Les Baer - You decide
- Thread starter mark lee
- Start date
- Status
Brian Bilby
New member
Terry,
Glad to see that some dealers stand behind what they sell and will step up to the plate to insure that the manufacturer does right, and does his best to satisfy his customers. If we only had more like you, then the gun industry as a whole would be much more honest.
Brian
Glad to see that some dealers stand behind what they sell and will step up to the plate to insure that the manufacturer does right, and does his best to satisfy his customers. If we only had more like you, then the gun industry as a whole would be much more honest.
Brian
All,
Hi, I currently own a Les Baer SRP built on a single stack Commanche slide/frame. I can honestly say that after 3000 rounds this is an excellent gun. Is it perfect? Absolutely NOT.
However, no other production 1911 can touch it IMHO. I don't like the too slick Baer Coat and the gun is almost too pretty to shoot. I bought it new (ordered it) and it ran sluggish during the first 500 rounds or so, but after that it has run perfectly.
I've had very few stoppages with this gun and all are attributeable to my limp wristing of the gun. I hate the stupid cheap a$$ mags that came with the weapon. They work, but I don't like the flimsy followers and frankly I prefer Metalform's to anything I've tried.
I must however point out that my gun is over two years old now and it was built shortly before several key 'smiths left Baer's plant (from what I've read and heard).
I belive this gun was built shortly before the Rock River Arms guys left his shop to pursue their own banner. Of course I don't really know who built the gun, but if the performance, fit and finish is any indication it was someone who knew their way around a 1911.
From what I've read around TFL and other knowlegeable places (to include Baer's own website which has advertised for one or more knowlegeable smiths recently) Baer's current crop of gun plumbers are inexperienced at best.
My two cents is that I would not currently order a gun from Baer's shop. My latest project is being worked on at the Cylinder and Slide Shop in Nebraska.
For those of you with the cash and serious desire to own a truly custom, hard core 1911 check out the smaller shops with a good rep. Brian, I've been checking you out and you'll likely get my next pet project.
DR
[This message has been edited by DesertRat (edited February 21, 2000).]
Hi, I currently own a Les Baer SRP built on a single stack Commanche slide/frame. I can honestly say that after 3000 rounds this is an excellent gun. Is it perfect? Absolutely NOT.
However, no other production 1911 can touch it IMHO. I don't like the too slick Baer Coat and the gun is almost too pretty to shoot. I bought it new (ordered it) and it ran sluggish during the first 500 rounds or so, but after that it has run perfectly.
I've had very few stoppages with this gun and all are attributeable to my limp wristing of the gun. I hate the stupid cheap a$$ mags that came with the weapon. They work, but I don't like the flimsy followers and frankly I prefer Metalform's to anything I've tried.
I must however point out that my gun is over two years old now and it was built shortly before several key 'smiths left Baer's plant (from what I've read and heard).
I belive this gun was built shortly before the Rock River Arms guys left his shop to pursue their own banner. Of course I don't really know who built the gun, but if the performance, fit and finish is any indication it was someone who knew their way around a 1911.
From what I've read around TFL and other knowlegeable places (to include Baer's own website which has advertised for one or more knowlegeable smiths recently) Baer's current crop of gun plumbers are inexperienced at best.
My two cents is that I would not currently order a gun from Baer's shop. My latest project is being worked on at the Cylinder and Slide Shop in Nebraska.
For those of you with the cash and serious desire to own a truly custom, hard core 1911 check out the smaller shops with a good rep. Brian, I've been checking you out and you'll likely get my next pet project.
DR
[This message has been edited by DesertRat (edited February 21, 2000).]
Peter M. Eick
New member
I hate to be the only one out here defending Les, but I have 2 of his guns and have found nothing like them. I think in general he makes a very good gun and it is quite reliable. I would say they were worth every penny.
Fortunately I have never had to deal with his customer service department so I cannot say anything there.
For all of those who are swearing off Les, do a quick search on Baer and see how many complaints there are. Not to many.
Personally, it looks like a lemon got out of the factory and it should be scrapped and replaced post-haste. I am very suprised that Les doesn't come to this conclusion immediately and solve the problem.
Fortunately I have never had to deal with his customer service department so I cannot say anything there.
For all of those who are swearing off Les, do a quick search on Baer and see how many complaints there are. Not to many.
Personally, it looks like a lemon got out of the factory and it should be scrapped and replaced post-haste. I am very suprised that Les doesn't come to this conclusion immediately and solve the problem.
FWIW,
I own a LB Concept V which has performed flawlessly thus far. The workmanship is perfect and I don't believe it has ever been "too tight" to perform as intended. It is only guaranteed to shoot 3" @ 50 yards but does somewhat better. I have not yet required service but I bought it through Davidsons and here is their guaranty as stated on the web site.
"If anything ever goes wrong with any gun your customers buy from you that was ordered through Davidson's, it will be immediately replaced. If no replacement is available, it will be repaired at no charge to you. Simple. Your customer just returns it to you, you ship the gun to us and we take care of the rest. We provide this benefit to our dealers free of charge. And, we work fast for you -- from when we receive your customers gun you'll have a replacement in three days. The customer is responsible for paying the shipping charge - and we'll get it back to you."
I don't think they would allow a substandard firearm to be sold through their company which would cause the kind of grief I have noted here. It seems that thousands of satisfied customers out here can't be all wrong but watching these threads of one or two who have had a bad experiance causes a bunch of potentially happy customers to change their minds. Some of the ones who have said they will never own a LB probably had heard good reviews from mags and friends and had done a ton of research due to this being a very important decision and a lot of money. I am sure the other guns that seem to be favoured here are top notch creations but I also think the Baers fall into the same catagory.
Dave
[This message has been edited by jeepCJ (edited February 21, 2000).]
I own a LB Concept V which has performed flawlessly thus far. The workmanship is perfect and I don't believe it has ever been "too tight" to perform as intended. It is only guaranteed to shoot 3" @ 50 yards but does somewhat better. I have not yet required service but I bought it through Davidsons and here is their guaranty as stated on the web site.
"If anything ever goes wrong with any gun your customers buy from you that was ordered through Davidson's, it will be immediately replaced. If no replacement is available, it will be repaired at no charge to you. Simple. Your customer just returns it to you, you ship the gun to us and we take care of the rest. We provide this benefit to our dealers free of charge. And, we work fast for you -- from when we receive your customers gun you'll have a replacement in three days. The customer is responsible for paying the shipping charge - and we'll get it back to you."
I don't think they would allow a substandard firearm to be sold through their company which would cause the kind of grief I have noted here. It seems that thousands of satisfied customers out here can't be all wrong but watching these threads of one or two who have had a bad experiance causes a bunch of potentially happy customers to change their minds. Some of the ones who have said they will never own a LB probably had heard good reviews from mags and friends and had done a ton of research due to this being a very important decision and a lot of money. I am sure the other guns that seem to be favoured here are top notch creations but I also think the Baers fall into the same catagory.
Dave
[This message has been edited by jeepCJ (edited February 21, 2000).]
That's what I've been stating!!! All these people go by what they read on these newsgroups. Hell, if everybody started stating Norinco 1911's are absolutely the best thing on earth. Buy one now as the price is going up and up! I bet you'll get a handfull that'll overpay for those pistols (no harm intended for you Norinco owners).
If you think a Les Baer is a piece of sh!t, fine. Just tell me so after you fire atleast two. Same applies with Wilsons or any other custom 1911. Until you actually hold it and fire it in YOUR OWN HANDS, don't bash the gun.
Sorry if I sound a bit peeved. I just get sick of reading people's posts about how they'll never buy this or that or this company is junk when they never held the damn gun.
If you think a Les Baer is a piece of sh!t, fine. Just tell me so after you fire atleast two. Same applies with Wilsons or any other custom 1911. Until you actually hold it and fire it in YOUR OWN HANDS, don't bash the gun.
Sorry if I sound a bit peeved. I just get sick of reading people's posts about how they'll never buy this or that or this company is junk when they never held the damn gun.
OK--
I guess after looking at all the posts I have come to a conclusion that I have known for a pretty good while,even if not wanting to admit it.
The 1911 is surely one of the all time great guns and designs. It's history is legendary.
And,IMHO,thats the point. It IS history,as far as serious defense handguns are concerned.
I apreciate the romance and feelings for the gun,no question. However, I also think it is a gun from a byegone era. The reality is,is that any of the Sig,Beretta, or Glock guns out perform the 1911 right out of the box for the intended purposes of the gun. I am not sure Houdini could build a 1911 and have every one that comes off the line function as well as the above three guns. If you look around the world,where they play for real,you overwhelmingly see Sigs,Berettas,and some Glocks,not to mention Smith & Wesson revolvers and a few 3rd generation autos thrown in for good measure.
The 1911 is simply an ancient design today,and there are much better guns on the market for the intended purpose.
For target shooting,competition,and all around fun,the 1911 is great. It is a whole lot of fun to shoot and talk about,and I like them too.
And,no, I did not call John Wayne a fag.
Anyway,just another thought--
Have Fun, and Safe Shooting!
I guess after looking at all the posts I have come to a conclusion that I have known for a pretty good while,even if not wanting to admit it.
The 1911 is surely one of the all time great guns and designs. It's history is legendary.
And,IMHO,thats the point. It IS history,as far as serious defense handguns are concerned.
I apreciate the romance and feelings for the gun,no question. However, I also think it is a gun from a byegone era. The reality is,is that any of the Sig,Beretta, or Glock guns out perform the 1911 right out of the box for the intended purposes of the gun. I am not sure Houdini could build a 1911 and have every one that comes off the line function as well as the above three guns. If you look around the world,where they play for real,you overwhelmingly see Sigs,Berettas,and some Glocks,not to mention Smith & Wesson revolvers and a few 3rd generation autos thrown in for good measure.
The 1911 is simply an ancient design today,and there are much better guns on the market for the intended purpose.
For target shooting,competition,and all around fun,the 1911 is great. It is a whole lot of fun to shoot and talk about,and I like them too.
And,no, I did not call John Wayne a fag.
Anyway,just another thought--
Have Fun, and Safe Shooting!
Hey Rik---I can have my opinion based on my experience. Drivel and crock are not words that impress. If you dont agree with my thoughts,thats ok. Us firearm enthusiasts should be on the same side,but,that would make for a dull forum,I guess.
And,uh,see how many sigs and berettas, (% wise) have the problems 1911's do. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RikWriter:
etc, you may be using too strong a word calling that drivel a "thought."
There have been DOZENS of producers of 1911s through the years...do you expect EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM to produce a perfect gun EVERY SINGLE TIME?
What a crock.[/quote]
And,uh,see how many sigs and berettas, (% wise) have the problems 1911's do. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RikWriter:
etc, you may be using too strong a word calling that drivel a "thought."
There have been DOZENS of producers of 1911s through the years...do you expect EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM to produce a perfect gun EVERY SINGLE TIME?
What a crock.[/quote]
Ok, here goes. I own three Les Baer Pistols- an FBI HRT, Concept VII, and a FBI Swat Prototype. (SWAT STILL UNFIRED) These guns are FLAWLESS. I have NEVER had a malfunction and these guns are so tight that I get a cramp taking them apart and I'm 6'2" and 300 pds of weightlifter. I wouldn't trade my HRT for ANY gun except maybe the HRT in Commanchee size. Now I know quality pistolcraft and have seen some incredible guns from the small shops, but you have to be willing to pay the frieght. I can't believe all this pissing and moaning. I have gotten crap from just about everyone and everything at some time or another. Sometimes it doesn't matter how much you spend; you still can get crap. And as far as Les is concerned, I'm SURE hes sent some of his own out the door. I just got a Custom Adventurer from Bill at Cylinder & Slide. After he sent it to me, I went ballistic. I sent it back to him with a laundry list of complaints...AND uppped the ante and spent another 600 bucks for modifications I wanted. He returned the gun to me a few weeks later and it's PERFECT...BUT HE CHARGED ME SHIPPING BACK!!!!
Just like Les Baer. I didn't complain. I love the gun and Bill is a great guy. Nobody is perfect all the time. Ok, so Bill IS A NICE GUY..and Les can be a little abrasive but he has always taken care of me. A side note--I have spoken to Terry from P&T Partners on numerous occassions. Give him your business he is a straight shooter.
Sincerely,
Jay
Just like Les Baer. I didn't complain. I love the gun and Bill is a great guy. Nobody is perfect all the time. Ok, so Bill IS A NICE GUY..and Les can be a little abrasive but he has always taken care of me. A side note--I have spoken to Terry from P&T Partners on numerous occassions. Give him your business he is a straight shooter.
Sincerely,
Jay
- Status