Kerry's Real Military Record
- Thread starter Hard Ball
- Start date
Tactical Arms
Moderator
"Although the men quoted above are often identified as "John Kerry's shipmates," only one of them, Steven Gardner, actually served under Lt. Kerry's command on a Swift boat. The other men who served under Kerry's command continue to speak positively of him:
"In 1969, I was Sen. Kerry's gun mate atop of the Swift boat in Vietnam. And I just wanted to let everyone know that, contrary to all the rumors that you might hear from the other side, Sen. Kerry's blood is red, not blue. I know, I've seen it.
"If it weren't for Sen. John Kerry, on the 28th of February 1969, the day he won the Silver Star . . . you and I would not be having this conversation. My name would be on a long, black wall in Washington, D.C. I saw this man save my life."
— Fred Short
"I can still see him now, standing in the doorway of the pilothouse, firing his M-16, shouting orders through the smoke and chaos . . . Even wounded, or confronting sights no man should ever have to see, he never lost his cool.
I had to sit on my hands [after a firefight], I was shaking so hard . . . He went to every man on that boat and put his arm around them and asked them how they're doing. I've never had an officer do that before or since. That's the mettle of the man, John Kerry."
— David Alston
"What I saw back then [in Vietnam] was a guy with genuine caring and leadership ability who was aggressive when he had to be. What I see now is a guy who's not afraid to tackle tough issues. And he knows what the consequences are of putting people's kids in harm's way."
— James Wasser
Many of Kerry's Vietnam commanders and fellow officers also continue to speak positively of him:
Navy records, fitness reports by Kerry's commanders and scores of interviews with Swift boat officers and crewmen depict a model officer who fought aggressively in river ambushes and won the respect of many of his crewmates and commanders, even as his doubts about the war grew.
"I don't like what he said after the war," said Adrian Lonsdale, who commanded Kerry for three months in 1969. "But he was a good naval officer."
"I don't know what conclusions you can draw about someone's ability to lead from their combat experience, but John's service was commendable," said James J. Galvin, a former Swift boat officer . . . "He played by the same rules we all did."
. . . Hoffman and Kerry had few direct dealings in Vietnam. A Los Angeles Times examination of Navy archives found that Hoffman praised Kerry's performance in cabled messages after several river skirmishes."
http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/swift.asp
"In 1969, I was Sen. Kerry's gun mate atop of the Swift boat in Vietnam. And I just wanted to let everyone know that, contrary to all the rumors that you might hear from the other side, Sen. Kerry's blood is red, not blue. I know, I've seen it.
"If it weren't for Sen. John Kerry, on the 28th of February 1969, the day he won the Silver Star . . . you and I would not be having this conversation. My name would be on a long, black wall in Washington, D.C. I saw this man save my life."
— Fred Short
"I can still see him now, standing in the doorway of the pilothouse, firing his M-16, shouting orders through the smoke and chaos . . . Even wounded, or confronting sights no man should ever have to see, he never lost his cool.
I had to sit on my hands [after a firefight], I was shaking so hard . . . He went to every man on that boat and put his arm around them and asked them how they're doing. I've never had an officer do that before or since. That's the mettle of the man, John Kerry."
— David Alston
"What I saw back then [in Vietnam] was a guy with genuine caring and leadership ability who was aggressive when he had to be. What I see now is a guy who's not afraid to tackle tough issues. And he knows what the consequences are of putting people's kids in harm's way."
— James Wasser
Many of Kerry's Vietnam commanders and fellow officers also continue to speak positively of him:
Navy records, fitness reports by Kerry's commanders and scores of interviews with Swift boat officers and crewmen depict a model officer who fought aggressively in river ambushes and won the respect of many of his crewmates and commanders, even as his doubts about the war grew.
"I don't like what he said after the war," said Adrian Lonsdale, who commanded Kerry for three months in 1969. "But he was a good naval officer."
"I don't know what conclusions you can draw about someone's ability to lead from their combat experience, but John's service was commendable," said James J. Galvin, a former Swift boat officer . . . "He played by the same rules we all did."
. . . Hoffman and Kerry had few direct dealings in Vietnam. A Los Angeles Times examination of Navy archives found that Hoffman praised Kerry's performance in cabled messages after several river skirmishes."
http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/swift.asp
Tactical Arms
Moderator
"Indeed, the Silver Star citation makes clear that Kerry's performance on that day was both extraordinary and risky. "With utter disregard for his own safety and the enemy rockets," the citation says, Kerry "again ordered a charge on the enemy, beached his boat only 10 feet from the Viet Cong rocket position and personally led a landing party ashore in pursuit of the enemy . . . The extraordinary daring and personal courage of Lt. Kerry in attacking a numerically superior force in the face of intense fire were responsible for the highly successful mission."
...According to Kerry's Bronze Star citation (signed by Admiral Zumwalt himself):
"Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry was serving as an Officer-in-Charge of Inshore Patrol Craft 94, one of five boats conducting a Sealords operation in the Bay Hap River. While exiting the river, a mine detonated under another Inshore Patrol Craft and almost simultaneously, another mine detonated wounding Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry in the right arm. In addition, all units began receiving small arms and automatic weapons fire from the river banks. When Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry discovered he had a man overboard, he returned upriver to assist. The man in the water was receiving sniper fire from both banks. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry directed his gunners to provide suppressing fire, while from an exposed position on the bow, his arm bleeding and in pain and with disregard for his personal safety, he pulled the man aboard. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry then directed his boat to return to and assist the other damaged boat to safety. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry's calmness, professionalism and great personal courage under fire were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service.""
http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp
...According to Kerry's Bronze Star citation (signed by Admiral Zumwalt himself):
"Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry was serving as an Officer-in-Charge of Inshore Patrol Craft 94, one of five boats conducting a Sealords operation in the Bay Hap River. While exiting the river, a mine detonated under another Inshore Patrol Craft and almost simultaneously, another mine detonated wounding Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry in the right arm. In addition, all units began receiving small arms and automatic weapons fire from the river banks. When Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry discovered he had a man overboard, he returned upriver to assist. The man in the water was receiving sniper fire from both banks. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry directed his gunners to provide suppressing fire, while from an exposed position on the bow, his arm bleeding and in pain and with disregard for his personal safety, he pulled the man aboard. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry then directed his boat to return to and assist the other damaged boat to safety. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry's calmness, professionalism and great personal courage under fire were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service.""
http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp
Tactical Arms
Moderator
""Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" is a group formed March 23 after Kerry wrapped up the Democratic nomination. It held a news conference May 4 denigrating Kerry's military record and his later anti-war pronouncements during the 1970's. The group began running an attack ad Aug. 5 in which 13 veterans variously say Kerry is "not being honest" and "is lying about his record."
Where the Money Comes From
Although the word "Republican" does not appear in the ad, the group's financing is highly partisan. The source of the Swift Boat group's money wasn't known when it first surfaced, but a report filed July 15 with the Internal Revenue Services now shows its initial funding came mainly from a Houston home builder, Bob R. Perry, who has also given millions to the Republican party and Republican candidates, mostly in Texas, including President Bush and Republican Majority Leader Tom DeLay, whose district is near Houston.
Perry gave $100,000 of the $158,750 received by the Swift Boat group through the end of June, according to its disclosure report.
Perry and his wife Doylene also gave more than $3 million to Texas Republicans during the 2002 elections, according to a database maintained by the Institute on Money in State Politics. The Perrys also were among the largest Republican donors in neighboring Louisiana, where they gave $200,000, and New Mexico, where they gave $183,000, according to the database.
At the federal level the Perrys have given $359,825 since 1999, including $6,000 to Bush's campaigns and $27,325 to DeLay and his political action committee, Americans for a Republican Majority, according the a database maintained by the Center for Responsive Politics."
http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=231
Where the Money Comes From
Although the word "Republican" does not appear in the ad, the group's financing is highly partisan. The source of the Swift Boat group's money wasn't known when it first surfaced, but a report filed July 15 with the Internal Revenue Services now shows its initial funding came mainly from a Houston home builder, Bob R. Perry, who has also given millions to the Republican party and Republican candidates, mostly in Texas, including President Bush and Republican Majority Leader Tom DeLay, whose district is near Houston.
Perry gave $100,000 of the $158,750 received by the Swift Boat group through the end of June, according to its disclosure report.
Perry and his wife Doylene also gave more than $3 million to Texas Republicans during the 2002 elections, according to a database maintained by the Institute on Money in State Politics. The Perrys also were among the largest Republican donors in neighboring Louisiana, where they gave $200,000, and New Mexico, where they gave $183,000, according to the database.
At the federal level the Perrys have given $359,825 since 1999, including $6,000 to Bush's campaigns and $27,325 to DeLay and his political action committee, Americans for a Republican Majority, according the a database maintained by the Center for Responsive Politics."
http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=231
"Many of Kerry's Vietnam commanders and fellow officers also continue to speak positively of him"
Oh? The famous "band of brothers" photograph which Kerry has repeatedly used in his campaign shows 23 officers of the swift boat squadron. One is Kerry. One supports Kerry. The other 21 oppose him. They were there and participated in the actions during Kerry's brief 4 month tour. Care to explain that?
Oh? The famous "band of brothers" photograph which Kerry has repeatedly used in his campaign shows 23 officers of the swift boat squadron. One is Kerry. One supports Kerry. The other 21 oppose him. They were there and participated in the actions during Kerry's brief 4 month tour. Care to explain that?
Tactical Arms
Moderator
"I came to know Lt. John Kerry during the spring of 1969. He and his swift boat crew assisted in inserting our Special Forces team and our Chinese Nung soldiers into operational sites in the Cau Mau Peninsula of South Vietnam. I worked with him on many operations and saw firsthand his leadership, courage and decision-making ability under fire.
On March 13, 1969, John Kerry's courage and leadership saved my life.
While returning from a SEA LORDS operation along the Bay Hap River, a mine detonated under another swift boat. Machine-gun fire erupted from both banks of the river, and a second explosion followed moments later. The second blast blew me off John's swift boat, PCF-94, throwing me into the river. Fearing that the other boats would run me over, I swam to the bottom of the river and stayed there as long as I could hold my breath.
When I surfaced, all the swift boats had left, and I was alone taking fire from both banks. To avoid the incoming fire, I repeatedly swam under water as long as I could hold my breath, attempting to make it to the north bank of the river. I thought I would die right there. The odds were against me avoiding the incoming fire and, even if I made it out of the river, I thought I'd be captured and executed. Kerry must have seen me in the water and directed his driver, Del Sandusky, to turn the boat around. Kerry's boat ran up to me in the water, bow on, and I was able to climb up a cargo net to the lip of the deck. But, because I was nearly upside down, I couldn't make it over the edge of the deck. This left me hanging out in the open, a perfect target. John, already wounded by the explosion that threw me off his boat, came out onto the bow, exposing himself to the fire directed at us from the jungle, and pulled me aboard.
For his actions that day, I recommended John for the Silver Star, our country's third highest award for bravery under fire. I learned only this past January that the Navy awarded John the Bronze Star with Combat V for his valor. The citation for this award, signed by the Commander of U.S. Naval Forces, Vietnam, Vice Admiral Elmo Zumwalt, read, "Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry's calmness, professionalism and great personal courage under fire were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service." To this day I am grateful to John Kerry for saving my life. And to this day I still believe that he deserved the Silver Star for his courage."
---Jim Rassmann
Mr. Rassmann, a retired lieutenant with the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department, served with the U.S. Army 5th Special Forces Group in Vietnam 1968-69.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110005460
On March 13, 1969, John Kerry's courage and leadership saved my life.
While returning from a SEA LORDS operation along the Bay Hap River, a mine detonated under another swift boat. Machine-gun fire erupted from both banks of the river, and a second explosion followed moments later. The second blast blew me off John's swift boat, PCF-94, throwing me into the river. Fearing that the other boats would run me over, I swam to the bottom of the river and stayed there as long as I could hold my breath.
When I surfaced, all the swift boats had left, and I was alone taking fire from both banks. To avoid the incoming fire, I repeatedly swam under water as long as I could hold my breath, attempting to make it to the north bank of the river. I thought I would die right there. The odds were against me avoiding the incoming fire and, even if I made it out of the river, I thought I'd be captured and executed. Kerry must have seen me in the water and directed his driver, Del Sandusky, to turn the boat around. Kerry's boat ran up to me in the water, bow on, and I was able to climb up a cargo net to the lip of the deck. But, because I was nearly upside down, I couldn't make it over the edge of the deck. This left me hanging out in the open, a perfect target. John, already wounded by the explosion that threw me off his boat, came out onto the bow, exposing himself to the fire directed at us from the jungle, and pulled me aboard.
For his actions that day, I recommended John for the Silver Star, our country's third highest award for bravery under fire. I learned only this past January that the Navy awarded John the Bronze Star with Combat V for his valor. The citation for this award, signed by the Commander of U.S. Naval Forces, Vietnam, Vice Admiral Elmo Zumwalt, read, "Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry's calmness, professionalism and great personal courage under fire were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service." To this day I am grateful to John Kerry for saving my life. And to this day I still believe that he deserved the Silver Star for his courage."
---Jim Rassmann
Mr. Rassmann, a retired lieutenant with the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department, served with the U.S. Army 5th Special Forces Group in Vietnam 1968-69.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110005460
The whole afadavit thing on that website still amounts to "he said/she said". These guys would have plenty of reason to dislike a man that became a war protestor, asserted crimes and is a liberal - not exactly free and clear of any sort of agenda.
I'm not saying who's lying or wrong, but one picture of Kerry standing next to the Christmas tree at headquarters would be worth alot more than a drawer full of sworn statements.
I'm not saying who's lying or wrong, but one picture of Kerry standing next to the Christmas tree at headquarters would be worth alot more than a drawer full of sworn statements.
Tactical, Snope's dutiful recitation of the Democrat Partly Line isn't going to cut it. Some of the folks quoted there have been caught with their hands in the cookie jar.
http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york200408160842.asp
And please note that Kerry's ENTIRE CHAIN OF COMMAND IS OPPOSED TO HIS ELECTION.
http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york200408160842.asp
And please note that Kerry's ENTIRE CHAIN OF COMMAND IS OPPOSED TO HIS ELECTION.
Fred Hansen
New member
Well looky here! A person with a screen name [depicting the type(s) of firearms that John "Frenchie" Kerry has sought to ban with every single RKBA VOTE HE HAS EVER CAST!!!] can cut and paste. Bravo Zulu to you sir! Bravo Zulu indeed!!! 
Truth be told I love DU members as much as the next guy, but the quacky kind, not the loony kind.
Source
Truth be told I love DU members as much as the next guy, but the quacky kind, not the loony kind.
All of the boats could not have left since PCF-3 was disabled in the mine blast. But maybe we should take an Army guy's word for PCF-3's seaworthiness.
Source
I can cut and paste too. :barf:
Fred Hansen
New member
I meant to add my thanks for all the laughter you provided by introducing an eyewitness/participant in the incident who by his own testimony "witnessed" the first few moments of said incident from the bottom of a river. I say again Bravo Zulu! LMAO
Nice try "Tactical." but we both know you are trying to evade answering the question. Rassmann was not a swift boat officer and hewas not in the band of brothers photo, So try again, This tome answer the question. Why do 21 of the 22 swift boat officers in the picture oppose Kerry?
Tactical Arms
Moderator
"Well looky here! A person with a screen name [depicting the type(s) of firearms that John "Frenchie" Kerry has sought to ban with every single RKBA VOTE HE HAS EVER CAST!!!] can cut and paste. Bravo Zulu to you sir! Bravo Zulu indeed!!!"
"Secondly, I don’t think we ought to be selling guns to people who shouldn’t have them. That’s why I support instant background checks at gun shows. There’s a lot of talk about trigger locks being on guns sold in the future, I support that, and so we’re distributing them in our state of Texas for free. I think we ought to raise the age at which a juvenile can carry a handgun from 18 to 21."
George W. Bush
Source: Presidential Debate at Wake Forest University Oct 11, 2000
---------------------
“It makes no sense for assault weapons to be around our society.”
George W. Bush, 2000
---------------------
"Bush has said he would sign a law requiring trigger locks with handgun sales but wouldn’t push such legislation. Bush has endorsed outlawing the import of certain high-capacity ammunition clips. Bush also would raise the legal age for handgun purchases from 18 to 21."
Source: Judy Holland, Hearst Newspapers Apr 14, 2000
---------------------
"Bush will establish “Project Sentry” to enforce federal juvenile gun laws; and impose a lifetime ban on gun possession for juvenile offenders."
Source: Press Release, Temple TX Apr 20, 2000
----------------------
"Bush said he supported efforts in the Republican-led Congress to raise the legal age for purchase of a handgun to 21 from 18 and to ban large ammunition clips."
Source: Reuters, “Bush favors raising.” Aug 27, 1999
----------------------
"Bush opposed repeal of the 1994 assault weapon ban and indicated his openness to Clinton’s call to raise the age of legal handgun ownership from 18 to 21."
Source: L.A. Times May 1, 1999
----------------------
"In a speech to the Association of Health Care Journalists, Gore said, “Bush has convinced the NRA that he wants to take the gun lobbyists out of the lobby & put them right into the Oval Office.” Gore’s point was that gun violence was straining the health care system, to the tune of $2.3 billion annually, and that Bush was so deeply in the pocket of the gun lobby that he could not recognize this problem.
Bush dismissed those accusations. "I make my positions on what I think is right. I’ll make the decisions as to what goes on in the White House,“ he said. Repeating an accusation he has made before, Bush said: ”I’ve never been a member of the NRA. Gore has been, if I’m not mistaken.""
Source: Katharine Q. Seelye, New York Times, p. A20 May 5, 2000
"Secondly, I don’t think we ought to be selling guns to people who shouldn’t have them. That’s why I support instant background checks at gun shows. There’s a lot of talk about trigger locks being on guns sold in the future, I support that, and so we’re distributing them in our state of Texas for free. I think we ought to raise the age at which a juvenile can carry a handgun from 18 to 21."
George W. Bush
Source: Presidential Debate at Wake Forest University Oct 11, 2000
---------------------
“It makes no sense for assault weapons to be around our society.”
George W. Bush, 2000
---------------------
"Bush has said he would sign a law requiring trigger locks with handgun sales but wouldn’t push such legislation. Bush has endorsed outlawing the import of certain high-capacity ammunition clips. Bush also would raise the legal age for handgun purchases from 18 to 21."
Source: Judy Holland, Hearst Newspapers Apr 14, 2000
---------------------
"Bush will establish “Project Sentry” to enforce federal juvenile gun laws; and impose a lifetime ban on gun possession for juvenile offenders."
Source: Press Release, Temple TX Apr 20, 2000
----------------------
"Bush said he supported efforts in the Republican-led Congress to raise the legal age for purchase of a handgun to 21 from 18 and to ban large ammunition clips."
Source: Reuters, “Bush favors raising.” Aug 27, 1999
----------------------
"Bush opposed repeal of the 1994 assault weapon ban and indicated his openness to Clinton’s call to raise the age of legal handgun ownership from 18 to 21."
Source: L.A. Times May 1, 1999
----------------------
"In a speech to the Association of Health Care Journalists, Gore said, “Bush has convinced the NRA that he wants to take the gun lobbyists out of the lobby & put them right into the Oval Office.” Gore’s point was that gun violence was straining the health care system, to the tune of $2.3 billion annually, and that Bush was so deeply in the pocket of the gun lobby that he could not recognize this problem.
Bush dismissed those accusations. "I make my positions on what I think is right. I’ll make the decisions as to what goes on in the White House,“ he said. Repeating an accusation he has made before, Bush said: ”I’ve never been a member of the NRA. Gore has been, if I’m not mistaken.""
Source: Katharine Q. Seelye, New York Times, p. A20 May 5, 2000
Fred Hansen
New member
And which votes (that have actually occured, not the ones in your fantasy life) does any of that refer to? I can document all of "Frenchie's" votes. How 'bout you?
Tactical Arms
Moderator
"Kerry and bush are two politicians trying to win the battle for another piece of the pie. What we need to worry about is which one supports us and our beliefs, " The Second Amendment"."
The correct answer is NEITHER.
The correct answer is NEITHER.
FirstFreedom
Moderator
Quite true! But certainly Shrub is the lesser of two evils on protecting gun freedoms. And, knowing Kerry is a military fraud who baled out on his sailors after 4 months is yet another reason not to vote for him, even though I honestly pretty well despise shrub as well. As I said before, if there's ANY third party candidate on the ballot, I will vote for same; if not, hold nose, take some pepto, and vote shrub.