Let them run, or hold them.

Depends on the situation.
If I have them covered and feel there I am no longer in danger while I call 911, I will detain them. If I am safer to escort them out of my Castle, or they have already turned tail, I will provide LE with as many details as I can.
And if I have to go to court for unlawful detention, my argument will be that my life was in danger if I let them go.
The whole judged by 12 or carried by 6 thing...
 
What you can legally do to hold someone will depend on the exact circumstances and the law in your jurisdiction.

If I ever find myself in that situation, if the BG chooses to stay, he may. If he decides to go for a stroll, he's welcome to do so.
 
In this area of the world you can use deadly force to protect yourself (or others under limited circumstances) from death or serious bodily harm. Without arrest powers I wouldn't even think of trying to detain somebody, probably be arrested for kidnapping or some such thing.

Milspec
 
Good posts----The only thing I can add is be a GREAT witness, the more precise you are in descriptions the better off you will be at any future court proccedings. I would advise to jot thing down even prior to calling 911 when the main thrust should be theFEAR FOR YOUR LIFE YOU FELT due to the actions of the BG especially on TAPED 911 line.
 
HOLD 'EM!!! In florida you can hold a person in the commission of a "violent felony" which I am positive is any case where I could feel my life and safety were at risk. I am legally allowed to use any level of force to hold the suspect. when they initially submit I will block the exit and if they try to flee they are coming at me thus lethal force to protect myself may be used and it is not shooting a fleeing BG...
Brent
 
Happened to me years ago...............

Back in the early 70's while living in northern San Diego county (Oceanside). It was about 10pm or so and my two younger brothers were out in the garage packing up the van as my brother was getting ready to head up to UCLA. My 2 daughters were asleep but my wife and my sister-in-law were in the family room watching TV. 2 members of a Mexican motorcycle gang entered the garage and began pushing my brothers around. My little brother ran into the house to warn me and the 2 "idiots" followed him into my home where they found me pointing my .357 revolver (with its 6" barrel) directly at their torso yelling at them to stop and don't move because if they did I would pull the trigger. My wife called the police and for what seemed like an eternity I held them at gun point until the police arrived - actually less than 5 minutes. The officers who came to the house 1 of them I went to high school with and the other I knew from college. They arrested the "idiots" and had to pry my fingers off of the trigger.

If anything like that were to ever happen to me again I do not think that I would hold them at gun point - they get into my house and I assume that deadly force is required to protect my loved ones. Inside the house they are shot / outside the house depending on their actions they either can run away or if they make a threatening move - I shoot to protect.
 
From hogdogs:

HOLD 'EM!!! In florida you can hold a person in the commission of a "violent felony" which I am positive is any case where I could feel my life and safety were at risk. I am legally allowed to use any level of force to hold the suspect. when they initially submit I will block the exit and if they try to flee they are coming at me thus lethal force to protect myself may be used and it is not shooting a fleeing BG...
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Coupla assumptions there....

Everyone I have ever known, or directly known of, who has gotten into trouble with respect to contractual, legal, and/or regulatory compliance had been supremely confident that he would be able to justify his actions completely. Most, if not all, had been completely convinced that they had been doing the right thing.

Things didn't work out exactly the way they had expected.

I think these are the relevant portions of the law--don't rely on that or on a lay interpretaton:

776.05 Law enforcement officers; use of force in making an arrest.--A law enforcement officer, or any person whom the officer has summoned or directed to assist him or her, need not retreat or desist from efforts to make a lawful arrest because of resistance or threatened resistance to the arrest. The officer is justified in the use of any force:

(1) Which he or she reasonably believes to be necessary to defend himself or herself or another from bodily harm while making the arrest;

(2) When necessarily committed in retaking felons who have escaped; or

(3) When necessarily committed in arresting felons fleeing from justice. However, this subsection shall not constitute a defense in any civil action for damages brought for the wrongful use of deadly force unless the use of deadly force was necessary to prevent the arrest from being defeated by such flight and, when feasible, some warning had been given, and:

(a) The officer reasonably believes that the fleeing felon poses a threat of death or serious physical harm to the officer or others; or

(b) The officer reasonably believes that the fleeing felon has committed a crime involving the infliction or threatened infliction of serious physical harm to another person.

776.07 Use of force to prevent escape.--

(1) A law enforcement officer or other person who has an arrested person in his or her custody is justified in the use of any force which he or she reasonably believes to be necessary to prevent the escape of the arrested person from custody.
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Emphasis added. Note the influence of Garner v. Tennessee.

Without consulting an experienced Florida trial attorney, I would not feel comfortable using the threat of deadly force to hold anyone, unless it were clearly immediately necessary to protect loss of life.

There's much to lose, and in my mind, little to gain.

I don't carry a badge, I am not indemnified, authorized, or paid by a county or municipality to enforce laws, and I haven't been trained in how to make an arrest.

I have a friend who is a former police officer who has a concealed carry permit. In his words, his gun will only come out when he is about to die.
 
When I was pulling Post Staff Duty Officer at Fort Riley I ran across a drunk carving up a picnic table with a combat knife. When I asked him to stop he started swinging the thing at me. I drew my .45 then backed off about 50 feet and called the MP's on my little radio. I suppose I could have placed him under apprehension and used whatever force was reasonably required to enforce my lawful order...but it was so much more fun watching the MP's beat the guy down with their nightsticks... :D

Milspec
 
Emphasis added. Note the influence of Garner v. Tennessee.

Without consulting an experienced Florida trial attorney, I would not feel comfortable using the threat of deadly force to hold anyone, unless it were clearly immediately necessary to protect loss of life.

There's much to lose, and in my mind, little to gain.
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Amen. Many people simply don't understand just how limited you are in using deadly force as a result of Tennessee v. Garner.
 
My PERSONAL policy is fixed in stone: let them run unless I'm 100% certain they've committed either murder, attempted murder, rape or attempted rape. (The latter two are influenced by the existence of AIDS and other serious STDs.)

I *think* that will pass muster under Garner.
 
Hold them

Holt them, it's the only way of making sure that they won't stab you in the back later on.

Make sure you carry your cell phone in a way that allows you to grab it an call 911 with your weak hand.

Put 911 on Quick dial on the three lowest buttons on your cell phone (makes callin 911 under stress much easier).

Good post, makes many of us us check our local laws.
 
Holt them, it's the only way of making sure that they won't stab you in the back later on.
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Really?

Well, maybe they won't take you out before they're apprehended... it happens.

And maybe the lookout or driver won't come around to see what's holding things up and shoot you from behind (had you considered that?)... it can happen.

And maybe you won't end up being arrested and charged.... it happens.

But how do you know they won't be released in short order, on bond or otherwise? It happens all the time.

I'd rather have them gone right away, give a description, let professionals pursue them, and give them as little motivation for retribution as possible.

Much to lose, little to gain.
 
Depending on the situation I would probably tell them to remain still and that any movement may be seen as a hostile one and I will fire. If they move and it is obvious they are retreating away from me and/or my family and no longer pose a threat, they are free to go.

If they attempt to retreat via a path that takes them any closer to myself of anyone else I'm attempting to defend I'm going to fire.

If they do remain still I will stay at least 6-10 feet away. I'll keep my sights on them until LEO's arrive, but I will NEVER try to physically detain them. If I'm close enough to touch them, I'm close enough for them to disarm me and kill me with my own gun.
 
"HOLD 'EM!!! In florida you can hold a person in the commission of a "violent felony" which I am positive is any case where I could feel my life and safety were at risk. I am legally allowed to use any level of force to hold the suspect. when they initially submit I will block the exit and if they try to flee they are coming at me thus lethal force to protect myself may be used and it is not shooting a fleeing BG... "

I think you need to re-check your facts...
http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/self_defense.html

"forcible felony" is what i believe you were trying to refer to, is narrow in its definition. The included link is a simple FAQ that will help you understand your rights in FL. In Florida State Statute 790 you will find the complete articles.
 
- when he flees, he's no longer a threat.
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Often true, but in many states there is castle doctrine. If they are still in my home, they are still a threat. What if they're running away to go grab a knife from the kitchen? Or to take a hostage?

Like someone said, complicated.
 
I ain't gonna hold 'em then... just stand in their path, armed, refusing to retreat...
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And that wouldn't constitute detaining them?

I guess it would serve to keep them in, if your have only one door and no windows, unless an accomplice outside shoots you in the back.

Of course, if they are not charged you may have a real problem, and maybe even if they are--civil, criminal proceedings--you may prevail, but at what cost? And then again, maybe you won't. And if they are released right away, a problem of a different kind.

But--if that helps your ego and you are not risk adverse, proceed.

Let's just hope that nothing you do helps the anti gun crowd infringe our rights.
 
HOLD 'EM!!! In florida you can hold a person in the commission of a "violent felony" which I am positive is any case where I could feel my life and safety were at risk. I am legally allowed to use any level of force to hold the suspect. when they initially submit I will block the exit and if they try to flee they are coming at me thus lethal force to protect myself may be used and it is not shooting a fleeing BG...
Brent
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Nothing personal, and I believe you are well intentioned, but I think this is extremely bad advice and a surefire way of bringing trouble upon yourself.

--Life and safety at risk; block the only exit--
Any decent attorney is going to eat you alive on this.
I.E.

So Mr. Hogdog, you were in fear of your life because Mr. Y was such a threat to you, correct? Yes, that is right. So you drew your pistol and threatened Mr. Y with deadly force--to protect yourself because he was a viable threat, correct? Yes. Then you blocked Mr. Y's only means of egress, preventing him from leaving the area and alleviating any threat to your safety? Uh, well...um.... So then you shot and killed Mr. Y as he tried to get away by running out the only entrance? Uh, well......um... The very entrance you blocked? Uh, well......um... Essentially, what you did is create and maintain a condition that would enable you to use deadly force. But I though he would come back and hurt me. Objection, speculation. Objection sustained. Are you a cowboy Mr. Hogdog? No sir. You could have fooled me, how many notches in the belt are you up to now, anyway?

In a civil trial where the burden of proof is P.O.E., you are hung.
In a criminal trial, you might also face conviction on several charges.

Win, lose, or draw, you have problems that will get VERY expensive to sort through.

IMO, it doesn't take much to make a well intentioned person appear a gun toting cowboy looking to carve a notch into his belt. This is what I seek to avoid. If I were a civilian without an oath to uphold, I would let them walk UNLESS I could reasonably articulate (not speculate) doing so posed a greater risk to my safety.
 
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So Mr. Hogdog, you were in fear of your life because Mr. Y was such a threat to you, correct? Yes, that is right. So you drew your pistol and threatened Mr. Y with deadly force--to protect yourself because he was a viable threat, correct? Yes. Then you blocked Mr. Y's only means of egress, preventing him from leaving the area and alleviating any threat to your safety? Uh, well...um.... So then you shot and killed Mr. Y as he tried to get away by running out the only entrance? Uh, well......um... The very entrance you blocked? Uh, well......um... Essentially, what you did is create and maintain a condition that would enable you to use deadly force. But I though he would come back and hurt me. Objection, speculation. Objection sustained. Are you a cowboy Mr. Hogdog? No sir. You could have fooled me, how many notches in the belt are you up to now, anyway?
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No sir, I did not block his egress, I chose a spot of floor to stand in my dwelling and refused retreat, then he ran at ME and I was forced to "stand my ground"... I didn't know he was running for the door, he was running at me and I felt my life was treatened by this home invading criminal entity. No i have no notches in my belt as I do not celebrate the taking of this person's life... I thank my lucky stars to have lived thru that nightmare...:o

BTW, I did not give advice, rather an opinion only.
Brent
 
I chose a spot of floor to stand in my dwelling and refused retreat, then he ran at ME and I was forced to "stand my ground"... I didn't know he was running for the door, he was running at me and I felt my life was treatened by this home invading criminal entity
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Mr. Hogdog, you would have the court believe that you do not know where the door is in your own dwelling?:D:confused:

By the way, nothing forces you to stand your ground. The law in your state simply says that you do not have to retreat from a place where you can legally be without forfeiting the right to a justifiability defense.

I wouldn't try to extend that to a justification for shooting a fleeing suspect. The test case could be extremely expensive monetarily, and perhaps in other ways. What's to gain?
 
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