks right now.
attachment.php
 
Last edited:
Right pretty rifle

I thought patriots had a adjustable trigger. You can do 2 - 7 pounds. See page 5 and 6 of your owners manual or just look here

http://www.mossberg.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/100136-MVP-OWNERS-MANUAL.pdf

some basics before bedding the stock, do the dollar bill test to check to make sure the barrel is not touching the wood anywhere. Invest in a good torque screwdriver to play with action screw settings

edit The Vortex torque screwdriver is excellent for the price, I have it and both the mechanical and electronic Wheeler. If you really want a Wheeler go mechanical, the electronic version sucks. You will need one of these for all your rifles and scopes if you pursue the sport, might as well buy now

https://www.sportsmansguide.com/pro...76AW_vieQW4AOgErTSgaAqu9EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Like I keep saying though, that factory barrel is the big choke point. Best trigger, stock, and load in the world will not overcome a bad barrel and Mossbergs are not known for thier quality barrels.
 
Last edited:
I agree with the bipod and and rear bag suggestion. It is my preferred way to shoot both heavy and lighter guns. I have seen ES and SD numbers open up when shooting off of bags only. It is more difficult to hold the rifle the exact same way every time.

I will take my Browning out this weekend in 308 and test it with identical ammunition from the bags and the bipod for giggles. I will report my results here.
 
I shot prone off a bi-pod yesterday for the first time in at least 2 years maybe 3 . Sometimes you forget how fun things can be . I really have not been shooting rifle much in the last 3+ years . Got into pistol reloading and my main shooting buddy is a pistol guy so that's what I've been shooting the last couple years . He came out yesterday but left with in an hour , like I said he's not a rifle guy . Yesterday reminded me how much I miss shooting rifle . Only was shooting out to 300yds but that was fun . Shot both bolt guns and semi's , I was out there for 5 hours all by my self and loved every minute . Dialed in ( to 300yds anyways ) two new scopes and loads . I think I'm ready to come back home to the shooting I love , RIFLE shooting !!!
 
I often shoot in F Open using a bipod and a bunny ear bag instead of using my rest. Much easier to tote back and forth to the line. That is prone though, I find a bipod awkward shooting from a bench. That is just me though
 
Bi-pod on a bench tends to hop because you can’t load it . Which results in larger groups for me . At least that’s been my experience others may have different results.
 
Bi-pod off the bench...I use a rear CrossTac bag (they have a heavy and light, I use heavy for bench) and load the bi-pod. That is usually just a wood board clamped to the bench.

If I can't do that, then with either my left hand if shooting close, or with a paracord loop around either my arm or foot, put downward force on the bi-pod sufficient to lock the rubber feet to the benchtop. Got to stop the hop. :)
 
hounddawg said:
Right pretty rifle

I thought patriots had a adjustable trigger. You can do 2 - 7 pounds. See page 5 and 6 of your owners manual or just look here

http://www.mossberg.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/100136-MVP-OWNERS-MANUAL.pdf

some basics before bedding the stock, do the dollar bill test to check to make sure the barrel is not touching the wood anywhere. Invest in a good torque screwdriver to play with action screw settings

edit The Vortex torque screwdriver is excellent for the price, I have it and both the mechanical and electronic Wheeler. If you really want a Wheeler go mechanical, the electronic version sucks. You will need one of these for all your rifles and scopes if you pursue the sport, might as well buy now

https://www.sportsmansguide.com/pro...76AW_vieQW4AOgErTSgaAqu9EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Like I keep saying though, that factory barrel is the big choke point. Best trigger, stock, and load in the world will not overcome a bad barrel and Mossbergs are not known for thier quality barrels.
Click to expand...
yes she is, that's one of the main reasons she came home with me. But she has been a fickle mistress so far.

The trigger does not go up that high. The screw was flush with the housing(all the way in I believe) from the factory and it was at 2.75lb. I screwed it about 1/2 way out and it dropped to 2.0lb even. I may try tightening it all the way and see how heavy she goes. But at 2.75lb it had a bad issue with cream right before the break and it was giving me a wicked flinch.

The barrel is over free floated. it has close to 1/8in all the way around

I have the wheeler torque screw driver. Works pretty well. however Mossberg recommends 25in lb on the action screws. I have done some looking and some people have pushed up to 35in lb. but lots of people have broken the floating mag well too....

All I am asking is for the barrel to hold moa. It has done just a hare over MOA with factory match ammo. I am hoping my hand loads tuned to the gun will give me consistent MOA. If not I can deal with 1.16moa for a while.
 
kilotanker22 said:
I agree with the bipod and and rear bag suggestion. It is my preferred way to shoot both heavy and lighter guns. I have seen ES and SD numbers open up when shooting off of bags only. It is more difficult to hold the rifle the exact same way every time.

I will take my Browning out this weekend in 308 and test it with identical ammunition from the bags and the bipod for giggles. I will report my results here.
Click to expand...
that's interesting.... I may look into a cheap bipod. but I want to try my other idea first.
 
Shadow9mm said:
that's interesting.... I may look into a cheap bipod. but I want to try my other idea first.
Click to expand...
I bought a Caldwell Bipod for like $60 at a local store and I actually like it. You don't have to have a $300-$500 Atlas or some other bipod to shoot well.

I use a Leather bunny ears bag, filled with sand, that is made locally to me. Can't remember the name, but they are excellent bags.
 
You might just pull it off Shadow, these 3 shot groups don't mean squat but there is potential there. I had not really looked at this target close, I was more interested in the velocity data than the group sizes. I was surprised when I scanned the pic into OnTarget and actually looked at the group sizes

These were just three shot groups and three shot groups don't mean squat but I will load some more up @ 44.2 and shoot some 5 shot groups. These were shot off a cheap bipod and bunny ear bag. Big Horn action, KRG bravo stock, Savage 10 barrel with around 300 rounds down it that had been sitting in the corner since 2016. I have another similar length barrel on order but if this one can hold up for 10 rounds at a time I may just leave it on

Pic of the rifle, the Savage barrel and the best groups of the velocity test
 

Attachments

  • rifle.jpg
    rifle.jpg
    70.4 KB · Views: 13
  • barrel.jpg
    barrel.jpg
    58.1 KB · Views: 14
  • velocity test cropped.jpg
    velocity test cropped.jpg
    116.8 KB · Views: 14
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top