Libertarian … Yes / No … sell me one way or the other

S

Scott Evans

Staff Alumnus
Feeling the frustration of this latest round by our so called Reps. Maybe a move to a new party will have more effect.

Libertarian?

If you would, please give me your thoughts.
 
Scott,

A vote for a third aprty is a wasted vote. Can you say Ross Perot? Thanks to him, we have had two terms of Slick Willy. Need I say more?

Joe
 
Scott, I am really leaning toward the Libertarian party. I have voted for Libertarians in the past and will do so in the future. From now on, I will not vote for anyone that does not show me he/she is serious about protecting the 2nd Ammendment. I don't care about their thoughts on taxes, abortion or other topics. Those can be taken care of later.

***************
Actually, I am more leaning toward the Manila Hemp Party. Let's invite the sell outs to attend. :)

------------------
Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
 
Scott, the only wasted vote is one for your political enemy, in this case, Republicans. The only thing that keeps libertarians from office is the type of thinking that says any vote for a thrid party is wasted. Can you say, Jesse Ventura? Voters have trapped the third largest party in the U.S., the Libertarians, by saying, "they can't win because nobody votes for them, so I won't for them because they can't win." A little circular, don't you think?

If you are interested in hearing more from a libertarian perspective, I highly recommend Vin Suprynowizc's articles, and you can get them emailed to you, free. Check out: www.infomagic.com/liberty/vinyard.htm

------------------
"The only good bureaucrat is one with pistol at his head. Put it in his hand and it's goodbye to the Bill of Rights." H.L. Mencken


[This message has been edited by Ipecac (edited May 16, 1999).]
 
Libertarians. I'll vote for them. How can I act against my conscience? I am afraid that many Americans are afraid of that much freedom, though. (IE the liberty that I espouse and the Libertarians promote.)
 
Ipecac, you have made an EXCELLENT point! A person cannot just "accept" the parties "provided" to him/her. Instead, it is up to us as voters to create and support candidates and political parties who share the same philosophy as we do. Jesse Ventura is an example of people ignoring the "My vote doesn't count" or "Voting for a third party is futile" attitude which the press tries so hard to instill in us. The current actions of the Republicrats in the Senate have secured my belief that voting for Republicans will only slow down (at best) the objectives of Clinton, Schumer, Feinstein, etc. The Libertarian party has my vote! I would also like to say that I visited Vin Suprynowizc's site and have registered for his newsletter. Great Site!!
 
How many gun control bills has the Senate passed since Clinton has been in office? Its become obvious that a Republican majority in the Senate is doing little to protect our 2nd Amendment rights.

[This message has been edited by bronco61 (edited May 17, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by bronco61 (edited May 17, 1999).]
 
nralife, how is a vote wasted, when you vote for the person you think is best for the job! i thought that was what you were supposed to do. to me, a wasted vote is when you vote for someone just because of the party they are with. it should be clear that the two parties we have now are not on the side of the citizen. the two party system is
a farce, there is really only one party, the greed party. the what's in it for me party.
the how do i get re-elected party. the parties we have now are just concerned w/ how to strenghten the party, not with what is best for the country. i'm all for bombing
D.C. and starting all over again!!! yes, i know there are a few that want to do right by the people in both parties, but they are way too few, and are too scared to make a stand!!!! and so on, an so on,.........

------------------
fiat justitia
 
Yes , indeed... there are 40 million gun owners in possession of over 60 million guns. If we all voted fo a Libertarian , who do you think would win?

Hell there were only 56 million votes cast last election....

The libertarians , want nearly no government... as did our forefathers.
The federal government is only supposed to have 8 functions under the Constitution,
so we have ummmm 150 plus federal departments or agencies....what's wrong with this picture?

They are all about personal responsibilty and accountablity... just what we need right now!

And if you study your history, you'll see that ol' Ross the little general, was a ringer put up to win votes away from the Republicans. Just like Teddy Roosevelt was put in to do against Taft , so that they could get Coolidge to win , and they owned him. History showed that the Coolidge big money are the same ones who supported Roosevelt. Then after 'the liitle general' ran we picked up white house doc's off the web from the Senate investigation , that showed the Perot's company was in on the "medical scandle" that Hillary was perpetrating... he would have won a 200 million dollar gov contract to provide software for the fed medical insurance scam.

I'll take the libertarian's just to punish the Republicans , who apparently didn't learn their lesson in 92. And also, to vote my conscience.

------------------
What part of "INFRINGED" don't they understand?
 
Look folks, here's how practical politics works: The politician is trying to assemble enough voters to make a majority, and he has limited resources and time. If he knows that a group of people are already committed to vote for him, does he expend those limited resources making them happy? No, that's a waste. He puts his real effort into wooing the voters whose minds aren't made up.

How does this apply to us? The Democrats have sold their soul to the gun control movement, so no gun owner who really CARES about the Second amendment votes for Democrats. (Even a supposedly pro-gun Democrat like John Dingle will be pressured into betraying us on key votes, and will be voting for a leadership in Congress who are themselves anti-gun.) If we're committed to voting major party, that leaves only the Republicans. So our votes are not "in play", because, excluding third parties, we've got nobody but Republicans to vote for.

Result? A "sensible" Republican will treat us like dirt, because what can we do about it? Let Democrats get elected, to treat us even worse? So long as we gun owners are committed to the two party system, the best strategy for the GOP, according to conventional political thinking, is to be just a bit less anti-gun than the Democrats, so that they get our votes, while not offending the anti-gunners. Does this explain recent history?
 
There was a remarkably insightful "The Simpsons" episode that poked fun at the two-party system: It seems that two horrible bug-eyed aliens decided that the best way for them to take over the planet was to be elected President of the United States. So they disguised themselves as the Democratic and Republican candidates and proceeded to tell America all sorts of ridiculous lies in order to win the election. At a press conference on the eve of the election, Homer manages to expose the candidates as the horrible alien monsters that they are. They laugh off their discovery, however, saying "What are you going to do? It's a two-party system! You have to vote for one of us!" A voice from the audience says "I'll vote for a third-party candidate!", and the aliens laugh and say "Sure... THROW your vote away!" The episode ends with the Simpson family enslaved along with the rest of the world, building great stone monuments to the glory of the new alien emporer. Homer says "Don't blame me, I voted for Krag!"
 
I'm with nralife. On a practical level, in the here and now, I figure a Libertarian vote will help elect Al Gore, just as a vote for Perot helped elect Clinton. I might prefer a Libertarian to a Republican, but I sure prefer a Republican (other than Ms. Dole) to a Democrat, at least, a DNC-type Democrat.

Texas elected a Libertarian, Ron Paul, to Congress. But Congressman Paul ran as a Republican. That, to me, is the only way to get a Libertarian to Washington in a two-party system that is as entrenched as ours will be for the foreseeable future.
 
Jimmy, a simple question, which you ought to ponder: Look at the Republican Senate's behavior of the last few days, and tell me: Just exactly how deep will they have to plant the knife before you DO decide to vote third party?

You see, the problem with your approach is that we no longer have an anti-gun major party, and a pro-gun major party. We have a major party, the Democrats, who want to take our guns away fast, and a major party, the Republicans, who want to take them away slowly. (And for political reasons don't want to admit it, of course, because they still want our votes, even as they're screwing us.) But they're both taking us down the same road, and the destination is the same. How anti-gun will the Republicans have to get, (Keeping in mind that the Democrats will always be worse.) before your logic no longer applies? And will there be anything at all left of our rights by then? The problem with your logic is that it would apply equally if the Democrats proposed executing us, and the Republicans simply wanted to chop off our trigger fingers. At SOME point, you have to stop voting for the lesser of your two enemies, even if it does mean you risk electing the worse of them.

Oh, and yes, Paul got elected as a Republican, despite every effort of the Republican party to prevent it, including aiding his Democrat opponent. He got elected because he has support coming in from the entire country! The Republican party is a VERY hostile to pro-freedom candidates, as I have cause to know. (Having run as part of a pro-gun slate of precinct delegates, back in '94; The slate members who won were ejected from the Republican convention by police, and the losers certified in their places.)
 
This is a discussion that can continue forever because both sides are almost right.
We need to elect Libertarians but right now the Libertarian vote is wasted.

What we need to do is to organize ALL the gun owners and THEN vote Libertarian.
Would THAT be considered a Majority?

------------------
Better days to be,

Ed
 
The franchise is the exercise of sovereign authority in America. With sovereign authority comes sovereign responsibility. Responsibility you share both with the other sovereign citizens who voted for a particular candidate and with that candidate. Responsibility for the actions of that candidate. Those of you who voted for Reagan share responsibility for his signature on the bill to ban ownership of new machine guns. Those of you who voted for Bush share responsibility for his executive orders and ultimately for Ruby Ridge. I'm not going to get into what you who voted for Willie share responsibility for.

I "wasted" my vote? I voted Libertarian. I voted for people who share my belief in individual liberty right down the line. I share none of the responsibility for the actions of the scoundrels of both the Democrat and Republican parties who are busily destroying individual liberty.

Go ahead, vote Republican, see what it gets you. No, I haven't "won" by electing my candidates to office. I have won by not having ANY of the blood of Vicky or Samuel Weaver on my hands. I have won by not having ANY of the Waco victims' blood on my hands. (I include the LEO victims here also before any of y'all's knees jerk and break your chins)
 
Brett--I probably agree with you more than I disagree. And I realize that the arrogance and elitism that would deprive ordinary citizens of the power of arms cuts across Republican and Democrat party lines. Mrs. Dole has proven that a Republican can demagogue with the worst of the Democrats.

Be that as it may, the bottom line for me right now--simplistic and short-sighted though it may be--is that I don't want to help elect Al Gore to the presidency by casting my vote for a third-party candidate. I note that Woodrow Wilson was elected in 1912 due to Teddy Roosevelt's third-party race. Clinton was elected in 1992 thanks to Ross Perot's bid. Gore will be elected in 2000 if a substantial third-party effort takes votes away from Bush Jr. or whoever the Republican candidate is (hopefully not Mrs. Dole). One day I may consider voting for a Libertarian presidential candidate, but only after Mr. Gore is back on his "farm" in Tennessee.

Anyway, I appreciate your input.

[This message has been edited by jimmy (edited May 18, 1999).]
 
hey Jimmy,
Dont count on algore going to his family farm when and if he loses......he's never been there except for visits anyway, he has lived in some hotel in dc almost his entire life...yet he's a good ole boy...bullpatookey.

libertarianism....dosent this cut both ways, In my view the republicians should have been more libertarian in there views, but there not. I think that electing libertarians through the republican structure could be the best way to revitalize that organization....remember that freshman class and the contract with america---as long as their leadership didnt hold them back they got a lot done, in the house, Lott's is a different kettle of fish. Is the structue of an organization necessary to govern in our system?,,,,If we elect libertarians on there platform, we will have in effect two smaller weakend parties and one large democratic party......who do you think will control our congressional houses?, what about the lack of national experience?, The liertarians could gain that experience through the republican party and it would at the same time help to revitalize the republicans while allowing the libertarians to develop there own coalitions...fubsy.
 
Here is a quote from a lesser known Republican candidate:
"I am a strong supporter of the 2nd Amendment. The 2nd Amendment is still in the Constitution of the United States, contrary to what some elites would like us to believe."... "But above all, the Founders added the 2nd Amendment so that when, after a long train of abuses, a government evinces a methodical design upon our natural rights, we will have the means to protect and recover our rights. That is why the right to keep and bear arms was included in the Bill of Rights." Go to the sight below to see more. Maybe all republicans aren't as bad as we may think.
http://keyes2000.org/issues/secondamendment.html
 
No, the Republicrats aren't as bad as we think; they're worse.

fubsy-gain national experience? do you mean learn to screw the people who voted you in? That kind of experience we can do without. Besides, the system was set up to be run by citizen-statesmen, not professional politicians.

Let's bottom line this: until people start voting for third party candidates we are stuck with the status quo. Which means, we continue to lose rights. Brett was spot on in his analysis of the current political situation: the Repubs will continue to vote for gun control because they know there are enough folks out there who will continue to vote for them no matter what, because they are, "better than the Democrats."

Let's all wait until someone else elects a third party candidate, yeah, that'll work.

------------------
"The only good bureaucrat is one with pistol at his head. Put it in his hand and it's goodbye to the Bill of Rights." H.L. Mencken
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top