Killing Power

I know most rounds don't make things "deader", but some rounds "kill quicker" and don't let animals run as far, or some rounds just kill animals without them moving. I often hear people say that the 300 Win Mag doesn't kill animals any quicker or doesn't keep animals from walking or running any futher than when shot with a 30-06. If so, does that mean a 300 Wby Mag doesn't kill any quicker or make animals expire any quicker than when shot with a 300 Win Mag or 30-06?
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Vital tissue damage kills animals. Heart and lungs destroyed, bones broken, etc.

I have not seen and am of the view that there is not a meaningful difference in a given cartridges or cartridge group's ability to kill (in North America) over another cartridge or group of cartridges until the cartridge caliber starts with a 4, has more than 2000 fps of velocity, and more than 300grns of bullet weight.

Take the OP's original example of a 3006 and a300wm. If anything I have seen the 3006 kill better than the fast 300's as I have had to track, on a 5 to 1 basis more animals wounded by a fast 300 than by a 3006.

Is it because on the average people with 3006's tend to place their shots better? I would suspect so but I do not have enough evidence to prove that.
 
Killing power is related two primary factors: shot placement and bullet performance. Some bullets transfer energy much faster than others. For example, the 44MAG 240 grain XTP by Hornady always hits hard. The bullet flattens out upon impact to produce a wide wound channel thru the chest organs. This type of impact makes for very quick kills every time.

I also have much experience with 30-30 170 grain Power Point bullets. Same type of action every time. Yet both of these cartridges are medium velocity with ballistics that appear un-impressive on paper charts.

Jack
 
Most Americans fall into the "more is better" logical fallacy at some point.

More is better when it comes to a number of things, and completely irrelevant in other areas. With a rifle, once you've crossed over the minimum for an ethical kill, "more is better" just doesn't seem to apply.

Jimro
 
"shot placement is not "everything"... you can shoot an animal in just the right spot, but if you are using a .22 L/R on an elephant, it means nothing..."

Nemesiss, since you've crossed into the silly zone with the .22 vs elephant...

Let me quote you Daja vu's signature quote:

" I'd rather have a 50 BMG in the foot than a .22 short in the base of the skull."

Within the realm of common sense, of course it's the placement of the bullet.
 
i have never seen a forum or group of people who have such contradictory ideas of proper gun selection on game.

if it is really possible to kill game at the ranges people say with such light weight guns.
why did then people invent more powerfull ones.and of coarse i am dismissed because i am from new england and have never taken a shot outside 100 yards.
 
why did then people invent more powerfull ones.
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To SELL of course.

Money is to be made by convincing people that more is better :cool: And the easiest way to do that is to create a long spiehl about how the old and outdated was never really adequate to begin with. Of course it is all BS, but it sure sells firearms.

Jimro
 
I was a hard core magnum fan. Killed ALOT of big game with my 300 Win Mag. After some reality checks at how far and what I was hunting, I went back to the good old non magnum calibers from 270,308 and even a 223. Deer shot with a good expanding bullet dumped them all just as fast as my 300 Win Mag. The 270,308,30-06 will knock em down where they stand with the right bullet and shot placement. I have also discovered a bad shot with the 300 Magnum didn't give any advantage. I have tracked a deer 1/2 a mile with a solid gut shot before I had to finish him off.
In fact, I even challenged that idea with mid power 44 mag loads and they dumped deer as fast as a rifle. I guess the moral of the story is that deer and black bear are not that hard to kill in my experience. This is of course that you know where to put the bullet.
 
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6.5swedeforelk said:
"shot placement is not "everything"... you can shoot an animal in just the right spot, but if you are using a .22 L/R on an elephant, it means nothing..."

Nemesiss, since you've crossed into the silly zone with the .22 vs elephant...

Let me quote you Daja vu's signature quote:

" I'd rather have a 50 BMG in the foot than a .22 short in the base of the skull."

Within the realm of common sense, of course it's the placement of the bullet.
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Yeah, I get that my example sucks, but my point is: cartridge choice is a factor. Maybe that has no place in this thread because the OP only cares about the specific catridges listed... but in the real world when joe blow gows to the store to buy a hunting rifle, common sense is not what gets him the rifle he needs, it is education and research, or at least asking the shop owner. Most everyone on here knows a fair amount about guns, so it is second nature to pick an apropriate catridge that will do the job... but that choice is a choice and it is an important one.

And id agree about the .50 cal foot shot... but id rather take a .22lr in the head than a .50 BMG gut shot
 
Gut shot with a 50 BMG kinda depends a lot on range too. At extreme range it'll punch through without much hydrostatic shock damage, like a pistol round at a much closer range. Still, no one I know wants to get shot with anything.

Crazy as it sounds, I worked with a medic who saved a guy after he was hit in the SAPI plate from a DsHK (russian 50 cal machine gun). The SAPI plate was only rated for M80 ball, but it held, the guy lived. Had to be medevac'd to an actual hospital unit, but he lived.

Jimro
 
If a bullet penetrates the brain or the spine it doesn't matter what kind of bullet that is.

When it's the heart/lung area then part of what brings the animal down is blood loss. The bigger the wound channel and the bigger the exit wound, the faster the animal will bleed out.

The question is whether the difference in cartridges available to deer hunters is big enough to make a difference. For most people and situations I don't think there is an appreciable difference.
 
I hunt elephants with my 10/22 on full auto.

Seriously though, Small rounds at higher velocities and shot placement.
If the round can effectively penetrate through the animal, It doesn’t need to have any more Power, it’ll just be wasted.

For sure you can even kill a dear with a .223 of course, but at any kind of odd range, you’ll probably hit the deer in a bad shot placement zone (And you’ll feel bad :(

Shooting a deer with a .50bmg is just ganna ruin the meat
 
Shot placement is everything.
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Actually, I'd say that shot placement is almost everything, and ALL of the rest is bullet construction - not this bullet construction or that bullet construction, on an absolute scale, but the bullet construction which MATCHES the velocity of the bullet AT the distance at which you make the hit, FOR the game or set of game species you are seeking.

But correct, no such thing as calibers/chamberings that kill better than others. Absolute complete nonsense (which a lot of people apparently believe). The ONLY general rule is, the bigger the better, all other things being equal.

But the exceptions to this rule are huge and nothing trumps shot placement, and even shot placement doesn't guarantee anything (such as instantly dropping) -- go over to youtube and type in doe hit with .50 BMG - look at that small doe hit in the HEART with a 50 BMG with a giant hole blown out the back side. With NO heart left, she ran I think 80 or 90 yards across a field before dropping. Caliber, schmaliber - shot placement and bullet construction that matches your velocity correctly is all that matters. The latter gives you the appropriate tradeoff of expansion vs. penetration, and the former means you hit something vital.
 
With NO heart left, she ran I think 80 or 90 yards across a field before dropping
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That isn't all that surprising, when you think about it. Animals do not die when their hearts stop; they die when their brain cells no longer have adequate oxygen and suffocate. Otherwise, all those fancy defibrillators would be nothing but large expensive chunks of metal.
 
The only way you get fast stops is to interrupt the CNS or do massive bone damage.
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Not sure about that, animals react in all sorts of different ways to being struck by a bullet, same as humans. But it's the only RELIABLE way to assure a DRT result.
 
...Most everyone on here knows a fair amount about guns, so it is second nature to pick an apropriate catridge that will do the job... but that choice is a choice and it is an important one...
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Yes, I see what you're saying, Nemesiss.
Good advice for the rank & file.

IF you can drop'em in a two inch circle every time in hunting situations & environment, wait for a clear shot & freeze your game with a wolf howl, bull grunt, cow meow etc, ANY legal cartridge will do the job.
(If you're bored, look up the .256mag (but loaded with 87gr)).
Would you consider that capable of dropping a moose in his tracks?

To all others that will loudly protest that an off shot will only wound...save it.

The last 4 elk/moose that I was summoned to follow up were wounded with a 30-06, a 300wm, a 300wby, and a 300rum.
 
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