Korth Firearms?
- Thread starter Genepix
- Start date
I see the same thing that doomed the wartime frontline handguns and machineguns of the third reich. Over-engineering to make the mechanicals so precision fit that one little grain of abrasive sand or one burr from machined metal can cause the failure of the whole machine. Besides, if you can afford one, you aren't going to actually shoot it, you'll just keep it in the safe to fondle of wear it to bar-b-que's. I'll keep buying 1911's, Could buy about 25 at those prices...........................
Bill
Bill
Wrong. I shoot my Korth regularly. I sent 100 rounds through it last Saturday. Compared to my S&W K-22 from 1952, which gives me problems inserting cartridges after a few cylinders, the Korth is not just more troublefree but also much better made.
I find many of the posts on Korths, SIG P210, or other high end guns lacking substance. If you haven't shot or handled a Korth - or cannot afford one, keep your fingers off the keyboard instead of badmouthing something you know nothing about and only proving your ignorance in the process.
newfrontier45
Moderator
I don't know why someone would buy something like that and NOT shoot it. Are you really getting your money's worth by just looking at it? I don't have a Korth but I do have four custom Ruger revolvers and a $4000 shotgun and shoot the snot out of all of them and hunt with them. To me, these guns are too expensive NOT to shoot.
I beg to differ sir. While I'm not "badmouthing" them, I don't have to handle or shoot a Korth to know I wouldn't own one. Like I said before, I don't have a problem spending that much on one gun, it just won't be that one.
newfrontier45
If you quote me, please do not omit the most important part and change the meaning. I will grant everybody an opinion based on experience. If you do not like Korths, SIG P210s, custom 1911s, or Colt Pythons it is fine with me but there is little wrong with them. Or with Freedom Arms, Les Baers, Manurhin MR73s, or other high end guns.
The only thing bad is the price which reflects the quality: it is high.
lifesizepotato
New member
This sort of sour grapes mentality pops up all the time when the topic of nice or expensive guns comes up. Whether it's P210s, Korths, pricey collector guns, what have you, there are always posters who try to feel superior and scoff "at least I shoot my guns, unlike those nancy boy collectors," "no room in my safe for safe queens, heh" or "my Taurus/Glock/$500 1911 shoots just as well as that there fancy pants European Korth/P210/etc." The psychology behind it is intriguing but I won't delve into it at risk of offending the haters. I will say that the phenomenon isn't unique to gun owners - I've seen it in almost every subculture I've been a part of or that I've observed.
For what it's worth, I shoot my Korth every time I go out and I shoot it a lot. I fully intend to put many many thousands of rounds through it in my lifetime.
For what it's worth, I shoot my Korth every time I go out and I shoot it a lot. I fully intend to put many many thousands of rounds through it in my lifetime.
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newfrontier45
Moderator
I didn't say anything was and we're not talking about ALL high end guns, I thought I made that perfectly clear. I said I didn't like Korth enough to pay their high price. I'm about to spend $3000 on a custom Ruger .500 and that is where I'd rather my money go. The Korth appears to be as well made as a revolver can be but quality and precision are not the only deciding factors. At least not for me. I have to not just like but LOVE a gun I pay that much for and in that regard, the romantic aspect, Korth leaves me cold. It's not a Taurus versus Korth or Glock versus Les Baer kinda thing. More of an angular Lamborghini versus swoopy Aston-Martin kinda thing.
I agree and hope that wasn't directed at me.
lifesizepotato
New member
Nah, not necessarily directed at you. Just a general observation on something I've noticed on almost every gun forum whenever the topic is an expensive "high falutin'" type of gun, and the conversation here seemed to be veering that way. I'm kind of commiserating with bac and PzGren, because I think we have similar tastes and have run into that attitude before. 
That Ruger sounds interesting.
Nah, not necessarily directed at you. Just a general observation on something I've noticed on almost every gun forum whenever the topic is an expensive "high falutin'" type of gun, and the conversation here seemed to be veering that way. I'm kind of commiserating with bac and PzGren, because I think we have similar tastes and have run into that attitude before.
Yes, its prevalent on every gun forum I know of.
newfrontier45
Moderator
I agree, I see it all the time and it baffles me. It comes off as a reversed form of snobbery.
Right up there with buying an expensive gun and then declaring, "it's too expensive to shoot". As I said above, they're too expensive NOT to shoot.
A five-shot .500JRH built on a 50th anniversary .44Mag flat-top. Converted to a Bisley, 4¾" octagon barrel, Colt ejector, custom linebored cylinder, decked grip frame fitted with elephant ivory (or sheephorn) and a Bowen lanyard ring, possibly round-butted, color case hardened hammer and trigger, carbona blue the rest. Haven't decided if I will have it engraved or not.
I actually feel the same way about Freedom Arms as I do Korth. Beautifully and precisely built but for the same reasons, they don't appeal to me. To me they're more akin to a precision surgical instrument. Whereas the thought of the custom Ruger I outlined above makes my mouth water. No right or wrong, just personal preference.
Winchester_73
New member
I'm a little surprised that people, when talking this kind of price and quality, would bash the looks, when for that money, the gun MUST have superior function and ergonomics, which supersedes "looks" by leaps and bounds. I personally expect "looks" to be more of a concern of a novice. I think the Python had a lot of sales due to its "looks" rather than its "superior" function. The Korth should feel great, balance well, shoot extremely well, be completely reliable, while being durable mechanically. All of that trumps looks. Sorry guys that place emphasis on "my XYZ looks cool" but that is the truth. Its kind of like a muscle car, a real enthusiast would be more proud of a 1969 COPO 427 Camaro (plain on outside, when original) vs a RS 1969 Camaro (stripes, hidden headlights and what not, flashy). Performance is the big concern.
I've always been intrigued by the Korth myself, esp the DA revolvers they make. Some other high quality revolvers have been brought up in this thread: the pre war New Service (or Shooting Master, which was the same thing, but a little fancier), and of course S&Ws, we could stay post war 5 screw or pre war for S&W. Here is my question, I suppose this is more for Tipoc or Bac1023, (or anyone who OWNS a Korth) the price tag of a Korth is at least 3x if not 5x to 6x more money than a vintage S&W or Colt. In your opinion, is it that much better than one of those vintage, hand fitted, high quality, American DA revolvers?
I'm not implying anything either, its something I've always wondered.
I've always been intrigued by the Korth myself, esp the DA revolvers they make. Some other high quality revolvers have been brought up in this thread: the pre war New Service (or Shooting Master, which was the same thing, but a little fancier), and of course S&Ws, we could stay post war 5 screw or pre war for S&W. Here is my question, I suppose this is more for Tipoc or Bac1023, (or anyone who OWNS a Korth) the price tag of a Korth is at least 3x if not 5x to 6x more money than a vintage S&W or Colt. In your opinion, is it that much better than one of those vintage, hand fitted, high quality, American DA revolvers?
I'm not implying anything either, its something I've always wondered.
newfrontier45
Moderator
Look here buddy, firearms have been my primary passion for nearly 30yrs. I've bought and sold a lot of them in that time and have developed some strong preferences. Most of which tend towards old world craftsmanship. My current collection is approaching $60,000, most of which is invested in around four dozen revolvers. So please dispense with the "concerns of a novice" nonsense. It's misplaced and might get your feelings hurt. If you want to spend your money on guns that are ugly, yet "functional", I won't argue but don't insult me because I don't roll that way.
Yes, looks are important and anyone who says different is lying. I'm not a teenager saying that I want an Glock because "it looks cool". I'm a 40yr old adult with refined taste saying that I'd rather have something that looks like the sixgun below than a Korth. I really don't care how well it functions, there's no way I'd spend that much on something I didn't find attractive. Same reason why I'm going to the added expense of ivory and carbona bluing, rather than stainless steel and micarta. Octagon instead of round. A hand-built, hand-finished custom Ruger instead of a hideous X-frame. Same reason why I hunt with a traditional, fancy maple, browned finish muzzleloader instead of a stainless synthetic inline. Same reason why I shoot traditional leverguns instead of stainless synthetic boltguns. Probably all the same reasons you collect older S&W's instead of new ones. So please, don't waste my time with this "looks don't matter" crap.
Boge Quinn of Gunblast.com fame has a sixgun that is very similar to what I'm talking about. Although mine will have adjustable sights and slightly different finishes.
Aren't you the same guy that said this was the sexiest gun? Sorry but I outgrew that nonsense years ago.
Winchester_73
New member
First, my comments were not directed at you, but in general, calling a Korth unattractive, when it is intended be a technological and quality marvel is a little, um, pointless. Korth didn't say "our guns have the best lines" and quite frankly, I would have less respect for their products if they marketed them solely in that direction. Their guns are high quality, and looks are an opinion. When it comes to looks, who cares. Its not like the gun is ugly compared to revolvers, or one of a kind in the looks department, but rather, it is different with some similarities to other DA revolvers. Looking at a Korth, and over analyzing its looks, is a joke. I'm not saying that looks don't matter either, I'm saying that looks are not a reason to choose or not choose the Korth. If you think that way, stick to pedestrian revolvers, which are marketed to that type of "shooter."
Second, this is an internet message board. Before you brag to us (esp me) about the size of your collection, make sure its impressive, to everyone. I am not impressed by 48 revolvers, nor am I impressed by $60,000 worth of firearms. Ask yourself why might that be?
If you like the looks of a SA better, thats one thing. Keep in mind Korth, and really no other revolver manufacturers style their DA revolvers like a SA revolver, so the point is irrelevant. One notable exception is the High Standard Double 9.
In the Korth line, regarding the goal of their product, their company philosophy, etc, I would say looks are not a chief concern, nor should they be. I mean for one, it looks like a DA revolver, which some differences but none are as pronounced as a Chiappa Rhino. If they went over board on looks, and under valued performance, their revolvers would not sell for this money. Why? Because people want a performance difference when the MSRP is 5x what a S&W or Ruger retails for.
In closing, I don't think you understood my exact point. Perhaps now you don't either. IMO, your "experience" level should allow you to understand my point(s) regarding Korth.
Winchester_73
New member
I said that about Glock because at the time, I thought tacticool was neat. Since then, I've changed a lot, purchased a lot, and educated myself. I'd like to hear and see every statement you've made about firearms. I'm pretty sure I wound find many of them to be foolish, snobbish, etc. You posting that actually takes away from your opinion, not that it could afford to be any less important.
lifesizepotato
New member
I think talking about a gun's looks is totally fair game, especially in the case of the gun in question, a Korth revolver. At a certain point, you reach a tier where questions of "does it work? is it reliable?" are just assumed. Same thing with Glocks, H&Ks, SIGS, although they're obviously in a different ballpark. They all work nearly 100% of the time, so why not talk about their appearance?
This kind of goes hand in hand with some of the "reverse snob" attitude I was talking about earlier, to the point where it's another forums cliche. Someone always pipes up to add "heh, I don't care how my guns look, they're just tools for getting work done, I'm no sissy."
There's a lot to enjoy and appreciate in the world of firearms, from collecting to engineering to shooting, and the hurf-durf "guns are only tools" types who don't understand that get under my skin. (There are plenty of "guns are tools" folks who do appreciate that other people are into other things, and that's good, not who I'm talking about.)
I personally think Korths are beautiful revolvers, with a design clearly taking cues from the established Beauty Queen, the Colt Python. They are as reliable as any other reliable revolver, are better made than basically everything, more accurate than anyone on this forum, so what's left to discuss? Why not looks?
Winchester's question about "are they really worth it?" is exactly why I made a Youtube review video, it's by far the most frequent question I hear about these guns.
My take: Are they worth 3x a 50s Python, or 5x a 5-screw S&W? Depends on what you value. I think a lot of the extra price is made up for in exclusivity more than anything, so if that is appealing to you, then certainly. I wouldn't say they are 3x better made than an old Python, though. They are almost on the same plane. They are all basically equals at the range, too.
To help illustrate, I came up with a scale of revolvers for that video. From 0 to 10, I'd say:
Röhm - 0 (worst a revolver can be and still be a revolver)
Taurus - 4
New S&W - 6
Pre-60s S&W - 8.5-9
50s Python - 9
Manurhin MR73 - 9.5
Korth - 10 (the best a revolver can be, all things considered)
The Korth is as good as it gets, but other premium revolvers are so close that you're not paying 3x more for better accuracy or build quality at that point as much as exclusivity. The Korths are made of ridiculously strong materials, though, so strength is another thing you're paying for. I'd hate to see a S&W or Python after 50,000 rounds of 357.
This kind of goes hand in hand with some of the "reverse snob" attitude I was talking about earlier, to the point where it's another forums cliche. Someone always pipes up to add "heh, I don't care how my guns look, they're just tools for getting work done, I'm no sissy."
There's a lot to enjoy and appreciate in the world of firearms, from collecting to engineering to shooting, and the hurf-durf "guns are only tools" types who don't understand that get under my skin. (There are plenty of "guns are tools" folks who do appreciate that other people are into other things, and that's good, not who I'm talking about.)I personally think Korths are beautiful revolvers, with a design clearly taking cues from the established Beauty Queen, the Colt Python. They are as reliable as any other reliable revolver, are better made than basically everything, more accurate than anyone on this forum, so what's left to discuss? Why not looks?
Winchester's question about "are they really worth it?" is exactly why I made a Youtube review video, it's by far the most frequent question I hear about these guns.
My take: Are they worth 3x a 50s Python, or 5x a 5-screw S&W? Depends on what you value. I think a lot of the extra price is made up for in exclusivity more than anything, so if that is appealing to you, then certainly. I wouldn't say they are 3x better made than an old Python, though. They are almost on the same plane. They are all basically equals at the range, too.
To help illustrate, I came up with a scale of revolvers for that video. From 0 to 10, I'd say:
Röhm - 0 (worst a revolver can be and still be a revolver)
Taurus - 4
New S&W - 6
Pre-60s S&W - 8.5-9
50s Python - 9
Manurhin MR73 - 9.5
Korth - 10 (the best a revolver can be, all things considered)
The Korth is as good as it gets, but other premium revolvers are so close that you're not paying 3x more for better accuracy or build quality at that point as much as exclusivity. The Korths are made of ridiculously strong materials, though, so strength is another thing you're paying for. I'd hate to see a S&W or Python after 50,000 rounds of 357.
Winchester_73
New member
No, its not the reverse snob mentality. I am saying that Korth emphasized quality, and superior performance more so than looks. Looks is "fair game" to a point, but not to where you buy it or don't buy it. Its a very short sighted way of looking at a Korth.
You even said they are the top. So you think its wise to dismiss a perfect 10 revolver, because some other DA (which is not as good, based on your rating) looks better?
I'm not saying "guns are tools" - I am a collector, and a collector of revolvers. I am simply saying you don't buy a Camaro because it looks better than a Lambo.
Is it that hard to understand?
Winchester_73
New member
Oh, and for the record, I find this to be a lie, or maybe your head is on backwards. Are you saying that you don't care about the accuracy or the reliability? Of course you care about function. We all do, as you attempted to say about looks. While we all do care about looks, there is also a pecking order for features of a quality revolver, and no matter what your opinion is, looks are not the chief concern (unless you are new to revolvers).