Killing Power

It all depends on what you are shooting at. A .30-378 shooting Bergers definitely causes much more energy transfer and tissue devesdation than a .300 Blackout. All other things being equal, the faster bullet will stop its target quicker than the slower bullet of equal weight and design. Assuming bullet failure does not cause inadequate penetration.
 
Figuratively speaking. If the Gods aren't smiling down on you at the time you pull that trigger regardless of shot placement or caliber used. No quickie kill on tap for you Bub. Best plan on some tracking exercise and new scenery observance while wondering "How in the H--- did that one manage to get away."
FWIW: Killing game instantly won't happen on each and every field outing regardless of someone's shooting skills or refined shooting abilities they may think they possess. All quarry we humans purposely try to harvest have a strong survival instinct intact regardless of wound severity. Their psyche calls for crawl walk run or fly away ASAP.
 
I'm with art Eatman on neck shot, drops em lile a sack of rocks :D



"I've noticed over a few dozen deer that if you break the neck (preferably the white spot) that they don't go anywhere at all. Don't waste any eatin' meat, either"

Y/D
 
I've related this story a couple times, but here it is again...

MRS. cousin was deer hunting over by the Mississippi river & hit a big buck at about 30 yards, with a 12 ga slug... slug hit a rib going in, slug & shattered bone, took out both lungs, with an exit wound nearly the size of a volley ball on the other side... blood spewed everywhere, yet the buck jumped, & ran almost a 1/2 mile up an at least 45* bluff hill, before it fell over completely drained of blood

the ONLY guarantied one shot DRT kill, hits the CNS...

so shot placement, with a cartridge with enough power to hit the CNS is the only sure bet...

after that... yep they die... just how long, how much meat damage...

again another old story I've told many times...

when I was 1st dating ( my now long time wife ) I was the newbie at FIL's deer camp... I think just to make sure I knew how, for several years I was privileged to field dressing all the deer shot... rifles ranged from a .243, several 30-06's, a 300 Win Mag, & a 45-70... everyone was good shots, & we rarely tracked deer... surprisingly the 45-70 often had less blood shot ( bruising ) around the wound track, the .243 & 30-06's had about the same, & the 300 Win Mag had over an inch more radially...

after a couple years, I became a big fan of the 45-70, & less of a fan of the hyper velocity stuff, for anything more than explosive varmint use... but no matter what you're using, you must have a good hit, & the tracking distance can vary greatly, unless you get a CNS hit
 
I've shot quite a few deer with the .243 and the .270, they do fall down faster with the .270, based on my experience. Bigger bullet going same speed hits harder.
 
What I've learned today on TFL

1) Elephants shouldn't be hunted with .22LR :)

2) Animals may appear dead that are not.

3) Animals that appear alive may be dead.

4) Most folks on here can shoot half inch groups at 100 yards. :rolleyes:

5) But, when hunting, can't shoot a group the size of a volley ball. :(

6) Large calibers kill on one end and maim on the other.

7) You never have too much gun, unless it's an RPG. ;)

8) Shot placement is not where your Jack Daniels is put on the bar.

9) Everyone has an opinion, but only mine matters. :p

10) When hunting everything depends on:

A) Rifle brand
B) Bullet brand
C) Caliber
D) Bullet weight
E) Wind direction
F) Phase of the Moon
G) What I was told by someone
H) What I read on The Firing Line
I) All of the above.

Last but not least..... You don't need a rifle (or pistol) to shoot the bull... :D
 
surprisingly the 45-70 often had less blood shot ( bruising ) around the wound track, the .243 & 30-06's had about the same, & the 300 Win Mag had over an inch more radially...
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Not surprised at that, at all. A big slower moving bullet will generally cause less 'blood shot' around the wound than a faster round. High impact speeds with rapidly expanding bullets, almost inherently cause that 'blood shot' due to the severe hydrostatic shock which occurs at the higher velocities. If you were able to get a .458 cal bullet to .243, .300 win mag or .270 win velocities, you'd likely see similar results.

hydrostatic shock is not unlike throwing a rock into a lake, and watching the ripple come out from where the rock hit the water. Now imagine how fierce that ripple would be if you could throw a 130 grain rock at 3200fps. The faster you can get that rock, the more violent that 'ripple' will be. The more violent that ripple is, the more trauma it will cause.
 
"I've noticed over a few dozen deer that if you break the neck (preferably the white spot) that they don't go anywhere at all. Don't waste any eatin' meat, either"
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What's not eatin' meat?

The neck makes good burger and sausage makin's..... unless there are bone and bullet fragments and bruised meat in it.
 
After about 55 years of Maine deer and other game, and being an accuracy/ballistics nut, I encourage my fellow hunters to shoot for the heart/lung/front shoulder, especially when hunting woods roads, power lines, trails, etc. That position causes deer to go DOWN and die quickly more times than other shots and is less risky than neck shots.

Why? Because the head and neck of "calm" deer move more than the area above the front legs. Head and neck shots can be very good or very bad and the margin for error is small.

As far as cartridges/bullets, I like most cartridges between .243 Win and 30-06 because they have adequate power for quick kills. I use a .270 Win for most of my hunting, especially when the range is likely to exceed 300 yards.

Bullets should be designed to open up sufficiently, have adequate energy and enough penetration to make a good exit hole. Little hair is left at entry, much more on exit.

Where I hunt, a straight old County Road, converted to a snowmobile path, we can see deer out to over 500 yards, but due to elevation changes and overhanging branches, 400 is about as far as practicable. Under that condition, the bullet/placement must either put the deer down or leave hair in the road and blood within 30 yards, so we can find where it was hit and follow tracks among many. If that doesn't happen, tracking is very difficult and deer can be lost. I've taken over 20 deer off that stand and been around when about 30 more have been killed there.

The hard part is actually getting a reasonable shot on deer that are walking across the trail. At that particular area, we have a ground blind with a board across that permits accurate shots. Rifles are sighted in at point-blank situation out to 300 yards or more because there's only about 3 seconds to get a lung/heart/shoulder shot as deer cross. Very few animals stand motionless in the road, which is less than 10 feet wide.
 
Picher,

I couldn't agree with you more! Just this last season my brother-in-law and I were having a discussion about deer and neck shots. While I will admit that's what I used to do way back when, I have seen and heard of deer with some gruesome wounds getting away because they moved at the wrong time. Sounds like you have a god old fashioned Texas Sendero up there!;)
 
A number of years back, I spoke with an elderly gentleman (in his early 80s), who had just taken his 8th elk, with a .243 Winchester. He loved that gun, and cartridge, and had 8 DRT elk on it.

He only took neck shots. He didn't take shots at long range. Said the .243 was the best dang elk rifle there was, cause it was accurate, powerful enough, and didn't hardly kick at all.

And for his use, he was quite correct.
He was also one of the (sadly) increasingly rare breed of sportsmen who will pass up a shot they feel less than fully perfect.
 
nemessis45

I'm not making an irrelevant point, I am making a deliberate exaggeration to illustrate my point that is totally relevant to topic. people can and do make the wrong bullet choice
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Actually yes, you are making an irrelevant point.

The OP mentioned 30-06, 300 Win Mag and 300 Wby Mag. Same bore diameter, capable of launching the same bullets at fairly comparable velocities. So the conversation we should be having is what level of importance does a velocity increase mean when talking about lethality on game.

Let me quote the OP, just to remind you of the parameters of the thread.

If so, does that mean a 300 Wby Mag doesn't kill any quicker or make animals expire any quicker than when shot with a 300 Win Mag or 30-06?
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Talking about 22 rimfires and elephants is both irrelevant and not helpful.

When looking at data between cartridges, against big game, the best data I've ever seen came from Sweden, and can be found here: http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...bb/showflat/Number/1521544/page/1#Post1521544

Suffice so say that there is no real measure of statistical difference in number of rounds fired per number of moose killed, but that as bore diameter and bullet velocity increases among commonly used hunting cartridges from the sedate 6.5x55 up to the 9.3x62, the "meters traveled after shot" by the moose somewhat decreases with bore diameter and velocity increases but not enough for me to recommend a 300 Wby Mag over a 308 Win.

I have a few ideas about why the "sedate" cartridges seem to do as well as their magnum counterparts, but mainly that they are cheaper to shoot so a hunter can practice more frequently, and they are easier on the shoulder so a hunter has an easier time avoiding flinch.

Jimro
 
Bullet construction is important, more so than caliber. A co worker was hunting Elk with a 308 Winchester. He said the bullets he was using blew up on the entrance side of the hide and it took all the ammunition he had to kill the suffering animal. He found a better bullet, something that held together, and he had no complaints about the 308 on Elk.
 
The thing to take into account is velocity and bullet performance. all 3 of your listed calibe4s are 308 diameter so none are going to leave a larger entrance hole but at 250 yards a 300 win mag is still going faster than a 3006 which can mean the difference between a dime sized mass lodged inside an organ and a nickel sized exit wound. The same can be said for a 300 wby over 300 win mag
 
I know from personal and family experience that an '06 will kill Bambi at 350, 450 and 500 yards. All you gotta do is hit the right place.

Okay, I found that my 2" high at 100 yards sight-in means four feet of holdover at 500. From that experience, I'm confident of two feet low at 400 and maybe six inches low at 300.

So, out to 300 yards, I don't have to think. Beyond that, I gotta dope the wind and maybe use a rangefinder.

"Dead's dead, and faster don't make Bambi no deader." -- Me :D
 
Depends what your hunting but shot placement is not particular shot placement to the animal but the placement the round performs best on the animal the best all around is the 30.06 with trophy bonded bear claw it will kill anything in North America and has
 
@the OP- I can only comment on whitetail experience as I have yet to hunt anything larger. But I have shot my share of deer with both a 30-06 (165 sierraBT) and 50cal BP (45cal 250gr SST). I only take good shots. But I have no idea how to track because nothing has ever moved more than a step.
 
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