Lever gun caliber choices.

I haven't got much to add, other than keep in mind, the subsonic pistol ammo you're looking at may be super sonic out of a rifle length barrel, unless you are using the weakest of cowboy loads, or handloading...

BTW... my choice would be 45 Colt, if you are handloading, & if you can live with a single action, or have the patients or money to find a 45 Colt double action...

if not, but still handload, the 44 Mag would be my next choice... easier to find double action revolvers, & there are plenty of cowboy loads that would work through the rifle with a suppressor...

BTW #2... wish MN allowed the use of suppressors... I'd love to have a couple for my everyday range bolt actions...:(
 
keep in mind that 357 and 38 special have very different flight paths and points of impact at varying ranges. with that said, 357 would give you the most versatility. a 357 rated suppressor with a lever gun would be very quiet with 38 special and if you want something stronger and harder hitting for hunting purposes 357 can be very effective for deer. you also wouldn't have to buy another pistol to be combo with the rifle.


also, 45 colt is not all that impressive. it's essentially a 45ACP that can take heavier bullets. 44 mag/special would give you the same versatility as 357 but is a lot heavier hitting.
 
I have a 94 win saddle ring carbine paired with a Ruger Super redhawk, both in 44 mag. This makes an handy combo.

45 colt is fairly well matched with the 44 mag.

Both are quite impressive out of a rifle barrel and are very effective on deer and hogs inside hundred yards.

Boomer
 
Well, you are correct in that a lever gun that allows both calibers, as many handguns do, would enjoy some versatility from the 357MAG/38SPL and .44MAG/44SPL pairings. But it also means that when hunting subsonic, which is my purpose, we are not comparing the .45LC with 357MAG and 44MAG. We would essentially be comparing .45LC with 38SPL and 44SPL.

I am sure there are improvements to be had with any of these, but wouldn't the comparison look something like this?

.45Colt
255 gr (17 g) Lead SWC 961 ft/s (293 m/s) 523 ft·lbf (709 J)
200 gr (13 g) XTP 1,032 ft/s (315 m/s) 473 ft·lbf (641 J)
230 gr (15 g) XTP 969 ft/s (295 m/s) 480 ft·lbf (650 J)
250 gr (16 g) XTP 929 ft/s (283 m/s) 479 ft·lbf (649 J)

.38SPL
110 gr (7 g) JHP 980 ft/s (300 m/s) 235 ft·lbf (319 J)
130 gr (8 g) FMJ 810 ft/s (250 m/s) 189 ft·lbf (256 J)
148 gr (10 g) LWC 690 ft/s (210 m/s) 156 ft·lbf (212 J)
158 gr (10 g) LRN 770 ft/s (230 m/s) 208 ft·lbf (282 J)
200 gr (13 g) LRN 679 ft/s (207 m/s) 204 ft·lbf (277 J)

.44SPL
200 gr (13 g) SWC HP ¹ 870 ft/s (270 m/s) 336 ft·lbf (456 J)
246 gr (16 g) LRN ² 755 ft/s (230 m/s) 310 ft·lbf (420 J)

This looks to me like the .45Colt has a solid advantage if I am reading these numbers correctly. Now these .45 Colt figures will gain some speed out of a longer barrel, but we are talking a 12" barrel, not a 16" or 20" so I am sure there will be an impact, just not exactly sure.

And I do think there is a .454 Cassull Lever Gun out there, but I have the same issue as I do with Winchesters and Marlins, it'll cost more, and be more difficult, to cut down a rifle then to add a stock and thread a barrel on a pistol.
 
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maybe I'm just weird but I see don't see the point on subsonic hunting. I like the idea of a suppressor, no earplugs and no muzzle flash make for a great day at the range and even fun varminting but if we are talking about medium game on up I have no idea what would convince a person to intentionally download their cartridge which they intend to kill a four legged animal with. it doesn't matter what cartridge I'm using(unless it's something crazy like hunting deer with a 300 weatherby mag), I load as hot a possible to make sure the animal drops on the first shot. I would have thought this was everyone's opinion but apparently I was wrong.

now I would still hunt suppressed but I would still use hot loads rather than light subsonics. still a lot easier on the ears.
 
Boomer58cal, Do you think that 300g HXTP is going to stay at 1050 fps when fired from a 12" long barrel? I live in Arizona, I am thinking that subsonic ammo ain't going to stay subsonic out of such a gun in such weather conditions as we typically have here. And I am not sure the cost, but I am just betting they will run more then standard .45Colt ammo.
 
I have deer rifles for deer. I plan to hunt little wild piggies with this gun. I figure standard .45 Colt which is normally already subsonic should do just fine on a 30-45 pound piggy. Do you think it would be underpowered for the intended game?

I'll be in Arizona Mountain country within about 30 miles of the border. We get all kinds of activity out here. Game Wardens, Border Patrol, Illegals and their mules, drug runners, even National Guard. I'm thinking quiet hunting is the best kind of hunting to be doing these days, the less attention you attract the better.
 
Check to make sure hunting anything (even non-game stuff like pigs) is legal with a suppressor in your state.
 
Your right, I know they just passed a new law allowing suppressed hunting, but I don't know all the details yet.
 
Boomer58cal,Doyou think that300gHXTP is going to stay at 1050 fps when fired from a 12" long barrel? I livein Arizona,I am thinking that subsonicammo ain'tgoing to stay subsonicout of such a gun in such weather conditions as we typically have here. And I am not sure the cost, but I am just betting they will run more then standard .45Colt ammo.
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I was thinking chronographed handloads.

Boomer
 
I don't shoot that much, not nearly enough. I'll just buy a gun in a caliber where I can pull my loads off the shelf.
 
I said it once and Ill say it again. if you are going subsonic you need heavy bullets for large game the 45-70 or 450 marlin fit that bill well for a lever action. I have a post about shooting a deer with a 500 grain sub sonic bullet.

at 540 grains and 1050FPS my subsonic 45-70 gets 1321 FP of energy and a Taylor knock out rate of 37 (better than an average 454 from a pistol)fron the muzzle and at 150 yards its still well over 1000 foot pounds of energy.

I also have a wheel gun in the same caliber.

There are factory cowboy loads that are subsonic that run 405 grains.

now for commonly found ammo I think the 45 colts or a 44 special are your best bets but they are still not real common. 38 specials will be subsonic as well but for factory loads you are typically looking at 158 grains on the heavy end.

Most 357 magnums, 44 magnums and even some hotter 45 colts will not be subsonic from a rifle.
 
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Good info Deja Vu, but I don't think Javalina qualify as large game. They aren't big animals. Just a casual search it looks like most .45 Colt is running 200 - 250 Grain and I figure from those figure I posted 230-250 would be my target range to start with. The rifle's barrel is 12" which is 50% longer then an 8", but about 40% of the length of a full 20" rifle barrel typical of these lever guns.

I was pretty sure I had this thing figured out but wanted to see if you guys had something to throw my way I hadn't considered. Going with your 45-70 means I have to buy a full length rifle, spend much more to have the barrel cut down and threaded, and then there is the ammo thing cause there is no way I am loading my own. One of the Rossi Ranch Hands is a perfect base for the build but only comes in three calibers, 357MAG, 44SPL, 45Colt. 45Colt looks like a natural fit to me and at subsonic velocities will hit just as hard as any of the others, too easy.
 
The rifle's barrel is 12" which is 50% longer then an 8", but about 40% of the length of a full 20" rifle barrel typical of these lever guns.
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If I did my math correctly 12 is 33.4% more than 8 and 12 is 60% of 20 and 8 is 40% of 20. I am not sure if it makes a difference for what you are saying but I think those are the numbers.
 
If I did my math correctly 12 is 33.4% more than 8 and 12 is 60% of 20 and 8 is 40% of 20. I am not sure if it makes a difference for what you are saying but I think those are the numbers.
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Don't want to get too wrapped up in it, but we are both right and wrong. It could be a moot point though as depending on the load the round could achieve it's maximum velocity inside of the 12" and in fact gain no additional velocity in a 20", depends on the load I would think.

12 is definitely 50% more then 8 because 50% of 8 is 4, 8+4=12.

And 40% less(the word I omitted) of a 20, 60% of 20 is in fact 12.
 
My biggest concern with the Rossi Ranch Hand is build quality. I need to look at them more and do more research. I am thinking that many people find the Rossi Lever Rifles of good quality particularly considering their price compared to the price of the Winchester and Marlin 94 guns. And that a little work can improve their actions noticeably. I'll just have to see myself.
 
I haven't so much as laid hands on the Ranch hand

Not a big fan of the concept though. It's a niche weapon designed around a television show. I'm certain it has neither the qualities that make a single action revolver great nor the qualities that make a good 1892 carbine great. I could be wrong but, it seems more of a conversation or collector's piece than suitable hunting platform.

I have now. Makes a lot more sense now.
 
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Colt46, did you watch the video linked above?

We hunt Javalina out here with pistols during the season, I figure this will be even better.
 
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