Kind of a ridiculous question, but humor me.. Collateral/Tom Cruise

+1 To Frank Ettin's comment. Great video clip as well.

Firing from retention and using tactical sequence. Those two examples are being theatrically displayed in the briefcase scene.
 
+1 To Frank Ettin's comment. Great video clip as well.

Firing from retention and using tactical sequence. Those two examples are being theatrically displayed in the briefcase scene.
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Tactical sequence? How so? I'm only familiar with the IDPA definition of the term which amounts to "Everybody gets firsts before anybody gets seconds" which doesn't appear to be what occurs in the scene.
 
ATW525 said:
...I'm only familiar with the IDPA definition of the term which amounts to "Everybody gets firsts before anybody gets seconds" which doesn't appear to be what occurs in the scene.
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And isn't always the best idea.

In the situation shown in the film, Threat 1 was close and with his gun deployed. Threat 2 was more distant and hadn't yet presented his gun; in fact he was struggling to get it out of "deep concealment." Threat 1, therefore, was considerably more serious and needed to be thoroughly neutralized immediately. Threat 2 was less exigent.

Of course it was all staged to work out that way. But it does illustrate an appropriate tactical sequence under those particular circumstances.
 
I'm only familiar with the IDPA definition of the term which amounts to "Everybody gets firsts before anybody gets seconds" which doesn't appear to be what occurs in the scene.
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When I read that I thought you were referring to this:

In a NTI stage, you are bringing pizza to a friend, open the door and find the place covered with blood and you need to find your buddy. Yes, you should just retreat and wait for the cops but you can't in the stage. Interesting, some guys ran through still holding the pizza. I was praised for throwing it away before clearing (which you shouldn't do but it was the stage and the guy owed me for the pizza - )
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If there's free pizza and every body gets some, I may have to start shooting IDPA again. :D
 
Andy McNab; Heat, Tom Cruise...

To my limited knowledge, former SAS/counter-terrorist expert & author; Andy McNab trained TC in firearms-tactics.
McNab was used often by Michael Mann(Heat, Miami Vice) to train actors & crews.
A sworn deputy/auto theft detail member also told me scenes from Colaterial were used by the sheriff's office training division for new personnel.

I'd also heard that for a long time, the US Marine Corps training center in San Diego CA used the gunfight scenes in Heat(1995) to demo gun battle tactics to new recruits. ;)

It's been several years since I saw Collaterial so I'm a bit off with the Cruise scenes. I'd say it would take a lot of time & effort to be as skilled a marksman or be as smooth in real life.

Clyde
 
re:Clyde

there is like a quote on the Heat dvd extra material about it. it is specifically about val kilmers reload speed. something akin to drill sergeant: "if this hollywood geek can do it so can you:D

edit sorry
 
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You have to admit the realism when he takes out those two thugs, first by disarming one, and then drilling 3 holes in each of them.
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Sorta...

Watch the footage again in slow motion, focusing on the second threat instead of watching Vincent or the first threat. What you'll notice is that the second threat has to intentionally bobble his draw in order to give Vincent time to pull off the scene.

I liked the scene, it was fun to watch; but I'm not so sure I'd go so far as to call it realistic.
 
^

You also have to take into account that they are actors and have practiced this scene countless times. Everyone knew exactly what was going to happen and when it was going to happen.

If it was some normal bad guy that didn't know it was coming; who knows how he would have reacted.

Still, awesome scene in an awesome movie. The night club scene was also pretty cool.
 
But who's to say a random thug on the street is going to be able to get his gun out and aimed that quickly anyway?

Tom had already started shooting the second guy in under 1 1/2 seconds, that is faster than most people can even hit their first target - and those are people who train seriously for speed. For realistic, plausible self defense scenarios I think the scene was good enough. It might not always pan out the way it did in the movie, but we can't control the way things work out every time.

Interesting discussion from everyone !
 
Tom had already started shooting the second guy in under 1 1/2 seconds, that is faster than most people can even hit their first target - and those are people who train seriously for speed
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I disagree with that analysis of time. I've seen folks draw and hit three targets with double taps in 2.5 seconds.
 
I disagree with that analysis of time. I've seen folks draw and hit three targets with double taps in 2.5 seconds.
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Maybe SOME people can do that, but I am talking about what most people can do. It just seems unlikely to me that some random junkie is going to have crazy wild west style fast-drawing and fast-shooting skills.

Of course anything is possible and we should train for many contingencies but in the case of Tom's scene the bad guy had no idea Tom was about to pull out a concealed weapon and fumbled just to get his gun out of his waistband or pocket.
 
But Glenn, that also means that 70% of IDPA shooters you tested could NOT beat him.

Factor in an apparently somewhat intoxicated low-life, who probably doesn't get a lot of practice, and I'd say it's pretty likely the guy would actually fumble for the gun and not be at top 30% of IDPA shooter's speed.
 
Maybe SOME people can do that, but I am talking about what most people can do.
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Most people, if sufficiently healthy, motivated and trained could do what the Vincent character did. Maybe not the first time, or the 100th time, but give any competent instructor 90 days and a healthy, motivated student, and I'm pretty sure it could be done.

IIRC, the premise of the movie was that this Vincent character is a proffessional hit man paid by a drug cartel .... it would not be any stretch to assume that he would spend more time training than 70%, or even 95% of IDPA shooters.
 
"Maybe quite a few trained people can do it. Didn't I say that in IDPA matches, we found 30% of the top folks can beat Tom? "

Is this supposed to mean the top 30% of all IDPA shooters, or 30% of the top IDPA shooters?

If you identified the top shooters in IDPA as the top 10%, this statement would be saying that 30% of them, or only about 3% of all IDPA shooters could beat the time.

Mark
 
first, I thought it was Glock.

I believe the technique that Vincent/Tom Cruise used was close in combat shooting when your opponents are very close(3 yards or less).

Your simply draw and normally, draw the non-shooting hand to your body to avoid accidentally shooting it.

You shoot from the hip as soon as it clears the holster and gun muzzle is in front of your body, elbow of shooting hand parallel to the ground.

What Vincent/Cruise did was to slap the first guy's arm down with his support hand first.

If my memory serves me right, Vincent/Cruise then turned and engaged in MW(Modern Weaver) to shoot the 2nd guy.
 
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