Kimber Model 84m classic or Sako 85 hunter, in .260 rem.

Another concern even though kimber's customer service is bad, if something goes wrong with my sako i would have to send it to finnland wouldn't i?
No, any warranty work is handled here in the USA, and customizing or modifications can be done by any gunsmith.

Does anyone want to share their bad experience?
Kimber had several issues related to feeding and the quality of their barrels that were well publicized. When these were presented to customer service, the response was generally "deal with it". When issues with Kimber's barrels were brought to their attention, their response was "nothing wrong with the barrel". One of these I know of from the person who owns the rifle, others were related by people I met at shooting ranges. Kimber makes a very nice looking rifle, but it isn't all about looks. Is it? And accuracy with their rifles is only so-so from what I've seen. Savage and Stevens rifles are as ugly as a fence post, but they shoot, and they cost a lot less than a Kimber.
 
Thanks Scorch

I wasn't aware of the widespread barrel problem. The only widespread barrel problem I was aware of was ironically Sako/Tikka stainless barrels blowing up. Apparently they got a bad batch of barrels and they had a kaboom issue. The dissapointment lies in the fact that Sako/Tikka DID NOT send out recall information to registered owners. They instead made the customer call them to see if their gun was affected. The only reason I can think of for this would be to keep hush this issue of utmost safety.

This is not to say there wasn't a barrel problem with Kimbers, but at least they were not unsafe.
 
The barrel problem that Sako had was not widespread and has been addressed long ago---it's over---old news.
They make their own barrels ---it was a bad batch of steel they used in making the barrels.
Once Sako found that the problem was not limited to someone who may have used improper reloads and was in fact a problem with the steel used in making the barrels, they handled it accordingly.
My bet is that they no longer use steel from that supplier or if they do, it is certified and QC'd to death before it's delivered.
There is a large gun shop not far from me, he sells more Sakos than most anyone on the east coast and most always has a good selection---he tells me that he has fewer complaints on Sakos than any other rifle he sells.

Dipper
 
Dipper

I agree with everything you said. The point I am making is that if either brand has had barrel issues, the Sako problem was worse. It was dangerous.

And for the record, the OP stated he didn't have enough money for the Sako so he was looking at the Kimber. If both rifles were free and I got to pick one, I'd pick the Sako same as most of you. I pointed out a few things I think are better on the Kimber but that didn't mean I thought it was a better rifle.
 
I have mutiple Kimber and Sakos. In my opinion, I would get the Remington in Model Seven Stainless and put the savings in better glass. If you are buying it to hunt with, neither you nor the deer will be able to tell the difference in all three. All three will shoot as well as you can hold it.
 
I've got enough remington, i want something different, especially the action. I have 7 or 8 remingtons. And about the kimber's accuracy being so-so, some have been so-so but most of the good reviews i read they were getting anywhere from .5 to an inch groups, which is great to me. Plus if i get a kimber that leaves me 200$ to go into savings for my leupold VX-III 3.5-10 x50mm. Meantime i will be using a crappy BSA lol. But im going to talk to the guy i know if he can get me a sako for 900-1200 ill take it if not, then i have no choice but to take the kimber. I don't mind taking a gambel, and i don't mind if the kimber doesn't shoot right ill send it back to the factory or a gun smith as many times as it takes, but if kimber treats me like crap i will be done with them.
 
Five years ago I would have said the Sako, but the decline I have seen in the last few years in the finnish guns would lead me to say stay away. I don't know if beretta sucked all the talent or money out of the companies when they bought them, but they are nothing like what they once were.
 
Damn i've never heard a bad complaint about sako. I mean i heard the 85s aren't near as nice as the 75s. I heard the 75s are like a work of art.
 
Guntotin is the only guy I've ever heard say anything remotely like that...and he has said it more than once in other posts. He never gives a reason though.
 
NO i am not the only one, wild alaska has posted too.


I used to work in a shop, we sold a ton of Sako's on reputation, the hunter 75 i have in 6 ppc may be the most accurate rifle I have ever shot. After the sale, we started to have problems show up in Tikka's and Sako, particularly as the models changed. Little things, inletting quality, checkering quality, feel of the bits that moved. etc, but the biggest was the
customer service, we had a customer who was a NRA hi power shooter, former employee of federal ammo, come in and buy a Tikka.

Three weeks later he returns with the gun in pieces. The barrel had split. We call the rep who gives us a number for customer service. We called, they start asking all sorts of silly questions, about where he was shooting, and not questions like was he hurt, or what ammo, or anything like that. He shoots Fed GM because he gets it for like 6 dollars a box at the company store.

Finally we get a shipping number and return number and send it back. after 6 weeks, we start calling, he starts calling, and he's getting pissed. We front him a new rifle or refund on our own, not wanting to lose a great customer. 6 months later, we are still calling, 9 months same thing.

Finally just under a year later, we get a call saying they were going to replace the barrel, at his (our ) cost, as he had an obstructed bore. We say ahhh NO, he did not have an obstructed bore, the rifle barrel blew. He was a fanatical record keeper, and he did not have any "missing" shots from a squib load. "oh hmmmmm, let me talk to a supervisor" was the response. Two days later we call, we never heard back from the supervisor. WE get a supervisor on the phone, boss gets really irritated with the supervisor, then tells them to send the rep, as we were pulling the remaining 35 or so of their guns off the wall and returning them. Suddenly the offer changes, gee, we can probably write this one off under customer relations. When we get the rifle back, its UGLY. Who ever did the job was a goon. We returned it to the rep, who replaced it with a new from stock rifle.


Last year, when I was just filling in, we had a guy order two matching Hunters, he was going to alaska, and wanted him and his son to have the perfect guns. The guns ordered were the laminated hunters. When they showed up, they were pathetic. first both had handling marks. Both had uneven matting or blasting patterns on the barrel and actions. Inletting was done by a blind spastic using a fork. I know laminated stocks are at times prone to little chips where the layers are meeting, but this was beyond that, and had someone spend three minutes and filled the divots with epoxy, no one would have noticed, but it was ugly. One rifle still had machining chips in the mag well. The front sling post on the other was off center, and looked to be a turn too deep, crushing down the grain. finally, the butt pad on the same gun was not sanded smooth to the line of the stock. It was close, but for a gun that cost well over a grand, and sold for nearly 1300 bucks, it was not right. We called the local distributor, who said they only had one other in stock, and we could exchange it if we wanted. it was just as bad. Distributor was also willing to say that they were having all sorts of trouble with them as well.

Before the buyout, we sold about 75 to 100 sako a year. he does not carry them anymore.
 
I have this friend of mine who works for a competitor of mine. Very nice guy, knowledgable in our field. Our families vacation together, he and I hunt together...in other words he really is a friend.

There is one area he and I will never agree on. Politics. We are both conservatives, both republicans, but I think GWB is the most liberal, free spending, egotistical moron ever to hold the office...whereas my friend thinks GWB saved this country. Where is the relevance here? No matter how much is proved to the contrary he will never change his stance because he believes it and he will always find a way to defend his position regardless of the stack of proof otherwise. Me too.

Totin, I respect your position but disagree with it. There are many posts in here and every other gun forum on the Tikka's and Sako's. If I walk into 100 gun shops, 99 of the are going to rave about the Tikka's. There is always one...but it is usually a case just like you described. We had this customer, great guy who couldn't have possibly had a squib load or reloaded without my knowledge and he once had this gun.....

Yeah, ok....but I can read first hand in here from people who own these guns how great they are. Because of that I bought one....and I agree wholeheartedly that they are fantastic rifles. In the course of my gun ownership I have dealt with a couple of companies on warranty.

Mossberg, refused to look at the rifle, refused to fix it and refused to give me my money back...on a rifle that was 3 weeks old when I ignored their refusals and dropped the rifle on the gun stores counter. They never did fix it, never did return it and never did refund my money...and I'm better off than I would be if I still owned that piece of junk.

Winchester. I bought a brand new Model 70, it would shoot a 2 foot group at 100 yards. Sent it back....took 4 months for them to look at it at which point they said oh yeah, the barrel has a real problem but we don't make this barrel anymore, we are going to give you a credit towards another of our products. For another 2 months I waited while they got the paperwork through their accounting department. I chose a replacement and that arrived.....take a guess....3 months later. 9 months to replace a rifle that had been fired once and returned, was obviously a manufacturing problem (223 wssm's had a bad batch of barrel chroming)

Winchester. A friend of mine bought a Model 70 that had been sitting on the shelf for some time obviously. We took it to the range and he had a strange hang fire where he pulled the trigger, nothing happened when he leaned back to look at the rifle it went off. He said ammo, I said hand me that rifle. When I cycled the bolt on an empty chamber and then tapped my finger on the back of the bolt the hammer fell. Back to the dealer who swore up and down there was nothing wrong with that rifle. I said, ok...cycle the bolt which genius gun dealer did. Now, set the butt down on the ground with a mild thud...he did and the hammer dropped. You just lost your arm, how did that feel? The rifle is being worked on...still....guess how long ago that was?

Point being, I am sure that you are right about the lag time in getting that rifle replaced...but I'm afraid that is pretty common these days. I also don't think it is silly to ask a high power competition shooter questions about how he was using the rifle. Loading rounds on the lands increases pressure by quite a bit and reloaders know it isn't hard to exceed safe pressures if you are not paying attention. Still, they may well have been in the wrong on that deal...but that is hardly uncommon in the firearms industry.
 
When it all comes down to it, it just proves that both companies even though they are top dollar companies can make mistakes. Right now kimber more than sako. So either way i would be taking a gamble, but more with kimber than sako cause of QC. But if my gun will shoot .75 or a inch mabe 1.25. Ill be happy as it's for hunting, or as one guy said on the other forum, if i can hit a softball consistantly at 300 yards it's fine. Unless my dad gives me a bonus i will go with kimber, also kimber is american, and i don't speak whatever language they speak in finnland, i think it's swedish..
 
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It ain't swedish in finland, its finnish, and it ain't english in the bronx or yonkers or whereever Kimber is in NYC> :D

Feel free to disagree, All i am saying is previous to the buyout, they were a great company with great customer service. now? not so good. Ask at gun shops, not big box stores, they will handle the returns, the phone calls etc. Or PM wild alaska about it.

or here, post #8

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=300858&highlight=beretta


or here

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260123&highlight=beretta&page=2 post 26
 
I will most likely go with kimber, something about the gun idk what it is, but i just feel like i gotta have one, plus the price and money. It will be ok because when im done getting the guns i want i will have a kimber, sako, and a cooper :). The cooper after i get out of college with my DR lol, that cooper custom classic is what 3000$. Thanks for the feedback guys has really helped, ill still look out for a good deal on a sako.
 
As in all things we men do, if there is one that has:

"there is something about it, I gotta have one"

then that is the one. Buy it or you will always wish you had. Life is long, there will be plenty of time for buying others. Be sure to give us a range report!
 
held a kimber today guys OMG most beautiful rifle i've ever laid eyes on. Got to hold a kimber classic, classic select grade, superamerica, and a montana. They were all 270 short mags, of course im going for a 260. But the kimber superamerica was amazing. My dad said he would spot me and i could get the superamerica in .260 but i would have to work it off. And i want some money to get a scope so, im going with the classic, they are ordering it tomorrow.
 
Yes they are a thing of beauty. They have to be handled. That's the impressive part. They point and feel like a feather. The thin hand checkered wrist feels perfect to me.
 
Me too man i was amazed at how soft the pad was too. I have a 20 gauge shotgun and when i was little we got one of my dad's friends who is a gunsmith to order me a special pad it is soft as crap and the kimber pad was softer i was stunned. The bolt was super smooth also, if i had the money i would order a super america that thing is a work of art. Hell i even thought the classic was beautiful. I'm not a fan of the classic select grade.
 
The color of the Walnut will be the same on a 84M or 8400. THe stocks are finished exactly the same. If it were me I think the best bang for the buck is the Classic Select Grade. These are only $50 to $100 more than a standard classic, but you get your choice of ;Grade A Walnut, or French Walnut with an ebony forend cap. I had a 8400 with French Walnut and it was a beauty. The SuperAmerica doesn't seem very practical and I actually like the looks of the bead blasted bluing. By the way, the bead blasted Kimber bluing on the Classics, matches Leupold's matte finish exactly.

84M in Classic "Select Grade" gets my vote. It's a toss up between the French Walnut or Select American Walnut IMO.
 
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