Less Lethal Carry Options

What less lethal weapons do you carry?

  • Baton/Club

    Votes: 1 2.4%

  • Kubaton/Striking Tool

    Votes: 4 9.5%

  • Flashlight W/Assault Bezel

    Votes: 7 16.7%

  • Stun Gun

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Taser

    Votes: 1 2.4%

  • Pepper Spray

    Votes: 12 28.6%

  • Other

    Votes: 6 14.3%

  • I do not carry any less than lethal weapons

    Votes: 20 47.6%
  • Total voters
    42
  • Poll closed .
Just a comment. CS was mentioned - that was abandoned when it was found that the sprays were ineffective.

Stun gun - the hand held sparky things that looked cool in the gun show. They were developed for police/pain compliance. They do not disable. Try it - it's an ouch. In a H2H class, the instructor would zap us to start. Ouch, you move away. You can't hold it on someone and the initial ouch is just that.

There's a study out there now that says de-escalation departments found more officers were harmed. Some debate about results.
 
I agree about the stungun
JoeSixpack said:
Stungun: contact weapon, works but would need continuous contact.. I don't consider it all that effective.
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You're right apparently they no longer cell straight up CS on the market.
Mace apparently still sells a hybrid pepper spray / cs mix
Maybe others do as well?

CS apparently was found not to work on some people on drugs and strong pain killers.
From what I read CS works on the nerves to inflect pain.. Pepper spray on the other hand is a irradiate to the membranes so it's suppose to not be affected by drugs.

From what I've read CS has a shorter recovery time, So really it seems like a strong pepper spray would be more effective.. although had I not read that I would have assumed tear gas would be the better choice.
 
Imagine someone comes up and punches you.. what are you gonna do?
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Situation awareness;), I carry because of health issues have my days of grappling, rolling around on the ground over. BUT if I were to get sucker punched most probably I will be going down (person got a good shot in) being on the ground and still conscious if at all possible I will draw.
 
"real" CS is nasty stuff. The Army used it to flush Viet Cong from tunnels. Didn't really work well, for that. Turned out that in high concentrations, the "flushing" was more "dying". Which, while the Army didn't mind killing, wasn't the mission statement, so they quit using it, for that.

The Army regularly gassed its own soldiers. Been there, done that, remember the burn.....,

And, speaking of burn, under the right conditions, CS will burn, releasing cyanide gas. Ask the Branch Davidians about that,...but don't expect any answer...:eek:

As to the "sparky things" only causing pain, it depends on the sparky thing. They run from the level of cattle prods on up to much more powerful devices. I watched a 300lb+ guy zap himself on the leg, to see just how bad it was.

He did a really good imitation of a fish out of water, slithered out of his chair to the floor and flopped about for what seemed like minutes, but was really much less time, maybe half a minute or so. don't know the exact thing he used to zap, it was decades ago, but I do remember, he said it wasn't PAIN that caused him to do that. It sure did hurt, afterwards, but it wasn't the pain, it was the electricity.
 
Pepper spray. Stream type. Fox Labs or Freeze +P.

Spray face, then spray crotch. Tell the cops to look for the screaming snotty guy with no pants and red balls.
 
Glad I finished my coffee before reading that or it'd be all over my iPhone....... Thanks for today's laugh Bill!
 
It works on almost all people. The face is usually the most sensitive and readily targeted. If the face shot doesn't work, in a minute or so the pants will come off once they are soaked through.
 
I have used OC/pepper spray and variants on at least 70 documented occasions on violent and uncooperative people over a 10 year span of time. Below is my general consensus regarding their use.

The majority of the people sprayed with at least a 2 second burst to the face resulted in significant secession in active resistance/violence. A very small number were hyper reactive to the spray and needed immediate medical attention. A very small number of people ( mostly female) had little to NO reaction to the spray. Narcotics and Alcohol influence does seem to diminish the effects. Generally speaking, it worked well enough to affect compliance.

Out of 70 applications, I suffered cross contamination about 5 or 6 times due to physical contact, wind , other issues and error.

Style of Spray was the 2 and 4oz high pressure cans with flip top safety ( ballistic stream and foam) all less than 1million SHU

Personally I have faith in its use. My main concern would be the quality of canister. Cheap low pressure novelty items are pure garbage in my estimation but most 2oz and 4oz high pressure cans with a concave bottom are good. My preference is ballistic stream, then foam follow last by conical and fog.
 
I agree that comment that not everything warrants pulling a gun. If someone starts approaching in a somewhat aggressive manner, but has not yet shown they are armed, I think having a less than lethal weapon is justified. As mentioned, Fox Labs puts out some good stuff and can greatly impair someone's ability/will to continue the aggression. At a minimum, it is hard to fight when you can barely see. A good thing about pepper sprays is that you can still use it at a distance.

Unless you are well trained in striking tools or even edged weapons, I don't advise getting that close to an attacker. You may be severely underestimating their capabilities. If your gun comes loose in a struggle, it could end very badly.
 
In a lot of situations, I have Pepper Spray on me, usually the smaller swivel types. And I've used it! All of these rambo types that say "someone punches me, I kill them" really? That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Talk about a total and complete disregard for human life.

Anyway, I was at a birthday party with my kid. There was me (dad) and a bunch of moms with their kids. An older kinda scrubby guy shows up to the birthday party, starts talking to the kids. I asked the mom of the birthday boy "do you know this guy?" She didn't... I got a piece of cake, gave it to him and said "here's a piece of cake, why don't you take it to go, please." He took the cake and left. Well when we were leaving the party I saw the guy in the parking lot approaching one of the kids and ask to touch her hair. He reached out and touched her hair. I about lost it! Ran up, shoved him, yelled at him, already had my pepper stray out and let him have it. I was carrying, I could have shot him, but the situation did NOT call for that. It called for a less than lethal but serious deterrent. Cops came, arrested the guy (NOT the first time he'd done this) and now he's in prison. I hope he gets the help he needs.
 
rpseraph said:
In a lot of situations, I have Pepper Spray on me, usually the smaller swivel types. And I've used it! All of these rambo types that say "someone punches me, I kill them" really? That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Talk about a total and complete disregard for human life.

Anyway, I was at a birthday party with my kid. There was me (dad) and a bunch of moms with their kids. An older kinda scrubby guy shows up to the birthday party, starts talking to the kids. I asked the mom of the birthday boy "do you know this guy?" She didn't... I got a piece of cake, gave it to him and said "here's a piece of cake, why don't you take it to go, please." He took the cake and left. Well when we were leaving the party I saw the guy in the parking lot approaching one of the kids and ask to touch her hair. He reached out and touched her hair. I about lost it! Ran up, shoved him, yelled at him, already had my pepper stray out and let him have it. I was carrying, I could have shot him, but the situation did NOT call for that. It called for a less than lethal but serious deterrent. Cops came, arrested the guy (NOT the first time he'd done this) and now he's in prison. I hope he gets the help he needs.
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Exactly what he said. ;)
 
Thanks Fireforge, I think 70 uses is quite a sampling, Im sold.

Im gonna pick up a can of 1.5oz fox labs 5.3, flip top, stream.
Apparently they changed the formula this year due to some sort of regulations, I hope the new formula is just as good apparently the old equivalent was 2oz cans.. not sure how that happens.. but what ever.

A shop im planing on placing a order with very soon as it for a great price.. Im just waiting on some oos items to come in before I place a order to save shipping.

Now I just gotta find me a decent belt pouch, but all the ones I found was either molle or setup for 2 - 2 1/4 duty belts, My belt is only 1.5, May have to just get one and modify it a bit.
 
From what I've seen the 1/2 oz cans that you see on key chains and stuff are really only good for one or two quick squirts.

Even the 2oz can's are only good for about 3 seconds of continuous spray.

I don't have any more pocket space so what ever I get will have to go on the belt, the 2oz seemed like a good compromise between the 1/2oz and 4oz can's

Another thing to consider is after doing some research the flip tops are highly recommended, because the swivel tabs that are popular on smaller units are hard to index (get nossle pointed toward attacker).
 
@ JoeSixpack,

Well, the good thing is that it doesn't cost much so you can switch if you decide the larger one is too much to carry. The 2 oz. is about 1.5" in diameter and around 4" tall. https://shop.foxlabs.com/collections/mean-green/products/1-5-oz-6-oc-flip-top-stream-pattern-mg The website says it is good for 16-18 half second bursts. The 15 gram unit is good for 10-12 half second bursts. If you can carry the larger one, I guess it is always better to have more than you need than to need more than you have. :)
 
Ya I think the spray producers lie about how long it lasts & distance.. Everyone of them I looked at did not live up to the hype on youtube.

There was a guy who tested the 2oz fox but only got 7 decent 1/2 second squirts.. he got a few more after that but they was pretty weak.. nothing you'd wanna depend on.

And they pretty much all come up short on distance, Only one I seen tested that actually went as far as It claimed was the mace brand pepper gun aprox 20 feet.. most of the sprays was 8-12ft for steam.

Watch some of the youtube videos of the tests, not the ones where they spray someone but where they shoot at paper plates, or trees or something.. they don't last long.
 
Im gonna pick up a can of 1.5oz fox labs 5.3, flip top, stream.
Apparently they changed the formula this year due to some sort of regulations, I hope the new formula is just as good apparently the old equivalent was 2oz cans.. not sure how that happens.. but what ever.
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will ya be giving a range report before too long?
 
Probably no need to, There is actually quite a collection of youtube videos of both it's testing and it's use on live subjects already.

Lambo's has it for less then 12 bucks a can, Im just waiting on some other things to come in stock before I place a order to save on the shipping.. So I don't have a definite ETA as to when I'll have it anyway.
 
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