LASER ban
- Thread starter Apple a Day
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DOnt worry about it...
These pathetic clowns in politics who try to ban guns lasers etc, whatever...
Dont have any real power, do you think because they get a law passed for instance that says firearms owership is now illegal that we would all just give our guns up? hell no, I wouldnt, first of all THAT would be highly illegal in the first place, and if they actually tried to come to my house and take my guns.. well then... I would just have to put those guns to good use
These pathetic clowns in politics who try to ban guns lasers etc, whatever...
Dont have any real power, do you think because they get a law passed for instance that says firearms owership is now illegal that we would all just give our guns up? hell no, I wouldnt, first of all THAT would be highly illegal in the first place, and if they actually tried to come to my house and take my guns.. well then... I would just have to put those guns to good use
Laser shows, industrial lasers
OK.
There's possibly a way to down an airliner with a laser.
That laser won't be cheap, however. A full-power industrial cutting laser was auctioned off ebay recently for something like 400'000 Swiss Francs (350 k US-$).
A real weapons-capable laser platform ain't gonna be that cheap.
And a handheld laser isn't as powerful as such stuff, and if there isn't almost perfect weather, practically useless. Remember that laser light reflects off any dust or water molecule, like fog or haze. Furthermore, the average cockpit window glass further distracts a laser a bit, if it's just tinted straight away.
And lastly, try to really aim your average laser pointer more than 20 yards.
OK.
There's possibly a way to down an airliner with a laser.
That laser won't be cheap, however. A full-power industrial cutting laser was auctioned off ebay recently for something like 400'000 Swiss Francs (350 k US-$).
A real weapons-capable laser platform ain't gonna be that cheap.
And a handheld laser isn't as powerful as such stuff, and if there isn't almost perfect weather, practically useless. Remember that laser light reflects off any dust or water molecule, like fog or haze. Furthermore, the average cockpit window glass further distracts a laser a bit, if it's just tinted straight away.
And lastly, try to really aim your average laser pointer more than 20 yards.
The guy, David Banach is an AH simply because of his actions. He's a bigger one for attempting to throw his daughter under the bus and lying to the authorites about the incident. :barf:
I think the bigger picture here is that they are charging him under the Patriot Act. A little excessive I think.
Chris Christy, the U.S. Attorney from NJ wants to "send a message" to people in regard to this type of action. He now faces up to 25 years in jail for being an idiot.
I think the bigger picture here is that they are charging him under the Patriot Act. A little excessive I think.
Chris Christy, the U.S. Attorney from NJ wants to "send a message" to people in regard to this type of action. He now faces up to 25 years in jail for being an idiot.
Cowled_Wolfe
New member
With a generic laser pointer, I can hold on a 1-3inch point at 100 yds for a good 20 seconds (I know this because once, I got bored and turned off a streetlight with a laser pointer (middle of the night, no cars -- it was safe)).
Btw, I live under the main near-final approach route to a local airport... I won't try lasing them, but methinks even the big commercial planes going low and slow would be a challenge to hit -- especially the cockpit.
Btw, I live under the main near-final approach route to a local airport... I won't try lasing them, but methinks even the big commercial planes going low and slow would be a challenge to hit -- especially the cockpit.
guntotin_fool
New member
First of all.....
Laser's are routinely sold as signalling devices in SAR and open water sailing cataloges so let us not blast away saying this will not work. The lasers that are used act differently than regular lights even relatively tiny outputs are visible at extreme distances. Visual recognition at distances of 20 miles are routinely documented in SAR reports. The human eye is not expecting light to act like a laser and when people act as if something has startled them they often fail to utilize good judgement in reporting that event.
And before we rip the guy for saying his daughter did it, maybe she did and he is taking the fall for it, My son has a pretty good telescope for astronomy use and it has a fairly strong green laser on its side for aiming purposes.
My job as a contractor has me exposed to relatively decent lasers all the time as we use them for visible levels and in transites. Many of these are strong enough to be seen in broad daylight and protective eyewear is recommended if one is facing one. If this is a problem, the easiest fix would be a simple window coating that would diffuse the waves of the laser in to just ambient light. These are readily available and are what are used in industry to protect people from reflected laser light.
I say this a load of BS and nothing was damaged. just some pride on a pilot part who pooped his pants when he saw a flash.
Laser's are routinely sold as signalling devices in SAR and open water sailing cataloges so let us not blast away saying this will not work. The lasers that are used act differently than regular lights even relatively tiny outputs are visible at extreme distances. Visual recognition at distances of 20 miles are routinely documented in SAR reports. The human eye is not expecting light to act like a laser and when people act as if something has startled them they often fail to utilize good judgement in reporting that event.
And before we rip the guy for saying his daughter did it, maybe she did and he is taking the fall for it, My son has a pretty good telescope for astronomy use and it has a fairly strong green laser on its side for aiming purposes.
My job as a contractor has me exposed to relatively decent lasers all the time as we use them for visible levels and in transites. Many of these are strong enough to be seen in broad daylight and protective eyewear is recommended if one is facing one. If this is a problem, the easiest fix would be a simple window coating that would diffuse the waves of the laser in to just ambient light. These are readily available and are what are used in industry to protect people from reflected laser light.
I say this a load of BS and nothing was damaged. just some pride on a pilot part who pooped his pants when he saw a flash.
Seems to me that some of the more powerful mobile spotlights and strobes might be more dangerous to low flying aircraft than a dollar store laser or rifle sight. On the other hand, so would actual small arms fire of any type.
It's funny how Al Kidya is portrayed as always potentially in pursuit of some barely tangible, ineffective and awkward or extremely expensive and complicated means of attack - as opposed to the obvious, effective and readily accomplished.
Seems like there is more terror - fear - being generated by the sources of these reports. Be they government or otherwise. Another buzz item; and I wonder why we have to hear from some former employee of a foreign airline about it.
It's funny how Al Kidya is portrayed as always potentially in pursuit of some barely tangible, ineffective and awkward or extremely expensive and complicated means of attack - as opposed to the obvious, effective and readily accomplished.
Seems like there is more terror - fear - being generated by the sources of these reports. Be they government or otherwise. Another buzz item; and I wonder why we have to hear from some former employee of a foreign airline about it.
I read an interesting article the other day about how the military is installing lasers at military airfields to somehow aid or warn a military pilot of being off-course or something like that, perhaps like the warning areas on lighthouses. (When you stray off course you will see the light change to red) I'm almost certain that if they were testing these lasers recently then that could account for these laser incidents and the lack of serious inquiry by the government.
Try a search on a story like that and see what we can come up with. These lasers may have accidently tracked commercial airlines and their unknowing pilots, but the gov't want's to keep us in the dark on their existance?
Try a search on a story like that and see what we can come up with. These lasers may have accidently tracked commercial airlines and their unknowing pilots, but the gov't want's to keep us in the dark on their existance?
Does anyone read this story and visualise the pilot acting like the cat/dog when you shine a flashlight on the floor.
My uncle had a Pamiranian dog named Ziggy (I wonder how it got that name
) that would just stand and have a staring contest with the spot of light. Mabee that's what we need, have a bright spot of light on the floor of congress. The Democrats brains will freeze up following the spot of light.
Personaly I see more of a problem with those HID headlights on SUV's, even worse are the cheap knockoffs. Christ, it's like staring at the sun when you have one of those coming at you head on or in your rear view mirror.
Pilot: OOO, bright light. Can't stop looking at the bright light.
My uncle had a Pamiranian dog named Ziggy (I wonder how it got that name
) that would just stand and have a staring contest with the spot of light. Mabee that's what we need, have a bright spot of light on the floor of congress. The Democrats brains will freeze up following the spot of light. Personaly I see more of a problem with those HID headlights on SUV's, even worse are the cheap knockoffs. Christ, it's like staring at the sun when you have one of those coming at you head on or in your rear view mirror.
1BadF350
I have heard this story too; and it doesn't seem to add up. I have to wonder why directing a laser at the cockpit of an airliner or other aircraft is somehow any better - or even as reliable - as simply communicating with the pilot via radio .
Perhaps these lasers will have a varying capability and purpose, in addition to pointing them at the cockpits of errant civil aircraft.
I have heard this story too; and it doesn't seem to add up. I have to wonder why directing a laser at the cockpit of an airliner or other aircraft is somehow any better - or even as reliable - as simply communicating with the pilot via radio .
Perhaps these lasers will have a varying capability and purpose, in addition to pointing them at the cockpits of errant civil aircraft.
FirstFreedom
Moderator
Lol, I'm all for it. Something tells me it wouldn't take much to stall the brainpower of members of both partiesl
Ok...
Hello everybody.™
Please tell me that was before 9/11...
I've been in a cockpit (before 9/11
) and I'd think at cruising altitude, a pilot will NOT look down on the ground when he can't (big nose) to see some spiffy over-the-counter laser pointer that's like a micro LED at the most...
Really. I once tried to point out an errant tennis ball on someone elses court...couldn't even find it (and it was at night :barf: ) That was like 15 feet away...
I have a name for it. Flash banning. Metal flashlights. Laser pointers. Guns. Cars you don't like. Knives. Etc.
Hello everybody.™
Please tell me that was before 9/11...
I've been in a cockpit (before 9/11
) and I'd think at cruising altitude, a pilot will NOT look down on the ground when he can't (big nose) to see some spiffy over-the-counter laser pointer that's like a micro LED at the most...Really. I once tried to point out an errant tennis ball on someone elses court...couldn't even find it (and it was at night :barf: ) That was like 15 feet away...
I have a name for it. Flash banning. Metal flashlights. Laser pointers. Guns. Cars you don't like. Knives. Etc.
No one is claiming the plane will be downed directly by the laser. The problem that is occuring is that the pilots can be distracted or temporarily blinded by the beam.
I think the claim is rather exagerated since the strobes used for approach lights are far more powerful, and even correcting for distance and collimation, present a lot more energy.
The chief risk from lasers is getting the beam in your eye at a short distance when the spot size is smaller than the pupil diameter, or using anything that gathers more light (SLR camera, binoculars) in front of the eye. If the spot size is smaller than the objective size you wil capture the full power, and can easily damage the retina. At high enough levels (and ot does not really take much) the damage is permanent.
I think the claim is rather exagerated since the strobes used for approach lights are far more powerful, and even correcting for distance and collimation, present a lot more energy.
The chief risk from lasers is getting the beam in your eye at a short distance when the spot size is smaller than the pupil diameter, or using anything that gathers more light (SLR camera, binoculars) in front of the eye. If the spot size is smaller than the objective size you wil capture the full power, and can easily damage the retina. At high enough levels (and ot does not really take much) the damage is permanent.
I'm surprised so many of you discount this problem.
Did you know the military has goggles designed specifically to protect flight crews from being temporarily blinded?
As a pilot, I can attest to how dangerous it would be to lose visual reference on short final due to a flash of extremely bright light - and even a momentary flash would do it.
Finally, a story. In 1984 I was in middle school. The science department had just gotten a huge, clunky commercial laser for demonstrations and holograms. My friends became curious as to the dispersal of the laser over distance, so we set it up to shoot some 200 yards down the hallway that crossed the length of the school. At the far end the dispersal was about 3 feet. As we were commenting on that a student near the far end walked through the beam and looked down toward us. The next moment she was sitting on the floor rubbing her eyes. That was a cheap 1984 laser.
Did you know the military has goggles designed specifically to protect flight crews from being temporarily blinded?
As a pilot, I can attest to how dangerous it would be to lose visual reference on short final due to a flash of extremely bright light - and even a momentary flash would do it.
Finally, a story. In 1984 I was in middle school. The science department had just gotten a huge, clunky commercial laser for demonstrations and holograms. My friends became curious as to the dispersal of the laser over distance, so we set it up to shoot some 200 yards down the hallway that crossed the length of the school. At the far end the dispersal was about 3 feet. As we were commenting on that a student near the far end walked through the beam and looked down toward us. The next moment she was sitting on the floor rubbing her eyes. That was a cheap 1984 laser.
Handy
I have to call you on your statement about the lazer. A "cheap commercial lazer in 1984" is an oxymoron statement. Lasers as you descrive back then where quite expensive.
Yes a bright light can distract a pilot but would hardly make the plane crash. You can alway's pull up and make another pass. Yes, other air trafic in the area might be a problem, but it is hardly a doomsday senario.
I used to live in a small farming community that had a cropdusting company operating at the local airport. On day one of the pilots was dusting a field when a large bird (hawk of some kind I believe) flew into his plane. It got cut in half by the prop, half loged in the engine and the other half went into his windshield. The windshield cracked, but didn't shatter. (Think of windshields in car crashes.)
Here is this pilot, with a windshield covered in bird guts he can barley see out of, an engine that is damaged and running rough, flying 10' off the ground. He is able to fly ~10 miles back to the airport and safely land. Soposedly he had corn leaves in his landing gear, I didn't see that part. Getting a bright flash in the eye is a minor problem compared to other things that can happen to an airplane. Heck, flying a kite near an airport can be more dangerous than a lazer.
I have to call you on your statement about the lazer. A "cheap commercial lazer in 1984" is an oxymoron statement. Lasers as you descrive back then where quite expensive.
Yes a bright light can distract a pilot but would hardly make the plane crash. You can alway's pull up and make another pass. Yes, other air trafic in the area might be a problem, but it is hardly a doomsday senario.
I used to live in a small farming community that had a cropdusting company operating at the local airport. On day one of the pilots was dusting a field when a large bird (hawk of some kind I believe) flew into his plane. It got cut in half by the prop, half loged in the engine and the other half went into his windshield. The windshield cracked, but didn't shatter. (Think of windshields in car crashes.)
Here is this pilot, with a windshield covered in bird guts he can barley see out of, an engine that is damaged and running rough, flying 10' off the ground. He is able to fly ~10 miles back to the airport and safely land. Soposedly he had corn leaves in his landing gear, I didn't see that part. Getting a bright flash in the eye is a minor problem compared to other things that can happen to an airplane. Heck, flying a kite near an airport can be more dangerous than a lazer.