Kimber does not stand behind its guns

Status
Not open for further replies.
HKFan

Just because I did not mention my Hi Powers, Caspian`s, Colt`s, and Les Baer`s etc. and have only mentioned Glocks and KT`s, you honestly think that is all I own ??? Really ???

By the way I also work on all of them, a Colt 1911 has 3 MIM parts.

Have you ever heard of the Pistolsmiths Guild?

You can start a pi--ing match if you wish, I am not here for a pi--ing match and will not go any further.

Carry on.
 
Last edited:
HKFan, while our opinions/experiences obviously differ to a degree, I don't think there's much for us to argue over. Given that (outside of Taurus semi-auto owners) most people will have good experiences with whatever brand of pistol/revolver they buy, we're talking about variations in the size of the small minority that have trouble with a given brand's guns. There's plenty of room for statistical noise that can explain why what you've seen is somewhat different from what my friend has seen, etc.

I do disagree with you a bit on the break-in issues, but not completely. The problem I have is that some companies appear to bypass final finishing almost entirely these days. Other companies do some of the breaking-in with automated machinery rather than requiring the customer to spend money smoothing things out. Some companies use machines that aggressively cycle the action of each gun several hundred times before they box it up (not quite at live-firing speeds, but much more quickly than hand-cycling). Things like that really don't seem like too much to ask to me, especially on pricier guns.

I see you have four Pythons.... and I don't know their shape or condition, but for being so sought after, the two I owned, and the 1 Andaconda I owned had about the worst revolver triggers I ever felt.... Doesn't mean they are junk guns.
Click to expand...

For starters, the Anaconda deserves some bashing. The non-Python snake guns were nothing amazing in general (though the earlier Diamondbacks were pretty nice). The Anaconda used the cheap King Cobra action and wasn't made with the extensive hand-fitting and honing that the Python was. Both the King Cobra and Anaconda were introduced and largely produced during what most people regard as a pretty dark era for quality at Colt. You can find one Anaconda/King Cobra that will feel pretty smooth and look pretty well put together, and then you can turn around and see another made the same year that has a terrible trigger, nasty cylinder slop, a canted barrel, etc. So bash away. ;)

As for Pythons, they were definitely not immune from Colt's wider problems during that time, and even after Colt got itself straightened out a bit, it was simply too expensive to make them with anything near the care that they had been made with in the early going. Three of my Pythons are from '59, '61, and '70. Each is in 97-99% condition and is, to put it technically, slicker than owl snot. The fourth is an "Ultimate Stainless" one from the early '90s that I bought a few years ago and that fortunately is pretty smooth, but still really nothing like the older ones. I only bought it because I got it LNIB for an insanely low price from the previous owner (that is, for at most 20% of what equivalent ones are selling for now, thanks in part to the "Walking Dead Effect"). I'm not a big stainless fan in general, and I would never pay anything close to market rate for a Python made after the late '70s. The prices you see today for some later Python variants and for other snake guns have little to do with quality and almost everything to do with prices being driven up by collectors and growing popular appeal (via the influence of The Walking Dead, for instance, which has had the biggest impact on the 6" bright stainless Pythons, but which seems to have driven up prices across the Colt revolver lineup). I've seen Pythons from the '80s until the end of production that are pretty deplorable from a fit-and-finish perspective relative to their cost and to their older sisters. (But if you can find one for a nice price, buy it anyway and flip it.)
 
Last edited:
All of the information is useful on this thread. Thank you.
Some of you are in the industry. You might be in violation of your employment agreement, or be violationg a business agreement between your employer and a manufacturer. Be careful.

I upset a manufacturer in another industry by exposing defect rates on line. Upset is putting it mildly. I didn't lose my job. I did get a stern one time warning and told to shut $)ä&÷.
 
HKFan

Just because I did not mention my Hi Powers, Caspian`s, Colt`s, and Les Baer`s etc. and have only mentioned Glocks and KT`s, you honestly think that is all I own ??? Really ???

By the way I also work on all of them, a Colt 1911 has 3 MIM parts.

Have you ever heard of the Pistolsmiths Guild?

You can start a pi--ing match if you wish, I am not here for a pi--ing match and will not go any further.

Carry on.
Click to expand...

For starters.... I never did say I thought that was all you own. However looking briefly at your post history and its mostly about Glocks and Kel-tecs... I have to shake my head at someone making such a stupid statement about MIM when they carry guns using even cheaper and riskier processes. If you don't like Kimbers that is fine, but making a moronic blanket statement about a widely used process, while owning guns with it.... you're better than that.;)

As for Colt, the use 4 MIM parts, the mag catch, mag catch lock, sear and disconnector. They also use 3 investment cast parts, the thumb safety, grip safety, and MSH.

But if you are in the Pistolsmith Guild I am sure you are already aware of those.

You would also be aware if someone doesn't like MIM that bad, the beauty of the 1911 is I can buy a few files, and a few polishing honing stones, and maybe a cheap jig, and hand fit all new internals if I wished, its actually quite a fun project.

I don't care if you own every model of WC, Les Baer, and Nighthawks ect ect... you carry Glocks and KT's.... which says to me you can trust your life to cheap made products with cheap processes. Not knocking them as guns, I own a Glock, and owned more in the past. But it seems pretty silly to make that statement when you depend your life upon guns that are made the same ways if not worse.
 
Last edited:
I do disagree with you a bit on the break-in issues, but not completely. The problem I have is that some companies appear to bypass final finishing almost entirely these days. Other companies do some of the breaking-in with automated machinery rather than requiring the customer to spend money smoothing things out. Some companies use machines that aggressively cycle the action of each gun several hundred times before they box it up (not quite at live-firing speeds, but much more quickly than hand-cycling). Things like that really don't seem like too much to ask to me, especially on pricier guns.
Click to expand...

I have to agree, however I don't see a lot of companies adopting it sadly. Personally when I buy a new gun, I do just that. Spend a lazy day or night on the couch cycling the slide. I had a Kahr PM9 when they first hit the market, I did that, and my 500 round break in went smooth with no issues.

The problem these days is guns are still in high demand, and companies can't meet the demand (lately they are starting to get ahead). But its becoming common practice to shove as much product out of their doors as possible lately.
 
They also use 3 investment cast parts, the thumb safety, grip safety, and MSH.
Click to expand...
The two new production Colt pistols I had for a short time came with plastic MSH and one of them -- plastic parts on the guide rod.
 
"...Para has a lifetime warranty..." Stateside only. Their customer service for Canada, where they began, is non-existent.
However, if a company has a limited warrantee, it has a limited warrantee. And Kimber's is for one year from the original buyer's purchase and covers stuff made after 31 Dec. 1995 only. No used kit, use of hand loaded ammo and nothing "from defects in material and workmanship" after 1 year. Requires a dated bill of sale too. Not exactly an unusual warrantee.
"...investment cast parts..." So does everybody else. Ford, GM and Chrysler included. Cast parts aren't an issue.
"...Ruger does casting so well they..." Taurus does too. MIM isn't an issue.
 
Op post still MIA. LOL
I have a couple Kimber 45 and also a Daewoo DR 200 that was imported by Kimber. I have had no problems with mine
 
Warranty.

Guarantee.

Please note the difference. When spell check underlines the word you can right click it and select the proper spelling.



Sorry, major pet peeve.
 
As much as I am occasionally tempted by Kimber's glossy advertising, the proof continues to mount that they are coasting by almost entirely on reputation/name at this point. As Austin pointed out, every price range with a Kimber has a better option.

They can't trade on the name forever.
 
With the plethora of good 1911's on the market, there is no reason to even consider a Kimber, especially at their price point.
 
HKFan9,

I'm sure you've thought of this, but just in case....

Your Kimber experience, while greater then most individually, is still much smaller then the internet. Which is why you believe, IMHO, that Kimber's bad rap is mostly internet based. Well, sure it is compared to where you live and work. As AustinTX's friend's experience is just as substantial as yours individually, it's just as small compared to the internet, and it's almost the mirror opposite of yours.

Honestly, I look at the internet as the largest sample, and while not foolproof, will give one the biggest pool of information to help develop one's own opinion. Again, it's not perfect, but neither is solely relying on your local retailer. Talk to one, read the other, go handle/shoot if possible, then decide.

My personal experience with Kimber's customer service fits in the "I don't like it" category and involved the pistol's finish. I won't be buying another Kimber because of it, nor do I recommend them, and the pistol functioned fine.

Anyway, my $.02, and worth every penny you paid, lol. :D;)
 
The internet is full of complaints but rarely will you see someone make a big commotion out of something meeting their expectations.

It's like the news anchors holding their "good news" story until the end of their broadcast while the scary one sided inflammatory bit gets the headline.
 
HKFan9,

I'm sure you've thought of this, but just in case....

Your Kimber experience, while greater then most individually, is still much smaller then the internet. Which is why you believe, IMHO, that Kimber's bad rap is mostly internet based. Well, sure it is compared to where you live and work. As AustinTX's friend's experience is just as substantial as yours individually, it's just as small compared to the internet, and it's almost the mirror opposite of yours.

Honestly, I look at the internet as the largest sample, and while not foolproof, will give one the biggest pool of information to help develop one's own opinion. Again, it's not perfect, but neither is solely relying on your local retailer. Talk to one, read the other, go handle/shoot if possible, then decide.

My personal experience with Kimber's customer service fits in the "I don't like it" category and involved the pistol's finish. I won't be buying another Kimber because of it, nor do I recommend them, and the pistol functioned fine.

Anyway, my $.02, and worth every penny you paid, lol.
Click to expand...


While I appreciate and fully understand your thinking and assumptions. I can most definately say people on the internet visting gun boards are a very small percentage of the community that owns firearms in this country, HANDS DOWN. I would estimate nearly 7 out of every 10 customers on average are Average Joe, uninformed about most things firearms, specially lately, even with the big gun scare after Newtown, a lot of the customer base was first time buyers.

People on this board, firearms I would estimate is their lifeblood, so we come here to bicker like school children on our time off cuz we enjoy debating firearms. The estimate last I checked in the US was over 50% of households own guns, including roughly 50% of Democrats own firearms.:p

Those numbers are quite LARGE compared to internet gun board memberships and even lurker traffic.

Now I understand I am just one opinion in the ocean, but you must keep in mind... I have 1000's of experiences in dealing with X Y AND Z guns and manufactures. Where as most people might have 1-3 experiences unless in a similar position like AustinTX's friend.

If you had a bad experience over a finish with Kimber I understand you not liking them. I paid $800 used for my Kimber Desert Warrior, and it only gets cleaned every 1000-1500 rounds, if I am not lazy, and I would put it up against any 1911 out there, even the semi customs and customs.

I owned probably 15 different Kimber 1911's come n gone now, never had a problem with any. Guess I have awfully good luck.:rolleyes:

People don't want to buy Kimbers that's fine, more deals for me I suppose, but I can assure you Kimber has NO problem selling 1911's and based on my experiences probably sell more anually than anyone else.
 
While I appreciate and fully understand your thinking and assumptions. I can most definately say people on the internet visting gun boards are a very small percentage of the community that owns firearms in this country, HANDS DOWN. I would estimate nearly 7 out of every 10 customers on average are Average Joe, uninformed about most things firearms, specially lately, even with the big gun scare after Newtown, a lot of the customer base was first time buyers.

People on this board, firearms I would estimate is their lifeblood, so we come here to bicker like school children on our time off cuz we enjoy debating firearms. The estimate last I checked in the US was over 50% of households own guns, including roughly 50% of Democrats own firearms.

Those numbers are quite LARGE compared to internet gun board memberships and even lurker traffic.

Now I understand I am just one opinion in the ocean, but you must keep in mind... I have 1000's of experiences in dealing with X Y AND Z guns and manufactures. Where as most people might have 1-3 experiences unless in a similar position like AustinTX's friend.

If you had a bad experience over a finish with Kimber I understand you not liking them. I paid $800 used for my Kimber Desert Warrior, and it only gets cleaned every 1000-1500 rounds, if I am not lazy, and I would put it up against any 1911 out there, even the semi customs and customs.

I owned probably 15 different Kimber 1911's come n gone now, never had a problem with any. Guess I have awfully good luck.

People don't want to buy Kimbers that's fine, more deals for me I suppose, but I can assure you Kimber has NO problem selling 1911's and based on my experiences probably sell more anually than anyone else.
Click to expand...

In reality when you do more volume then any other manufacturer even if your QC issue are at the same rate or lower than everyone else there you will still have more defective pistols in the marketplace then anyone else. The prure raw number of issues does not tell the whole story. They sell more than the next 3 sellers combined last time the numbers were published IIRC. That however does not make them good.... LOL

One thing to also consider if you continue your line of reasoning. If boards like this are only a small slice of the gun owning population which I tend to agree with then wouldn't it make sense that there are a lot of Kimber owners out there with defective pistols who have no idea where to complain about the pistols and the service they have received? Many suffer in silence or simple trade it in at a loss.

Kimber got a bad rep when they simply grew to fast under Cohen's leadership. They pumped tons of metal into the market made some bad design choices and never kept up on the CS side. They grew every single part of their business on the production side but left CS under staffed. When the volume of pistols sold with major or minor issues swamped CS at Kimber their rep plummeted with the informed. With the uninformed they kept buying them because they we the prettiest most expense "best" 1911 in the case at most local gun shops. They have recovered someone now that Cohen is running his playbook at Sig. ;)
 
In reality when you do more volume then any other manufacturer even if your QC issue are at the same rate or lower than everyone else there you will still have more defective pistols in the marketplace then anyone else. The prure raw number of issues does not tell the whole story. They sell more than the next 3 sellers combined last time the numbers were published IIRC. That however does not make them good.... LOL

One thing to also consider if you continue your line of reasoning. If boards like this are only a small slice of the gun owning population which I tend to agree with then wouldn't it make sense that there are a lot of Kimber owners out there with defective pistols who have no idea where to complain about the pistols and the service they have received? Many suffer in silence or simple trade it in at a loss.

Kimber got a bad rep when they simply grew to fast under Cohen's leadership. They pumped tons of metal into the market made some bad design choices and never kept up on the CS side. They grew every single part of their business on the production side but left CS under staffed. When the volume of pistols sold with major or minor issues swamped CS at Kimber their rep plummeted with the informed. With the uninformed they kept buying them because they we the prettiest most expense "best" 1911 in the case at most local gun shops. They have recovered someone now that Cohen is running his playbook at Sig.
Click to expand...


I have to agree and disagree. As I stated everyone makes mistakes and yes Kimber did suffer, make flops (one being the OPs gun when they attemtped external extractors)

However given any sample size, they seem to have just as much or less issues as any brand usually toted as Rock Solid (Colt, SA, HK whomever you'd like) I understand the pure numbers of the matter and even my dealings are but a small sample. However I refuse to believe if they are AS terrible as people make them out to be on here they'd be selling 3x as many guns as others. Ads or no ads. Taurus publishes fancy glossy ads too, yet most will tell you they are junk, which in my experience is.

The way I look at it is... there are good guns.. and bad guns.. and that's it. Doesn't matter the brand, Taurus is still in buisness so they have to make some "good" guns. Kimber is still in buisness and doing very well ect.

I never did once refer to them as the best, or close to it, however my experiences which are more than most, have been fine, so I guess I am the exception to the internet rule.;)


I have been hearing for the past 20 years Colt is closing its doors next week because they can't sell anything, maybe Cohen will be heading there next to FIX things.;)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top