Lady Cop Observed During Range Session - Oh My

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Mike H

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I recently had the honor (?) to observe one of out nations finest during her practice/qualification shoot on a range. The gun in use appeared to be a standard 92FS which looked too big for her, all the other cops I saw had the same weapon but I later saw some in the same Department carrying other makes, weird how they choose their weapons, you get the 92FS for free or pay for a different choice. Anyways, to the range shoot, this is what I saw and it left me horrified and confused, but mostly horrified.

Said lady shooter stepped upto the line with the 92 ready to go in her duty rig. She unholstered, took aim, and when the cardboard bad guy turned she gave a tug on the trigger which didn't move, she turned the gun towards her a little, noticed the safety was on and clicked it off, by now cardboard man was side on i.e. he had shot her. On the second attempt she clicked on an empty chamber, now for the confusing part, she did a short rack of the slide by placing the thumb of her right dominant hand on the back of the grip, placed her 2 forefingers in front of the rear sight and pulled the slide back (it only looked like part way), this cocked the hammer into single action which she then dropped onto either a dud round or another empty chamber. At this point she gave up, shrugged her shoulders, made safe (didn't see if a live round was ejected when she locked the slide back) and wandered off in search of someone who knew which end the bang came out of.

Can you cock a Beretta like that ?, the PT-99 copy I've shot certainly didn't seem to, also has anyone seen a cocking technique like that used before on any gun, opinions invited.

P.S.
I think she would have done a standard failure to fire drill and drawn her OC spray as backup, but I think it was loaded with hairspray which is ineffective beyond 2 yards ;) BTW if my wife reads this you won't be hearing from me for a while.

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Mike H

[This message has been edited by Mike H (edited January 08, 2000).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>On the second attempt she clicked on an empty chamber[/quote]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Dude that was a GREAT story! THANKS!

remember folks... we don't need guns at all and they should all be banned. Because we have police officers on the streets 24/7 to protect us.

LMAO..
-Frank the Spank
 
I saw something nearly identical on TLC's "Life on the Beat" (or similar title). It was truly appalling. You'd think that a person who could easily be killed for such mistakes/incompetence would make it a priority to know exactly what they're doing.
 
if we are fortunate enough to live a long life we will observe many strange things.i know we tend to see the lighter side but this child needs help.you were wise to keep your eyes on her or any other person on the firing line with you.i truly believe her instructor taught her the correct way but as we all are quilty of she aquired a bit of creative stupidy.i know we wish her and all her comrades the best for they have a difficult task. take care.

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cliff
 
Unfortunately what you saw is not unusual. My agency has had auto pistols for over 8 years. We still have people that think a failure drill consists of keeping the weapon pointed downrange and raising their non shooting hand.

These people generally are of a mind that it won't happen to them. They also tend not to engage the threat in force on force training scenarios.

These same people are also the supervisors in my agency. You can imagine what happens when you try to "correct" a perfect person.

As to Destructo's thought. I tend to view them in the same light as a drunk driver. They will probably kill the wrong person or get somebody else killed. As it was said "God looks over fools and children".
 
This is not just a female or local cop thing. I had the pleasure of watching the Boston FBI folks qualify at Ft. Devons a few years back. Does the term "monkey screwing a football" raise any visuals?

Dated a lady cop here who took a lot of neanderthal crap about having to use a Sig 225 as opposed to a 226. She felt that she could control it better. She couldn't drive tacks, but she was fast and aggressive. (oops, that was why I dated her) Umm, she could shoot just fine too.

Giz
 
Not to disparge female LEOs (one of the best shots I know is a female buddy in LAPD) but I recently saw something that made me quite nervous. I was at the local range when a young woman and her husband showed up. She took a lane and set up targets. She then took out her Beretta 92FS and shot about five rounds. On about the sixth round the pistol failed to eject. She just stood there dumbfounded. Without removing the magazine she and her husband began to try to force the slide back while pointing the pistol all over the range. I walked up to them and cautiously asked if I could help. She said yes and I proceeded to remove the magazine. Upon inspespection I noticed the pistol was bone dry. I sprayed it with some CLP and worked the slide back. I ejected the stuck round, stripped, cleaned and lubed the pistol. She told me she was an LEO. I asked if she ever cleaned her pistol and she said no. According to her she had been told that the open slide design made it unnecessary to clean a 92FS. I told her otherwise and went about my business. For the rest of the time she was there her 92FS functioned flawlessly.

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So many pistols, so little money.
 
I'm going to jump in here and someday I'll be sorry, I'm sure. I have done a bit of LEO instruction, and have seen some atrocious gun handling and ignorance. Folks gotta realize that the average cop has about as much interest in his firearm as...well, as much as any other person on the street, not as much as a guy who enjoys guns 1/3 as much as the folks on this forum. I have taught and re-trained people to LOAD A MAGAZINE every 6 months....I saw a female try vainly to load an 870 on the line..putting the shell in backwards. I am trying not to be sexist, and I know exceptions exist, but it is tough. I could tell you about a female who won't load her shotgun because "she always breaks a nail every time she does it." I have been told by a male officer that he "hates guns, the only reason I carry one is that they make me." Bottom line, an interested and trained cop can be proficient as heck..but so can a citizen. The average citizen can be really uninformed about firearms..and some cops are, too. To most cops, guns are to them what seatbelts are to some drivers. Everybody knows that traffic accidents (or shootings) only happen to somebody else. I could do a whole book on this, but I'll shut up now.

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When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; IT IS that they shall be destroyed forever...Psalms 92.7
 
If some LEO's are so disinterested in firearms, why are they an LEO at all? Surely they must understand the risks associated with the job. It boggles my mind that they wouldn't take the time and energy to learn all that they could about their sidearm. Someday, it may be the only thing that keeps them alive. To each their own, I suppose, but I'd much rather weigh the odds in my favor that I'd be going home each night.

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Times have changed, but the nature of man hasn't. That's why I always go to AA, "Alert and Armed". :)
 
First of all, Mike H, stay the hell off our range!! ;)

Unfortunately, we have a female officer (god help me if anyone at the PD took me up on the invite to check out TFL!...uh, that is at the Las Vegas Metro PD, yeah, that's the ticket!)
as I was saying.....

We have a female officer who very much resembles that story.. and we, uh, do issue the Beretta 92 (as many depts do here in Nevada ;)).

BUT, we have another female officer who is pretty damn tactical...

And we have A LOT more than one male officer who resembles that story. The fact is that too many cops, regardless of gender, have bought into the idea that their sidearm is "just a tool" like the rest of their equipment. They are lax with it because they generally can afford to be. They don't practice with it, because they spend a so incredibly little of their time working using it..if they ever do. Not to mention that fact that the administration types don't exactly encourage, nor support, attempts to integrate more and better firearms/tactical training (at least not here in the gambling capitol of the free world, but I hear the admin types are much better inplaces like Virginia, for example.. another officer told me that, his name is Rob too!).

The only real problem I have believing your story exactly as told, Mike, is that with the safety in the on position with my beretta, the trigger moves freely without anything else happening. Otherwise, it seems like a perfectly accurate description of many LEO's at the range... sad, ain't it? :(

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-Essayons
 
Misslecop, I hear that question a lot. I have a couple of theories about why complete non-gun folks become cops. One told me "I needed a job." Weird, eh? Another one is like I said, shootings always happen "to somebody else." Like car wrecks, right? I have also seen what I call "magic thinking" among many officers. They think that even if they can't hit a silhouette in broad daylight with no stress, they will SOMEHOW manage to hit a moving half-covered firing BG in full dark. The cops on TV always win, don't they? A lot of folks just sort of refuse to consider their own mortality in the way (I theorize) that some people continue to smoke. Finally, some folks get into this line of work "to help people" without realizing that some folks will resent the help you offer, and will kill you to prove it. This is a hastily thrown together reply, but it contains my basic and unrefined theories. Like I say, I could write a book about it. I do so enjoy going to IDPA matches and watching people shoot-seriously-and it COSTS them money, instead of watching guys go out on company time and shoot free ammo on a great range and gripe about having to do it. Thanks for letting me get that off my chest!

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When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; IT IS that they shall be destroyed forever...Psalms 92.7
 
Everyone should add their experience and make a book.
Here are a few. Small town Cheif switched to a 9mm but only had cheap fmj ammo. So I gave him a box of 147 silvertips I didn't like. About 3 months later I found he never tried them in his gun but carried them. "He never even fired a single round to check function"
Lady cop in Moorhead MN was involved in a "situation" on the border to ND. She fired every round she carried and was asking her partner for more ammo. The only thing she hit was a Fargo PD squad. She got a award for it.
Was still in college and member of private range. At meeting we had request from local police to use the indoor range for training/cert. They did NOT want a club range officer to see their "tactics" so we put it to a vote and changed the club rule about a range officer MUST be present.... We cleaned up the range and did some painting to make it look good. Two days later I went down to range to open and almost called 911. Lights were shot out, center pillers had bullet hits. "I was there when they were painted before the PD showed" The target turners 2 out of 8 were shot. They were 16" above the target. I checked the log and the PD was the only ones using the range. Last time they were allowed to use the range without a safety officer.
Was part of a civilian personal protection class. The head instructor said this class is about safety, legal issues, safety, proper grip, safety, shooting, safety. "You get the idea?" Well 3rd class he takes his group and pulls out his duty 45, dumps mag, removes chambered round, hands it to a student and tells him to "draw" it from his waist, aim, and dry fire it at the officer as he rushes the student. We had been pounding safety, safety, safety into the group so they all have a WTF look on their face. :(
 
I've got a couple stories to add here.
We have a retired Memphis LEO who now works for my city. He tags along with our officers when they go to the range to keep up his firearms qualification. Well, here we have twenty or so of our fine young men and women with their modern Beretta autos trying hard to make a passing score. Up steps this old guy (about 70) with his well worn S&W Model 10 and he promptly cleans their clocks! To add insult to injury, he's our dog catcher!

Last year I was at my local range when a group of Marine Reservists show up to do some pistol practice. These people were such poor shots and had such poor saftey that the instructor would only let them load one round at a time.
 
Jhp147,
Your reply may have been hastily thrown together, but all of it makes perfect sense. I'd hate to see how long your well thought out theories are. :) "Instead of watching guys go out on company time and shoot free ammo on a great range and gripe about having to do it". Free ammo, a great range, and they gripe? Oh yeah, it's not the shooting they gripe about, it's the time that's taken away from their day off that they're griping about. And actually having to clean their sidearm. Oh, the horror!! I find cleaning my firearms relaxing, guess I'm a wierd one. My wife doesn't appreciate the smell of gun cleaning products on me, but she still loves me just the same. Enough so, that when she mentions the smell, I immediately head for the shower and a scrubdown! Now that's LOVE! :)

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Times have changed, but the nature of man hasn't. That's why I always go to AA, "Alert and Armed". :)
 
While risking the chance of getting caught by some of my co-workers...here goes...but then again, the ones that resemble this wouldn't be on this site.

I am a LEO and very into guns, too much so for my wife. My closest friends that are also LEOs are into them too. Well aware of how to handle, clean, maintain and shoot them. They also have their private collection, other than the one issued to them. However, there are many, too many who only take their guns out of the holster for yearly qualification. And shoot? I'm not the best but next to some of them I look like an expert.

Too many have to return to the range over and over again to try and qualify. The most memorable experience that I have is when I had the best 18 shots taken off of my target because the 'person' next to me put all of h** 25 yard line shots into my target. I was pretty upset because we were shooting for our marksman badges, but I still made sharpshooter.

Just bear in mind that not all LEOs are like this but unfortunately there are too many of them out there.
 
In one department, superbly trained police have:

Put 9 mm bullets through the floor pans of squads on three different occasions.

Put a charge of 00 Buck through the roof of a squad and blew out the Mars bar to boot.

Put a .38 +P+ bullet through the chief's private toilet; chief was not on the throne at the time.

Shot at a bullet-proof glass window just to see if it was. It wasn't.

Jim
 
Jim,
Now c'mon, the incidents you listed all happened in the name of "Quality Control". :)
I don't remember all the details, but our Chief of Police also pulled an AD, in his own office no less! Whooops!

The REAL reasons behind the discharges---

1. The brakes failed, and they needed to stop , a la Fred Flintstone style.

2. Too hot, the budget wouldn't allow it, and they wanted a sunroof.

3. It was clogged, works far better than a 'snake'. Some chiefs are more like political appointees, and just as full of it.

4. Now see, if they hadn't tested the glass, someone might have gotten hurt later on!

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Times have changed, but the nature of man hasn't. That's why I always go to AA, "Alert and Armed". :)
 
The female cops I see at local ranges tend to be pretty good.

Local Air Force base guards, OTOH...saw one of them *teaching* another guy to shoot a Beretta 92. The *teacher's* shooting was such that most hits at 7 yards were not on the big life-size silhouette target.

I asked to try the 92 and found that it was easy to keep all 15 rounds in the same hole at that range.
 
There have been quite a number of different times that I have shot an IDPA match and had some LEOs present.With one exception,they have never been very good.A few of them were
unsafe and all of them,except for one,did not seem to enjoy themselves. I ,also,never see them return to shot again.I always feel a bit sorry for them.

Hey Grayfox ,I am from Memphis and we do produce some bada$$ dogcatchers :).
 
I do IDPA and shoot with some LEO's.

Let me preface this by saying I am a strong supporter of the law enforcement community; I worked for a prosecutor's office back in my "I wanna be a lawyer phase" - at which point I realized our clientele was - shall we say - a little questionable....

Most of the cops I know are either really, really good...or are both poor shots with a worse attitude/gun safety skills. It's very annoying (and scary) when junior safety pup swaggers up to the line with a SA semi-auto (safety off, of course) and proceeds to violate most of the range regs. And god forbid you should ask them to follow policy; they get an attitude "I'm a cop, blah,blah".

I generally leave _or_ ask a current/ex LEO friend to give them a quick course in minor details like where to put trigger fingers (on a SA auto no less! AD waiting to happen) and why we have safety procedures for folks that want to practice starting their string from a carry holster (ie - you are alone in a firing bay and can't hit anyone else if you have an AD - ie. Sat afternoon is not a good time....)

Now...the LEO folks that took the time to learn this stuff are generally _very_ _very_ good and have taught me a lot over the past year....
 
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