Kimber Jamamatic
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WalterGAII
Moderator
When my REAL .45, G21 is unavailable for some reason, I bring out one of my 70 Series Gold Cups. I was having feeding problems with the G.C. ONLY with the Shooting Star Mag. Bought an extra-long Wolff spring from Brownell's. Trimmed it so that it had two more coils than the spring that came with the mag. Problem solved.
I have a friend who shoots a Kimber Stainless Compact. Even though I postsize my reloads with a Lee Factory Crimp die, my reloads that have first been fired through my REAL .45 won't cycle in his Kimber. I'd guess that the tighter chamber in the Kimber is not conducive to firing reloads made from brass that's been fired from a Glock.
Hey, I'm just pulling your chains about the REAL .45. I like 'em all.
BTW, the proposition that a $2000 1911 race gun is superior to a $500 Glock for self defense is sophomorically silly.
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Shoot to kill; they'll stop when they're dead!
[This message has been edited by WalterGAII (edited November 09, 1999).]
I have a friend who shoots a Kimber Stainless Compact. Even though I postsize my reloads with a Lee Factory Crimp die, my reloads that have first been fired through my REAL .45 won't cycle in his Kimber. I'd guess that the tighter chamber in the Kimber is not conducive to firing reloads made from brass that's been fired from a Glock.
Hey, I'm just pulling your chains about the REAL .45. I like 'em all.
BTW, the proposition that a $2000 1911 race gun is superior to a $500 Glock for self defense is sophomorically silly.
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Shoot to kill; they'll stop when they're dead!
[This message has been edited by WalterGAII (edited November 09, 1999).]
RikWriter,
I can dig it! None of mine cost $2000 - the remaining Wilson 1996-A2 (I sold the Service Grade Classic) cost me about $1200 when they first came out. I got one of the first blue ones with nite eyes and if I had to go into a really bad situation
, it's the one I want with me!
I built the Caspian myself and teamed with a local gunsmith to build the STI, both for a little less money than the Wilson.
If you like the Baer then go to the Handguns for Sale section and buy the Premier II I have listed for $950! It's a hard chrome honey and runs all the time.
I guess I have about a $1000 a$$ but when I ride my Piglet I use a $50 helmet - what does that tell you??
WalterGAII,
If I didn't like 1911's so darn much I would have a whole pack of Glocks - the only OTHER pistol I would be my life on! I may be silly but not THAT silly! They are just so butt-ugly
Mikey
I can dig it! None of mine cost $2000 - the remaining Wilson 1996-A2 (I sold the Service Grade Classic) cost me about $1200 when they first came out. I got one of the first blue ones with nite eyes and if I had to go into a really bad situation
, it's the one I want with me! I built the Caspian myself and teamed with a local gunsmith to build the STI, both for a little less money than the Wilson.
If you like the Baer then go to the Handguns for Sale section and buy the Premier II I have listed for $950!
It's a hard chrome honey and runs all the time.I guess I have about a $1000 a$$ but when I ride my Piglet I use a $50 helmet - what does that tell you??
WalterGAII,
If I didn't like 1911's so darn much I would have a whole pack of Glocks - the only OTHER pistol I would be my life on! I may be silly but not THAT silly!
They are just so butt-ugly Mikey
I have bought 5 kimbers, from the gold match to the custom ans fired thousands of rounds through them in the last 4 months, I has one of them that wouldnt chamber like you did, but I polished the breechface, and it hasnt even hicccuped since. try it........ Kimber is the best.
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10MM Magnum.... tried the rest, now I got the best
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10MM Magnum.... tried the rest, now I got the best
Big George
New member
I just found this board...I must sound like a broken record to those who know me from other boards.
I have nothing but praise for my two Kimbers. (Classic Customs) I own or have owned a few of the current copmpetitors and my conclusion is that Kimber is a vastly superior product. My older Kimber has over 3700 rounds through it and only experienced 3 cases of failing to go into battery during the first 300 rounds...Since then it has been flawless, very accurate, and very smooth.The newer Kimber has been flawless for the first 300 rounds. For a little over $500 it rivals 1911A1s costing much, much, more.
Keep shooting your Kimber, after you install the 18.5 lb recoil spring. I would be real suprised if your problem continues..
Good luck!
I have nothing but praise for my two Kimbers. (Classic Customs) I own or have owned a few of the current copmpetitors and my conclusion is that Kimber is a vastly superior product. My older Kimber has over 3700 rounds through it and only experienced 3 cases of failing to go into battery during the first 300 rounds...Since then it has been flawless, very accurate, and very smooth.The newer Kimber has been flawless for the first 300 rounds. For a little over $500 it rivals 1911A1s costing much, much, more.
Keep shooting your Kimber, after you install the 18.5 lb recoil spring. I would be real suprised if your problem continues..
Good luck!
All of this talk about replacing this,polishing that, grinding here and cutting there !!!!
Come on people, When you buy a new car and it rides like hell do you spend hundreds or thousands of dollars replacing the tires,rims,shocks,struts?
I dont. I take it back to the dealer and if they dont make it right, right then and there, i get my money and move on down the road !
Which is what i would suggest the poor guy with the feed problems do. make sure they know you are mad as a castrated bull and move on !
P.S. Notice im not going to offer new gun suggestions. The same way i dont tell people to buy ford or chevy. buy the one that you like and dont cause problems.
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TIM : )
Come on people, When you buy a new car and it rides like hell do you spend hundreds or thousands of dollars replacing the tires,rims,shocks,struts?
I dont. I take it back to the dealer and if they dont make it right, right then and there, i get my money and move on down the road !
Which is what i would suggest the poor guy with the feed problems do. make sure they know you are mad as a castrated bull and move on !
P.S. Notice im not going to offer new gun suggestions. The same way i dont tell people to buy ford or chevy. buy the one that you like and dont cause problems.
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TIM : )
The guys from Kimber called me this morning. Of course they wanted to blame the problem on ammo or the magazine. I told the guy in the custom shop that the failures were occuring with 230 ball from Remington and Wincheter with the Kimber magazine and a new Colt magazine. The conversation came to an abrupt halt.
The Kimber guy told me to send the gun in right now, no more break in period, no tweaking...just send it in. He told me they have had feed problems with many of their pistols just as any maker of 1911's will tell you. However, he said the Gold Match should feed new 230 ball flawlessly right out of the box, no break in required. The pistol will go back this week.
I called the dealer too, he is 150 miles away. He told me this is his first complaint, but he has only sold a dozen Kimber pistols. He told me to save my bills for insurance and shipping and he will reimburse me.
I know I could take the pistol back for a full refund, no problem. But then what do I do? Buy another 1911 style pistol from another maker? You know, getting a "lemon" from a company like Kimber or Smith and Wesson creates mixed emotions.
On the one hand, the thing should work right out of the box. On the other hand, when a well connected "serious" competitor sends a gun in for warranty work the gun usually comes back better than anything you could hope to get in the same make and model off the shelf. I suspect I will have a very well tuned, ported and polished pistol when the Kimber custom shop is finished. While I am at it I am going to complain about creep in the trigger. Might as well get a custom action job while they are at it. Also, I think I'll let them know about the rear sight being sligtly off center in the dovetail, I bet they set that straight too. I'll give them a tolerance of plus or minus two thousandths...what else should I have them do while they are at it?
The Kimber guy told me to send the gun in right now, no more break in period, no tweaking...just send it in. He told me they have had feed problems with many of their pistols just as any maker of 1911's will tell you. However, he said the Gold Match should feed new 230 ball flawlessly right out of the box, no break in required. The pistol will go back this week.
I called the dealer too, he is 150 miles away. He told me this is his first complaint, but he has only sold a dozen Kimber pistols. He told me to save my bills for insurance and shipping and he will reimburse me.
I know I could take the pistol back for a full refund, no problem. But then what do I do? Buy another 1911 style pistol from another maker? You know, getting a "lemon" from a company like Kimber or Smith and Wesson creates mixed emotions.
On the one hand, the thing should work right out of the box. On the other hand, when a well connected "serious" competitor sends a gun in for warranty work the gun usually comes back better than anything you could hope to get in the same make and model off the shelf. I suspect I will have a very well tuned, ported and polished pistol when the Kimber custom shop is finished. While I am at it I am going to complain about creep in the trigger. Might as well get a custom action job while they are at it. Also, I think I'll let them know about the rear sight being sligtly off center in the dovetail, I bet they set that straight too. I'll give them a tolerance of plus or minus two thousandths...what else should I have them do while they are at it?
I was roundly "flamed" for saying it a while back, but I will say it again. A good gun should function right out of the box with at least ball ammo. If it doesn't it is no good. Period. Don't give me that "tight gun" and "break in" bullhockey. Even pure target pistols should function straight from the factory. That crud is the manufacturer's way of telling you he hopes you will go away and forget about wanting your money back.
I will say that if you plan to carry an auto pistol, it should be able to fire at least 200 consecutive rounds of your carry ammo without a failure. That is not "breaking in" the gun, it is making sure that the gun-ammo combination works. If it won't go 200, change ammo, change gun, or both.
Jim
I will say that if you plan to carry an auto pistol, it should be able to fire at least 200 consecutive rounds of your carry ammo without a failure. That is not "breaking in" the gun, it is making sure that the gun-ammo combination works. If it won't go 200, change ammo, change gun, or both.
Jim
KNOCK ON WOOD, BUT ...
I'm one of those guys with both a Gold Match and an Ultra Carry and I can't get either one of them to jam. A buddy and I go shoot almost every Friday night, 100 rounds minimum each time. I shoot wide, high, low, everywhich way, but these suckers keep shooting. I remember maybe one jam in the first box of ammo. Zip since then.
FWIW there is a similar thread going in the Smithy section with the title "1911 feed reliability: What do I have to do?"
Actually, there are some very detailed suggestions on how you can polish your own gun to improve the feeding. And some interesting comments on what some claim is an inherent trade off in reliability when you get below a 4 " barrel. Beyond my technical experience to evaluate, but still interesting.
I am more concerned, long term, about the use of MIM (metal injected mold?) parts. A Soldier of Fortune review of the Ultra Carry recites a long list of MIM parts in the Kimber UC. There have been some posts here about the MIM parts breaking and then being replaced by Wilson steel parts.
Has anybody had any MIM breakage problems??
I'm one of those guys with both a Gold Match and an Ultra Carry and I can't get either one of them to jam. A buddy and I go shoot almost every Friday night, 100 rounds minimum each time. I shoot wide, high, low, everywhich way, but these suckers keep shooting. I remember maybe one jam in the first box of ammo. Zip since then.
FWIW there is a similar thread going in the Smithy section with the title "1911 feed reliability: What do I have to do?"
Actually, there are some very detailed suggestions on how you can polish your own gun to improve the feeding. And some interesting comments on what some claim is an inherent trade off in reliability when you get below a 4 " barrel. Beyond my technical experience to evaluate, but still interesting.
I am more concerned, long term, about the use of MIM (metal injected mold?) parts. A Soldier of Fortune review of the Ultra Carry recites a long list of MIM parts in the Kimber UC. There have been some posts here about the MIM parts breaking and then being replaced by Wilson steel parts.
Has anybody had any MIM breakage problems??
There's only one hot injection I'm concerned with, and it don't involve my 1911s. Oops, sorry, wrong thread!'
I stand with Jim on this one, I will throw a gun in the river if it don't work out of the box.
That stuff about break-in, is pure snake oil, offered to those who will buy it! I've heard that break-in story from people who should know better! I thought less of their judgment after they shared that insight with me!
I was in a well known gun shop in my area recently and the owner picked up a COLT Gold Cup National Match and smirked because he could wiggle the slide on the frame, drawing my attention to this obvious poor quality vis a vis a Para Ordnance Limited.
My question simply was: Can you shoot better than that gun will hold? Oh no! he answered. Then what's your point? I thought. I said that gun has tolerances to ensure it works with less than perfect ammunition. His response was the sheepish grin of a collector who really did not use firearms as tools, but as objects to delight in.
People that judge 1911s by slide frame fit or such minor foolishness are often fooled by the flashy wanna-bes. I prefer a pistol with a 90 year track record. There is only two I'm aware of, one gum't, one commercial.
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45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel!
I stand with Jim on this one, I will throw a gun in the river if it don't work out of the box.
That stuff about break-in, is pure snake oil, offered to those who will buy it! I've heard that break-in story from people who should know better! I thought less of their judgment after they shared that insight with me!
I was in a well known gun shop in my area recently and the owner picked up a COLT Gold Cup National Match and smirked because he could wiggle the slide on the frame, drawing my attention to this obvious poor quality vis a vis a Para Ordnance Limited.
My question simply was: Can you shoot better than that gun will hold? Oh no! he answered. Then what's your point? I thought. I said that gun has tolerances to ensure it works with less than perfect ammunition. His response was the sheepish grin of a collector who really did not use firearms as tools, but as objects to delight in.
People that judge 1911s by slide frame fit or such minor foolishness are often fooled by the flashy wanna-bes. I prefer a pistol with a 90 year track record. There is only two I'm aware of, one gum't, one commercial.
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45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel!
Keith Rogan
New member
This is probably a fruitless exercise but there are real reasons for expecting a gun to have "break-in" problems and to not judge one until you've shot a few rounds.
Commercial grade firearms are not hand fitted or polished. You are relying on machinery and a quick "eyeball" by some employee during assembly.
Given that, its not unreasonable to expect a few burrs or rough spots that might interfere with function.
Most semi-auto's I've owned have worked right out of the box. A few have had problems initially that straightened out after a few boxes of ammo were run through it.
I've never viewed this as a big problem. The alternative is to expect hand finishing of the piece and to pay the premium for that attention.
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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
Commercial grade firearms are not hand fitted or polished. You are relying on machinery and a quick "eyeball" by some employee during assembly.
Given that, its not unreasonable to expect a few burrs or rough spots that might interfere with function.
Most semi-auto's I've owned have worked right out of the box. A few have had problems initially that straightened out after a few boxes of ammo were run through it.
I've never viewed this as a big problem. The alternative is to expect hand finishing of the piece and to pay the premium for that attention.
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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
As Keith R. says, some rough spots may be inevitable given modern manufacturing methods and the cost of labor. And, yes, these may "wear in" during the first hundred rounds, making a truly reliable gun out of a basically reliable gun. Really, I don't have a problem with this in itself.
Rather, my problem--and why I tend to agree with Jim K.--is that I may not be able to distinguish a basically reliable gun that just needs a little use to smooth out, from a gun that will never be reliable no matter how worn it becomes.
So, the bottom line for me is a question of confidence. A gun that is, for whatever reason, not reliable from the outset leaves this question unanswered in my mind.
Just my $0.02.
Rather, my problem--and why I tend to agree with Jim K.--is that I may not be able to distinguish a basically reliable gun that just needs a little use to smooth out, from a gun that will never be reliable no matter how worn it becomes.
So, the bottom line for me is a question of confidence. A gun that is, for whatever reason, not reliable from the outset leaves this question unanswered in my mind.
Just my $0.02.
This thread is about Kimbers which I have no experience with, but other posters have talked about their reliable 45s so I feel I can speak up. I am extremely pleased with my H&K USP45 FS. It chambers anything I feed it including Winchester 230 Hardball, Triton 185 +Ps, Remington 185 Golden Sabres, my reloads which include: Rem 185 GS +Ps and standards, Rainier 200 JSWC, Carroll's 185 LSWCs and 200 LSWCs. After over 2300 rounds I have had 3 incomplete battery closures(requiring the heal of my hand to the back of the slide)and 1 of those times I know the gun was really dirty. I know the trigger is not as smooth and crisp as a Kimber(or a Les Baer or Wilson)but I would bet my life on the USP anytime.
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"He told me they have had feed problems with many of their pistols just as any maker of 1911's will tell you"
Looks like you better get a Glock 30.
I have 5 of them, each with different sights and such just for fun. They all work right out of the box. Don't need to break them in or any such nonsense. Low maintenance, and every single time I pull the trigger they go bang and hit what I am aiming at. I have NEVER had a FTF of any kind, and the Glock 30 is an extremely accurate model, probably group as well as any fancy 1911. Just a suggestion.
I have had my share of $1000+++ 1911's. They are a nice relic, a nice piece of history, fun to fondle. But, when my ass is on the line, I grab my trusty Glock. It just plain works.
Looks like you better get a Glock 30.
I have 5 of them, each with different sights and such just for fun. They all work right out of the box. Don't need to break them in or any such nonsense. Low maintenance, and every single time I pull the trigger they go bang and hit what I am aiming at. I have NEVER had a FTF of any kind, and the Glock 30 is an extremely accurate model, probably group as well as any fancy 1911. Just a suggestion.
I have had my share of $1000+++ 1911's. They are a nice relic, a nice piece of history, fun to fondle. But, when my ass is on the line, I grab my trusty Glock. It just plain works.
WalterGAII
Moderator
Red Bull:
You is so right. A Glock will fire when a 1911 just whimpers and cries. They're not butt-ugly to me; they're strikingly pulchritudinous!!!!
Hard to beat 18 rounds of .45's that I know are going to go down the pipe just as fast as I can pull the trigger, even if there happens to be an imperfect round mixed in there somewhere.
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Shoot to kill; they'll stop when they're dead!
You is so right. A Glock will fire when a 1911 just whimpers and cries. They're not butt-ugly to me; they're strikingly pulchritudinous!!!!
Hard to beat 18 rounds of .45's that I know are going to go down the pipe just as fast as I can pull the trigger, even if there happens to be an imperfect round mixed in there somewhere.
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Shoot to kill; they'll stop when they're dead!
I always hear these stories about how 1911s aren't as reliable as Glocks, but my personal experience seems to contradict this myth.
4 Kimbers, 4 Colts, 3 Norincos, 2 Para Ordnances, 2 Springfield Armories=no jams.
3 Glock 21s=3 jams.
True, all three jams were with one of the 21s and with one particular brand of ammo, but the significant figure is no jam from ANY factory 1911 I have ever fired. My Kimber Gold Match in particular I TRIED to make jam. I fed it 200 grain Flying Ash Can loads, +P loads, CorBon, HydraShoks, Gold Sabers, Starfires, reloads, factory, no matter, no jams.
So let's see, have had about fifteen 1911s in 45 that were 100% reliable right out of the box. Hmmm. Don't think I am gonna buy into your 1911s aren't reliable myth.
4 Kimbers, 4 Colts, 3 Norincos, 2 Para Ordnances, 2 Springfield Armories=no jams.
3 Glock 21s=3 jams.
True, all three jams were with one of the 21s and with one particular brand of ammo, but the significant figure is no jam from ANY factory 1911 I have ever fired. My Kimber Gold Match in particular I TRIED to make jam. I fed it 200 grain Flying Ash Can loads, +P loads, CorBon, HydraShoks, Gold Sabers, Starfires, reloads, factory, no matter, no jams.
So let's see, have had about fifteen 1911s in 45 that were 100% reliable right out of the box. Hmmm. Don't think I am gonna buy into your 1911s aren't reliable myth.
Hi, folks,
I can't claim to be the world's expert on .45 accuracy jobs, but I have done a few, and I will tell you that it is possible for 1911 type guns to have a good tight frame to slide fit and still be absolutely reliable. Does anyone think the top bore target guys want to be hollering "alibi" all the time?
The target game doesn't have anybody's life on the line, but you better believe those guys aren't happy with less than perfect reliability.
Jim
I can't claim to be the world's expert on .45 accuracy jobs, but I have done a few, and I will tell you that it is possible for 1911 type guns to have a good tight frame to slide fit and still be absolutely reliable. Does anyone think the top bore target guys want to be hollering "alibi" all the time?
The target game doesn't have anybody's life on the line, but you better believe those guys aren't happy with less than perfect reliability.
Jim
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