LEO's make a mess at the range!

S

Sierra280

Moderator
I just saw the online schedule for my local county shooting range and the sheriffs dept has it closed 'for training' tues-thurs of this week. Both my shooting buddy and myself have new guns we wanted to take out this week, arrrgghh.

What really bothers me about it, is it is the only range within 45min and during LE training secessions (or whatever they are doing) it is completely closed to the public. Last month I accidentally went to the range one morning they had it shut down till 11am, only a small number of cops were at the range at any given time (they came and went) so there was plenty of room for others. They left brass (American eagle 45ACP and Federal XM109) freaking everywhere one the cement pad around the benches (almost broke my neck unloading my gear) so I swept it away. They also left the remains of several cinder blocks they destroyed barely 15ft in front of the firing line(???). I just don't understand why the local LEOs feel the need to monopolize the range so often (this happens a couple times a month); First, the range is run by the county parks and rec. dept, NOT the sheriffs dept. Second, why do they need to whole thing for maybe half a dozen people? And, why is it closed to the public? IT IS A PUBLIC SHOOTING RANGE!! LEO tactics and training are not secrets, in fact it's available public knowledge, in 2min on my iPhone, I can look up police training and tactics (including counter tactics and studies that show exactly what situations LEOs make the most tactical errors in) I can even tell you exactly what each individual deputy makes per year, including benefits! But, inexplicably, I can't sit at a bench at the end of the TFL and quietly do my thing because they are 'training'????
 
Hell, I'd risk just showing up. If it's only a few there, they might not know it's supposed to be closed to the public or they might just not care. Then maybe you get the added bonus of shaming them into cleaning up after themselves. I would understand and support their need to train if that's the only range availible to them but they should recognize good range behavior like the rest of us.
 
I think it is great that the range is available for the LEO's to use as a good percentage of LEO's only shoot when they are required to. A small percentage actually enjoy the sport.

It is up to the range management to have the LEO's cleanup after themselves. It is not your duty to pick up after their mess. Enough complaining to the range management might force the issue.

Good luck. Don't let the mess left by others discourage you from cleaning your own shooting area and enjoy the range.
 
Only a few show up at a time to qualify: Because if they all showed up at the same time, they would not be able to be on patrol. They are getting paid to train/qualify. You can only cert so many people at once. Over-time costs $$$$.

Why can't you shoot when they are qualifying? Probably has nothing to do with their tactic, but everything to do with range safety. How many times have we had stories here about people trying to change targets and people are shooting? Or people behind, besides the berms?

They leave a mess: Heck, take a picture; scoop up the brass and sell it to the reloaders. Send the pictures to the parks board.

I understand your frustration, honestly. But what about the times when the sheriffs department is not shooting but every bench is taken by others who want to shoot?

I guess they could do online reservations for shooters, but what do you do when you want to shoot, have to have reservations and none are available?

Sometimes we just have to press on and say next time or maybe later.
 
Can't comment on who pays how much or nothing for them to be there because I don't know. About leaving cinder blocks or anything else laying around, that's a individual thing not a Leo thing. There's people in all walks that do this kind of thing. And last about leaving all that brass laying around. Sounds like a gold mine to some. :)
 
Well, the quality of some LEO's shooting seems to need help if they were shooting cinder blocks!:eek:

You're complaining because they left range pickup brass?
Heck where is this range I'll be on it like a rat up a rhododendron bush.;)
 
So you're complaining because you have the opportunity to pick up hundreds (thousands?) of cases of once-fired .45 ACP and 5.56 x 45mm?

Pobrecito.
 
They put a sign at the entrance 'Closed to the public'. It's at the gate to enter around a hill about 1/4 mile from the range.

Unfortunately, there are no RO's or management on site, just a long line of covered benches at the rifle and pistol ranges, and an outhouse. Even payment to go in is on the honor system. One morning I did see a county parks and rec. employee emptying trashes and checking things out.

Even before the start of hunting season, on a saturday, I've never seen the benches full. That's why I go midweek, getting there at sunrise, it's usually just me and maybe 1 or 2 others (total between rifle/pistol ranges).

BTW, I don't own a 5.56 or 223 so I don't need the brass, plus I don't pick up range brass anyway.

What really bothers me is that they close it mid week from sunrise to noon, at least a few times a month. Typically, around here, wind gusts will be well in excess of 30-40mph by noon. Worthless, for sighting. Plus, if they are qualifying, shouldn't it be done in varying environmental conditions? Especially when it's crazy windy here more time than not. And yes, other than for load testing or sight in, I don't mind doping for the wind.
 
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Why not take all the energy and venom to the organization that actually has authority over the range and discuss it with them? And maybe a visit to the Sheriff's office simply to complain about the mess these guys left behind wouldn't be a bad idea, either.

I see the frustration and I understand it, and I don't think it's "wrong" to complain about it here in a thread... but I also don't see any productivity or a means to a positive outcome by sitting around complaining. Take that energy somewhere to effect change and maybe you improve the situation.
 
The small town where I live has a police range that is only open for law enforcement. Nice range, and there are only about 10 full time LEOs. In other words it get used for a few hours every month. The rest of the time it sits empty. It is on public land owned by the city and kept up by, yep, city paid parks and rec folks. Why it couldn't be open on a limited basis for the public I don't know. I'm a good friend of the armorer. Coupla years back I asked him what they do with all the once fired brass. He told me they let it lay. I then asked him if I could go pick it up, even tho it wasn't calibers I reload for, and was told no, there was no access for non-LEOs. I then told him what a waste it was because even as scrap it is worth something. Their policy then changed and they were to clean up behind themselves and the brass sold and the proceeds were to be donated. Come to find out, one of the city workers was pickin' up the brass on city time and pocketing the monies. He now woks somewhere else.
 
I hate to say it but

There is a big "us and them" mentality in the LEO community. Sharing an open range with "the Public" is prob viewed as a safety issue by the range officers

Nothing secret about shooting a qual course or doing training. They just want to be left alone while they do it.

Sad but true:(
 
Okay, so I called the parks and rec. manager. I asked why the range was closed to the public when LEO's are using it. His response "they must be doing exercises that require secrecy from the public." :eek: I informed him that there are NO exercises or training for the police that are secrets to the public, as they are a transparent, publicly funded, goverment agency. The manager proceeded to tell me that myself or any citizen can reserve public parks for closed, private use, at a substantial cost. I said 'oh well, at least they are paying for it then'. That's when I was informed that goverment agencies can reserve any property in the parks system, for any length of time, for free. As per the way this county's parks and rec regulations are written.

That makes me much happier to know that myself and every tax payer who enjoys using the county range, is paying for the LEO's ridiculous salaries (transparent Nevada, check it out) range maintenance fees as well as for all their training and ammo. Yet, again the citizens get boned by the govt.
 
Our local range allows the LEOs to have a free membership so they can use it for training as well, but they don't close it down as we are a small community, plus the depts here see it as a good way to do some public relations, even letting us civvies at times compete with them in thier quals. When they first started that policy there was a bit of concern that they could out vote active members to sell the range to the sheriffs dept or another dept. However we are lucky enough that when the sportsmans club who owns the range was formed they put in the bylaws that such actions had to be approved by EVERY single member, regardless of activity. If one person so much as says no, that's that and the no's have it...

There is a no RO, and we 'police' it as well as help others out as needed. Kinda nice with a small community like ours. It is gravel, not concrete so if someone doesn't pick up their brass, no huge deal. Anyone is free to collect whatever brass they want for reloading on a first come first served basis...
 
So there are 2 problems... one is that the police are not respecting the condition of the range (srsly? cinder blocks?) and trashing it, and second, that they're not respecting the "dual use" nature by randomly closing it.

The solution might be easy... put in a call to Parks&Rec and tell them what the problem is. Be polite and respectful, etc... a tactic of "We're all in this together" will go a long way. Be sure whoever you talk to takes down your name/number in case somebody else wants to talk to you, AND that you'd appreciate a call back.

Or the problem might be a bit harder... you may find that the cops have adopted the policy of "we can come by any time and close the range for as long as we need" and just don't know people are getting frustrated. If there's an actual process the cops just aren't using to "reserve" the range, the Parks Dept prob hasn't bothered to fix it because nobody has complained. If you get nowhere with the City parks guy, send an email to every member on the City Council.

As for the mess they're making... one call to the Chief that his boys are trashing the local range should put a stop to that nonsense. Leave that call to the city Parks guy, or again, put in a word with a city councilman.
 
The police here use the gun club's range. I know I wouldn't complain to find that much brass. That'd be a nice trip to the junk yard.
 
They close it down because they can; I'd work that front. What'd you do as a kid when jerks monopolized the basketball courts in the local park and wouldn't let anyone else play there? Those jerks grow up, but don't really change their behavior, and continue being jerks to those around them.

It's highly likely the officers don't even know how obnoxious their behavior is, because the are never called on it ;). I'd hit up the city council with some other folks backing you (so you don't get on anyone's bad side by being the only "civilian" kicking them off their private range) and lay out clearly why the exclusivity is unnecessary and expensive (bring pictures of the low occupancy and vandalism, too).

TCB
 
I would imagine that they close the range because maybe part of their quals are move and shoot drills. Even we use barricades when we qual. The less people around the better. Plus the RO is giving a course of fire, and it would be easier to hear if you didn't have someone down at the other end of the range shooting at will. I'm sure it is just a safety issue, not a "secrecy" issue. Just be glad that they train that much, we shoot once a year for an hour, for 3 weapons. But we also have our own range. If the range is owned by the county park, ie the county, and the SO is a county department as well, it makes sense that they would use that range to shoot. It does stink that they do not clean up after them .
 
I got a solution. Quit your day job, go to a police academy and then get that police dept to hire you. Then shoot up a storm. Please pick up your cinder blocks :)
 
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