Kind of a ridiculous question, but humor me.. Collateral/Tom Cruise

paradoxbox said:
You can see an example of this drill at about 0:41 in this youtube clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbC5mEc6ipE
Click to expand...

That is different from the scene in which Vincent/Cruise shoots 2 briefcase thieves/robbers.

In the above YouTube video(shooter shooting multiple steel plates from one stationary position), you know the course of fire and you need to develop the appropriate rhythm(fast side way movement of your upper torso/shooting platform b/w shots, while recovering from recoil).

That is a DIFFERENT SKILL SET from the dynamic shooting scene in the movie Collateral when Vincent/Cruise shot 2 briefcase robbers.


paradoxbox said:
You can see what I'm talking about at about 1:05 and again at about 1:51 in the following youtube clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8-P8sJNHk0
Click to expand...

Better.

BTW, in the beginning, when Cruise holstered his firearm behind the hip, he put his non-shooting hand on the shooting side of the hip and either swept his hand or came dangerously close to sweeping his hand with live firearm while holstering.

Also, I think he swept his leg when he drew and turned.

Not sure why Cruise held his non-firing hand over the gun during close in shooting or why he held the pistol toward sky/ceiling when moving b/w shots.

I think it's safer to hold the non-shooting hand close to your body during in close shooting.

When moving b/w shots, it's better to move with muzzle pointing toward the floor/ground(if you are surprised in close with muzzle up, you could be wrestling with your opponent grasping your shooting arm with both hands).


paradoxbox said:
#1) During the briefcase robbery scene, Vincent slaps the gun arm of the would-be robber down then draws and fires on both assailants.
Click to expand...

That scene would be this one, I presume:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiqwF_Y9S5Q&feature=related

This is more of an application of dynamic, close in shooting skill development training. Similar COF/training routine would be:
- push to the face and as you draw, step back and shoot
- step to the side and shoot
- draw as you step back at an oblique angle and shoot
- falling on your back, as if pushed by your opponent, and draw/shoot
- drop into squat/one leg kneel quickly from ground and shoot
- drop into rice paddy squat from a standing position and shoot
etc.
 
Last edited:
paradoxbox said:
Quote:
I disagree with that analysis of time. I've seen folks draw and hit three targets with double taps in 2.5 seconds.

Maybe SOME people can do that, but I am talking about what most people can do. It just seems unlikely to me that some random junkie is going to have crazy wild west style fast-drawing and fast-shooting skills.

Of course anything is possible and we should train for many contingencies but in the case of Tom's scene the bad guy had no idea Tom was about to pull out a concealed weapon and fumbled just to get his gun out of his waistband or pocket.
Click to expand...

Having the element of surprise and/or drop is the key according to my understanding, more than skill.

When you are faced with multiple shooters/opponents, skilled or unskilled, if you have the drop on your opponents(your gun is out and their is not) or the element of surprise like Vincent/Cruise did in the scene, odds are that you'll prevail over several opponents.

OTOH, if your opponents already had their guns out and were ready to use it and you had ZERO ELEMENT OF SURPRISE(they know you have the gun hidden and is about to draw), odds are that you won't prevail over several opponents.

Your brain (and that of your opponent(s)) has LAG TIME, whether you are skilled or unskilled.

If you have the drop on your opponent(s) and/or can surprise them, you can exploit that LAG TIME to your advantage if you already have a set course of action(shoot them).
 
Last edited:
Not sure how long ago this issue was settled, but this is one of the greatest movies in exsistance IMO.

In regards to the CQTS method and procedure used by Vincent in the film , Tom underwent extensive training over large periods of time, under highly skilled Practical Firearms and Shooting Instructors, and was outfitted with custom clothing in order to complete the scene without speeding it up VIA Hollywood machine magic.

I do not have an online link handy, but there was a special feature done on the scene in question, the methodology and logistics of it.
If I recall correctly ; Tom went through 4 , $2000 custom made suits to film this scene.. due to ripping a section of the pants near the IWB each time.

Bonus : Tom actually did the SHOOTING for this drill and had obtained accurate grouping at a similar speed in drills up to 30YDS. His training was done OTR, locked and loaded.

Again, I love this movie..... but now I wont be able to stop watching it..again!
 
Another false assumption.
I have never seen nor care if I see this movie.
But the discussion is interesting.
Click to expand...

If you have not seen it, you should. Its really a pretty good movie and worth watching.

You are missing half the discussion if you haven't.
 
When you use modern firearms in a movie, firing blanks, and spend months live firing those self same firearms, live, every day.

You end up with an actor who looks the part, acts the part.

The average criminal, has not good gun handling skills, first, they do not use holsters, if they have to ditch a weapon, having a holster on a belt? What we call a clue!

One of my expert witness jobs, in a self defense claim by the shooter (he walked from court, free) Toronto, March 1998.

One of the persons shot, was shot once in the body, and then once in the head, as he was lying on the street, still struggling to get a short barreled revolver from his jacket pocket, the exposed hammer was stuck in the lining.

This revolver was in the court, and the rounds that were in it, was also present, all mismatched, a round nose, a semi wad cutter, a target 148g full wad cutter. It was funny really, I was handed the .38 special rounds, whilst still in possession of the revolver!

As an expert, yes I know! But I did not have a brief case. You can get the jury on your side with little tricks, for instance, "Even though this revolver is empty of any ammunition, I will never point the barrel in your direction"

If you watch the 12 members of the Jury, they are nodding in response.

The Lawyer and I, spent a couple of hours, play acting the Q and A, in his Office.

Back to Tom Cruise and the movie, well done movie!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top