Lee Autodisk question

F

Frankly

New member
Hi folks,

So I just started reloading.

I have the Lee Classic Turret system with the Autodisk powder measure.

I've loaded up a bunch of ammo in everything but the Magnums so far. Everything at starting loads. I verify the weight several times and note the difference between what the Autodisk data says and what it actually is.

Yesterday I started on .357 loads. I noticed for the powder and bullet I am using (125 grain Hornady XTP over HS6) there are exactly three Autodisk settings that fall between the starting and never exceed loads.

My question is, when loaders talk about "working up," does simply going from one to the next Autodisk setting within this range of three qualify, or do I need to be charging my cases without the Autodisk to allow for much smaller increments of increase?

Your insights are greatly appreciated.
 
Frank, you are finding out how to use the auto disc the same way everybody else has. What you've discovered is that the holes in eack disc throw the charges that they want to thrown, not what you may want. Let me try to explain that.

Working "up a load" means trying to get increments between the minimum and max powder charges. For handgun, the spread is often only 1.5 to 2 grains from recommended minimum to max. Then you decide to make 4 groups of loads, usually 5 rounds per, within that 1.5 grain spread. Now you discover that the disc holes do not cover that 1.5-2 grain spread with 4 different loads. Most times it's 2 holes, one just under min, the next in the middle, the last at max.

The answer for the Lee auto disc is the adjustable charge bar. The adjustable charge bar replaces one disc that allows adjustment from the smallest disc cavity to the largest in a single disc. Then you can do exactly the grain weight you want. For example; if the spread is 5.5 grains of XX powder @ minimum to a max of 7.0, you may want to try the 5.5, then 6.0, then 6.5, and finally 7.0. That would be how I would do it. 4 load groups should tell you where the sweet spot is.
 
Minor notes

The lee disk system can also be augmented by drilling out the holes to make your own unique charge disk for a particular load. You'll obviously want to mark the disk VERY clearly so as not to accidentally use it inappropriately. The charge bar setup is fine but I prefer the non adjustable disk as it can never fall out of "zero" so to speak. Also the Lee system, I have found, does benefit from dither being added to the mechanism. I found that stopping by the thrift store and getting ahold of an old baby swing vibrator motor works cheapest and easiest.
 
My question is, when loaders talk about "working up," does simply going from one to the next Autodisk setting within this range of three qualify ..........?
Click to expand...

IMHO, unless you need pinpoint accuracy, that's exactly what you should do to make life easier with the Autodisk. Load a number of rounds, say 10, with each cavity that drops between min and max loads in the manual. Range test as per standard procedure and pick the load that you like best. Then settle on that cavity for future loads, with the same powder, of course. No fiddling with modifications, charge bars or the like.
 
The answer for the Lee auto disc is the adjustable charge bar
Click to expand...

I hadn't heard of this, but after reading your post I did a little digging. Found mixed reviews on this product. Some (quite a few actually) say that it's next to useless when you get down to 5 grains or less (terribly imprecise).

I have been checking my charge weights and am finding the Autodisk to be absolutely consistent down to my ability to determine on the Lee safety scale. I imagine a digital scale might reveal some variation though...

What I think my question comes down to is, do those finer increments between the two or three usable Autodisk settings available for each bullet/powder combo really make that big of a difference? How narrowly do you define the sweet spot for a recipe? Are increments of .1 grain "workup" really necessary? I imagine I have opened the door to a huge debate here. Sorry... but it would be nice to gain some varied insights on the matter.
 
Welcome to reloading and thanks for asking our advice.

Frankly said:
Yesterday I started on .357 loads. I noticed for the powder and bullet I am using (125 grain Hornady XTP over HS6) there are exactly three Autodisk settings that fall between the starting and never exceed loads.

My question is, when loaders talk about "working up," does simply going from one to the next Autodisk setting within this range of three qualify, or do I need to be charging my cases without the Autodisk to allow for much smaller increments of increase?
Click to expand...

Lee's AutoDisk measure and Lee's powder dippers are widely know to deliver lighter charges than Lee's published tables. This is ONE reason a good scale is needed by every loader. You always verify powder chrges dropped by any means.

When working up loads and desiring charge weights in between what you can get from your auto-disk, you can try the adjustable charge bar, but it would probably be more efficient to simply drop a charge lighter than what you want into your scale's pan. Then trickle powder into your scale until you have achieved your desired weight. You are, after all only making a few rounds at that precise weight and getting the adjustable charge bar to drop that weight will take more time than simply trickling up for those few rounds.

When you do find the charge weight you want for a long production run, you can set the adjustable charge bar, OR you can adjust your disk. Get a set of extra disks and use a round file to enlarge a slightly too-small cavity. You can also drill a hole through the side of the disk, into a too-large cavity and run a machine screw into the cavity, thus making your own adjustable charge disk. See post #2 http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=558466. But do read the entire thread, as more of your questions are touched upon in it.

Threre is also an outfit (I am not sure where) making "blank" disks (Auto-Disk compatible disks with no cavities-just pilot holes so you can drill your own cavities.

If this link does not work, but Google "Lee CUSTOM CAST BLANK POWDER DISK compatible with LEE AUTO-DISK POWDER MEASURE" or language like that.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/331456113850

Good luck

Lost Sheep
 
Last edited:
Hey Lost,

Great post, lots of useful insights to mull over.

I researched the custom blanks. I can get the original Lee disks for considerably less money, and I think they would be higher quality and more precisely manufactured. I could measure the existing hole sizes then calculate what the in between sizes would be, drill them out, smooth the walls with the appropriate dremel bit, then replace the original volume markings with simple codes such as A, B, C, D, etc. I may just do this. The disks are cheap enough to buy...

One curious point is why Lee doesn't offer supplemental disks with different ranges of hole sizes. They would undoubtedly sell a lot of them...
 
The Lee Adjustable Charge Bar = http://leeprecision.com/adj-charge-bar.html

For many years now I have used these stacked on top of each other. The bar has to be slightly modified to do so and the knoba need to be marked so you can adjust them together but this allows you to set the chg weight to exactly what you want.
The top bar needs the little feet slightly ground back so they will stack.
You also need the spacer for the double disk setup. Lee offers the spacer you just have to call them to get it. Also you need loner screws for the powder hopper but these you get at your local hardware store.
I made my spacer from an old steel soup can.

I have loaded more rounds than I can count using this setup.;)
 
One curious point is why Lee doesn't offer supplemental disks with different ranges of hole sizes. They would undoubtedly sell a lot of them...
Click to expand...

I had the same thought. They could call them tweeners, for hole sizes be-tween the standard discs:D . Of course I know that it's possible to enlarge any given hole size with drills, reamers, or a dremel.

Another thing is the double disc set-up. It consists of two extenders for the sides of the measure. Then another set of discs that are meant to be stacked on top of one another. This allows you to throw larger charges than what the larges disc hole can measure. This is for the big magnums like my 500 S&W or for many rifle calibers. It also allows you to mix and match the two discs to get to the exact powder charge you want.

Suppose you're loading 44 mag. Books call for an exact powder charge, but one disc is slightly below that, the next is ---of course above. You could go to the double disc set-up with two discs approximately half of the one that's over, then use one that's slightly smaller. It would work to get to that exact powder charge.
 
You go from cavity to cavity from starting load (or, if not using 296/H110, even just below the starting load) up to, but not to exceed, max.
Note that any given manual's start and max load is only for their gun with their lot numbers of components. You don't have their gun or their exact lot numbers of components. Thus, I find it is best to check several sources and start at the lowest start load (you may not want to load very many at that low start load, but it is best to verify at least a couple at that load).
I have found that there is VERY seldom (in my case, never) a load that so much better at some setting between the cavities that I need to set up a different measure. However, it would be nice to have a few more cavities just to play with.
 
Snuffy, looks like I will need to get the double disk adapter when I start loading .223/5.56, and from what I can see, it would give me some of the "tweener" loads (trademark that name quickly, my friend, then sell the rights to Lee when they come around to our way of thinking). In your estimation, would it give me enough?
 
I highly recommend dumping the disks and get the powder charge bar and use that....will make powder dropping a whole lot easier
 
I've read numerous reviews about the measure bar being inconsistent at charges under 5 grains. That sounds more like a headache than a cure. I think I would rather buy some additional disks and customize the hole sizes because I know that will be consistent....
 
The geometry of volume

Frankly said:
I've read numerous reviews about the measure bar being inconsistent at charges under 5 grains. That sounds more like a headache than a cure. I think I would rather buy some additional disks and customize the hole sizes because I know that will be consistent....
Click to expand...
The problem with the disks is that the height with the Auto-Disk is immutable (It can be doubled, or even tripled, but halved is not possible). To get a small charge, you would have to have a tall, skinny cavity. This is better than a short, wide cavity, but neither is as good (consistency-wise) as a cavity that is just a little taller than it is in diameter.

So, the micro-disk was created (not to be confused with the micro-adjusting charge bar). It is a half-height disk with a shim to fill the other half of the height.

Unfortunately, as the story goes, the molds were damaged and sales would not justify Lee Precision making new ones (though the other outfit is making a passable copy at reasonable price)

Frankly said:
One curious point is why Lee doesn't offer supplemental disks with different ranges of hole sizes. They would undoubtedly sell a lot of them...
Click to expand...
I offered an idea to Lee Precision a while back. Richard Lee sent me an email (and I am not sure how much was tongue-in-cheek and how much was just cheeky) but he offered that if I would front the $20,000 or so cost of a set of molds for my idea, he would make sure I had a few of the product off the production line...free .

Well, at least he did send an email and allowed as how my idea had some merit. But if I am to believe him, it was uneconomical.

As 3-d printers become more available, I expect some really good ideas will come to fruition.

Lost Sheep
 
View attachment autodisk chart in progress.pdf

I ordered extra disks today for modification. They are actually less costly when you buy them as the double disk kit rather than by themselves. I've started the attached chart. I could not find any hole size measurements on line. Does anyone have them? If so, can you verify the measurements in my chart?
 
I tried out the adjustable charge bar today. Bought three of them so I could experiment on a couple since they each cost little more than a burger at In-N-Out.

Verified already what so many have said about the charge bar being worthless for smaller loads. Using Bullseye for 38 special, tried to work up from the starting load of 3.1 grains toward the do not exceed load of 3.5 grains. Powder drops with the adjustable charging bar ranged .4 grains, the entire span from min to max load. Useless.

Will try modifying one of these as others have suggested to see if it makes it usable.
 
The charge bar works very well with finer grained powders, I drop 4.5 grains winchester super field without any issues at all. Big flake powder will require a different method.

In any case the charge bars are handy to have around. The stacked bars really works well for rifle loads. Just make both cavities the same volume.
 
The charge bar works very well with finer grained powders
Click to expand...

I suspect it can be made to work well with the flake powders too. The disks drop consistent weights of Bullseye at small cavity sizes, so there's no reason the adjustable can't be modified to achieve the same consistency. I am working on one of them right now using the JB weld mod. Gonna let it cure overnight then get out the dremel tomorrow for fine tuning...

Hate to second guess a manufacturer, but Lee could have saved a lotta folks a lotta grief. They have to know the concept of the product compromises accuracy and consistency at both extremes in order to have something that works as intended toward the middle of its range. One solution would have been to release the product in three configurations: small, medium, and large. An even better solution would have been one product with micrometer adjustments at both ends so every powder drop could be perfectly centered... I would pay a whole lot more for such a product. Think the man is reading this?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top