Kids in the house and night stand guns: empty chamber?

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USNRet93 said:
Don't want to argue this very small point but how would the kid know this 'safety round' was in there vs an unloaded chamber. Either squeeze the trigger, and it 'clicks' or squeeze the trigger and nothing happens(chamber empty)..but it either case, if the kid knows to rack the slide-bad news..


It really doesn't 'disable the firearm', does it? The kid can still rack the slide. It's akin to a snap cap, correct? 'Disable' would mean he can't rack the slide at all.


Guess I don't get it..how this is different than a snapcap.
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My understanding is that you chamber this round and that way if a kid finds your gun and pulls the trigger the round gets jammed in the gun and it won't cycle. You have to dislodge the round by sticking a rod into the muzzle and pushing on the round.

The reason most people don't like this device is that if you forget to eject the round before you go to use your gun, when you pull the trigger your gun is now disabled until you find something to stick in the muzzle to remove the round. Not a good system for a defensive gun in my opinion. If you did go this route, you better train that way too.
 
USNRet93 said:
Don't want to argue this very small point but how would the kid know this 'safety round' was in there vs an unloaded chamber. Either squeeze the trigger, and it 'clicks' or squeeze the trigger and nothing happens(chamber empty)..but it either case, if the kid knows to rack the slide-bad news..

what the kid would do first is pull the trigger, and that would disable the firearm.
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It really doesn't 'disable the firearm', does it? The kid can still rack the slide. It's akin to a snap cap, correct? 'Disable' would mean he can't rack the slide at all.
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No, it is not akin to a snap cap. A snap cap is inert. This safety bullet is loaded with a primer, and a special bullet. The primer fires the bullet, with then expands or extends arms or something I've forgotten (it has been awhile since I first came across it) that causes the action to lock up. The gun has to be disassembled to clear it and return it to use.

The solution to the possibility that a kid might automatically rack the slide is to either leave the chamber empty with the safety bullet first in the magazine, or to load two of the safety bullets before any live ammo.

I am not a shill for the product, but I do see it as another option. Whether or not it's appropriate for your situation depends on the specifics of you and your situation. I live alone, so I don't need it. If I still had kids in the house I would give it a hard look. Don't dismiss it if you haven't even taken the time to look at it and understand what it is and how it works.
 
I wasn't familiar with this product until reading this thread, but I did follow the link, read about it, and watch the video. The big thing that bothers me about this is that the kid who sneaks around and pulls the trigger on a pistol is not going to be a kid who tells Mom and Dad or Grandma and Grampa that they did it. Then the next time the pistol is picked up it doesn't fire. Big difference in that happening at the range or under duress.
 
FAS1 said:
My understanding is that you chamber this round and that way if a kid finds your gun and pulls the trigger the round gets jammed in the gun and it won't cycle. You have to dislodge the round by sticking a rod into the muzzle and pushing on the round.

The reason most people don't like this device is that if you forget to eject the round before you go to use your gun, when you pull the trigger your gun is now disabled until you find something to stick in the muzzle to remove the round. Not a good system for a defensive gun in my opinion. If you did go this route, you better train that way too.
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This safety bullet is loaded with a primer, and a special bullet. The primer fires the bullet, with then expands or extends arms or something I've forgotten (it has been awhile since I first came across it) that causes the action to lock up. The gun has to be disassembled to clear it and return it to use.
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From the ad website-Just don't see the 'rod down muzzle' or 'disassemble' part.
• If you need to use your firearm, simply cycle the action to eject the Safety Bullet® and load a live round
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Just my take/opinion, a gun with a empty chamber is like driving your car thinking you'll get your seat belt on before the crash.
 
Just my take/opinion, a gun with a empty chamber is like driving your car thinking you'll get your seat belt on before the crash.
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Exactly.

Start teaching them as soon as they can understand the difference between yes and no. That is part of your responsibility as parent.

When my kids were born, I bought a gun safe. My guns were either in my immediate control or locked up until they became educated on them. I also got a pocket pistol (.40 cal AMT Backup) to carry at home, a pistol safe by the nightstand, and kept my loaded shotgun in the safe. The pocket pistol got me to the nightstand which got me to shotgun. The pocket pistol was there for the immediate threat.

My girls grew up with guns and even had their own at an early age. They had their own adult pellet rifles and I set up an indoor range with pellet traps for them. There were never any mysteries in the gun safe to them. Anytime they were curious we opened it up together and took the time to pass on a culture of safety. They learned, earned trust, and were allowed to take responsibility. I watched them pass that on to their friends in the backyard and at the local range. By the time High School came around, both ended up on the JROTC rifle team at their school and in college, ROTC.

My Home Defense also changed as my children grew up. I eventually went to a loaded duty pistol"in the nightstand" and a shotgun stashed nearby. All of them ready to perform their intended duties.

Leaving a loaded weapon accessible to young, uneducated children is irresponsible. Leaving a weapon in a condition is not able to perform its intended duty of defending your family is also irresponsible. Your Home Defense tactics and tools must adapt to fulfill both.
 
USNRet93 said:
From the ad website-Just don't see the 'rod down muzzle' or 'disassemble' part.
• If you need to use your firearm, simply cycle the action to eject the Safety Bullet® and load a live round
Click to expand...
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This is if the gun has NOT been fired and the action locked up by the safety bullet. Once the safety bullet has been fired, you cannot cycle the action.
 
To me it's a pretty simple matter of odds. I have a weapon at home in case someone of ill intent breaks in AND is intent on harming us, not just grabbing the nearest item and dashing out again. I live in boring suburbia where the worst crime in 15 years was a string of petty thefts from unlocked cars parked in driveways. Yes, clearly, nobody is immune to crime and it can happen anywhere, and people in sleepy gated communities occasionally meet with tragedy, sure.

But the odds of someone like that getting into my home are about the same as an airliner falling on my house.

The odds of my children being in my house are 300% (that's 100% x 3 kids). The odds of them actually behaving in a trustworthy, reliable fashion are about... 0%. They've all been taught, and the oldest has been to the range quite a few times. But they're kids, and they're human, and humans do stupid things all the time.

But any firearm not intended to be deployed quickly is unloaded and locked in a safe, with ammo locked in a different cabinet. Anything meant for self defense is in a biometric safe with keypad. I am willing to lose a few extra seconds retrieving that firearm in the 0.00000001% chance I need it, than to lose children in the much higher chance that they might get their hands on something.

Things that have happened when guns were left unsecured, even around "trained" kids, and even kids who knew how to handle guns and were otherwise responsible and trustworthy...

1. Kid shoots his friend.
2. Kid shoots his foot.
3. Kid shoots a sibling.
4. Kid shoots up a school and everyone says "But we'd never have expected HE would be the one!"

Nope. Not worth it. Too many quick, affordable safes available today. Leaving a loaded gun easily accessible is putting a shark in your swimming pool and hoping it leaves you alone.
 
FAS1 said:
Then you haven't watched the video on the website. It's at the 1:25 minute mark. You are correct that you don't have to disassemble the gun.
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Just did and they need to change the text and change the ‘simply cycle the action’ part and mention the delrin rod’....
This is if the gun has NOT been fired and the action locked up by the safety bullet. Once the safety bullet has been fired, you cannot cycle the action
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Get that now....
 
Things that have happened when guns were left unsecured, even around "trained" kids, and even kids who knew how to handle guns and were otherwise responsible and trustworthy...

1. Kid shoots his friend.
2. Kid shoots his foot.
3. Kid shoots a sibling.
4. Kid shoots up a school and everyone says "But we'd never have expected HE would be the one!"
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By definition your children are not responsible and trustworthy if any of that happens.

You are absolutely right in that your security posture needs to adapt to your situation. If you live in Westwood Cincinnati you will need a different security plan from someone who lives in the Tetons of Wyoming.
 
Just did and they need to change the text and change the ‘simply cycle the action’ part and mention the delrin rod’....
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You can keep your firearms secure and prevent a tragedy by keeping them secured at all times.

That means either on your person ready to be used or locked up in a safe. In my experience anything that looks like a loaded gun but is perfectly safe is NOT the mentality one needs to develop around firearms.
 
davidsog said:
By definition your children are not responsible and trustworthy if any of that happens.

You are absolutely right in that your security posture needs to adapt to your situation. If you live in Westwood Cincinnati you will need a different security plan from someone who lives in the Tetons of Wyoming.
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Point taken, but plenty of kids show themselves to be trustworthy and responsible, until they aren't.

Know plenty of parents of "good" kids who shocked them by doing any number of stupid things because they caved to someone's pressure, or whatever.

Point is, it is not worth the risk.
 
Point taken, but plenty of kids show themselves to be trustworthy and responsible, until they aren't.

Know plenty of parents of "good" kids who shocked them by doing any number of stupid things because they caved to someone's pressure, or whatever.

Point is, it is not worth the risk.
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I would still say then you have not taught them.

Living a culture of safety and developing life long habits is the only that works when it comes to guns and defense.
 
Here's my personal experience with two boys that have completely different personalities. This is also when I decided I wanted a secure way to store a home defense gun and wasn't happy with what was available so I started to design what I was looking for in a quick access handgun safe.

Both my son's knew gun safety and had shot all my guns at the range. Never had an issue with them about guns or really any problems with them growing up. They were good kids and now they are both married and are good husbands and fathers themselves. Neither one really showed much interest in firearms as they were involved in other sports.

When my oldest was around 11 or 12 one of his friends came by while I was reloading in the garage when he said "I know where your gun is". I was a little shocked! I kept a loaded pistol in my toolbox at the time. All other guns were in the safe. It was a small .25 caliber pocket gun. I asked him where and he pointed to the correct drawer. When I asked how he knew that he said my son showed it to him.

Neither of them touched it but what if his friend said "cool" and grabbed for it? Needless to say the gun was removed from that spot and we all discussed what happened. That is when I decided to build the handgun safe that I now sell. It was a real eye opener for me and no matter how good your kids are and how well you communicate with them, please don't leave that unknown element up to chance. We all make some bad decisions in our lives and it only takes a second when a gun is involved. Kids are curious and that's how they learn. I think you have to do everything you can to help your kids to make good decisions.
 
Kids are curious and that's how they learn. I think you have to do everything you can to help your kids to make good decisions.
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Excellent philosophy IMHO.

I could not agree more with the idea of "hiding" a pistol. It is such a common mistake that leads to tragedy. You are literally planting a mine or a booby trap for the unsuspecting.

The guns in the house should not be a mystery to your children. Guns should either be secured on your person or in a safe when those children are too small to understand the concepts of gun safety.
 
I could not agree more with the idea of "hiding" a pistol. It is such a common mistake that leads to tragedy. You are literally planting a mine or a booby trap for the unsuspecting.

The guns in the house should not be a mystery to your children. Guns should either be secured on your person or in a safe...when those children are too small to understand the concepts of gun safety.
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I agree wholeheartedly with these two well reasoned statements...but would offer a comment on the underlined part.

As a grandfather, my granddaughters are often in the house at unusual times...6:30 in the am...for example...and they often have friends with them...we're talking about kids of 8 years old or younger, and it's my opinion that their young age added to the add'l friends that my show up, makes reliance on training alone unrealistic. The draconian consequences of an unannounced visit with untrained & curious friends leaves me no option....

The guns are locked up in the safe unless I'm wearing or using them. Good post/summation DavidSog! Rod
 
Over and over on various internet forums I see comments from people who think their kids are perfectly trained and would never do anything dangerous with a gun when adults are not around. I say hogwash to that.

Kids lie. Kids misbehave. I misbehaved when I was a kid. You misbehaved when you where a kid. If you deny that you misbehaved, then I am 100% certain that you lie. So why do you think that your kids will be perfect angels? They are not.

Kids cannot be trusted with guns when adults are not around. If you have kids, kept the guns locked up. Keep them locked up!!!. KEEP THEM LOCKED UP!
 
cjwils said:
Over and over on various internet forums I see comments from people who think their kids are perfectly trained and would never do anything dangerous with a gun when adults are not around. I say hogwash to that.

Kids lie. Kids misbehave. I misbehaved when I was a kid. You misbehaved when you where a kid. If you deny that you misbehaved, then I am 100% certain that you lie. So why do you think that your kids will be perfect angels? They are not.

Kids cannot be trusted with guns when adults are not around. If you have kids, kept the guns locked up. Keep them locked up!!!. KEEP THEM LOCKED UP!
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Amen, and thank you.
 
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