Kahr vs. Kel-Tec

mini14jac,

Kel-Tec's position seems to be "don't talk to us about jams, etc., until the gun is broken in after firing at least 100 rounds." I don't agree with that because it should be delivered new without a tendency to jam since I'm sure a lot of buyers also buy a minimal amount of ammo, take the gun home, load it, and put it in their dresser or night stand.
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I agree with you.
I recently read of a shop owner who was shot and paralyzed with his own gun.
He had bought a rifle and a pistol, loaded both, and never shot them.
I wonder how many people do this?

About how many rounds have been fired through each of the "88% failure rate" Kel-Tecs?
More specifically, what have the failure rates been after each pistol has fired at least 100 rounds?
As a matter of curiosity, were each of the guns thoroughly cleaned and lubricated before ever being fired?
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Each gun was cleaned and lubed, then 200-300 rounds fired.
(With the 4 P32s that failed, this was not possible because of trigger failures. They had to be repaired first. 2 failure-to-reset, 1 light strike, 1 complete linkage failure. All guns purchased over a 16 month period, about two years ago.)

With my jamming P11s, after the break-in period, I then did the fluff and buff. With both, I still had the jamming problem.
This was mainly a failure-to-feed problem.
The KelTec gunsmith suggested that I not use Winchester white box, or Wolf ammo.
(As I said before, my Glock and Kahr eat the "cheap stuff" all day long.)
So I sold both guns! :(
 
mini14jac,
The KelTec gunsmith suggested that I not use Winchester white box, or Wolf ammo.
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Do you remember the name of that KT gunsmith? Sounds to me that somebody needs to receive some remedial training or get a new job!
 
At the time, I think the two 'smiths were Cliff and Marty.
One was supposed to be the P11 guru, while the other was the P32 dude.
(One of the gunsmiths has since left KelTec, not sure which one.)

It was the P11 "expert" that told me this after my gun had been sent in twice for feed failures.
He said that if I would stick to Hydra Shoks, or Silvertips, they should feed fine.
If I'm not mistaken, he was right about that part.
:confused:

Anyway, I probably shoot way too often, so doing all my shooting with premium ammo was out of the question, for me.

If all I'm hearing about improved quality control with new KelTecs is true, it may be time for me to take the plunge again.
As the above posts show, you can see why I'm a little jaded when it comes to KelTec.
I have the reputation among fellow shooters of being able to break any gun. :eek:
(Or maybe being bad luck to any gun.)

So far I've been lucky with Glock, Bushmaster, Kahr, and a few others.
I would list the many guns that I have had problems with, but I think there is a 5000 word limit per post.
:D
 
I used to spend alot of time in car part stores. I saw a sign in one once and I have never forgotten it. It said "BUY THE BEST AND CRY ONLY ONCE". Meaning you may cry over the initial out-lay but not subsequently when the thing proves to be garbage. You have the same choice here IMO.

Get the Kahr. They are top drawer. They cost but you will be satisfied.
 
Just one more person who wouldn't put the P11 and the K9 in the same class. The K9 is a VERY good gun. The P11 is a workable gun. Big difference...
 
My P11 was one of those "Lemons..."

I considered my P11 a lemon. It was the equal-opportunity jammer. It jammed on just about everything and on some ammo I had to pull the trigger THREE times for light strikes.

However, Kel-Tec's warranty performance was excellent and at one point, they replaced my entire gun sans the grip.

Yet......Yet......If I only had $250 to spend on a 9mm semi-auto, I'd probably give the P11 another chance. My P32 is absolutely box-stock and it is 100% reliable.

I think half of Kel-Tec's problems are not with George Kelgren's designs but the actual fit/finish and the quality of the components. I firmly believe that if Kel-Tec jacked the price a few bucks and upgraded their quality control, they would have a gun that people would beat down the door to buy.

Oh well......
 
I think they did just that. My P11 has a high (113XXX) serial number and it feeds and functions perfectly. I am in the 450-500 round range (mixture of Winchester white-box, Federal Hydro-shock +P+ and beat up Winchester silvertips (old duty ammo) without any failures of any kind. When I first purchased it I headed down to the basement to give it a fluff and buff, but once I stripped it the quality became obvious and no F&B was needed. In fact it looked as if it was F&B'd at the factory before going out (and yes it was NIB wrapped in wax paper).

mlk18
 
MLK18: thanks for sharing that....

It has been a goodly while since I actually picked up a new P11 in a gun store, field-stripped it and gave it a good inspection. I'm going to do just that the next time I have the opportunity. My own P11 was an early one by present standards so now I'm curious as to how KelTec has upgraded their product.

If it is as you say it is, the P11 deserves a second chance.
 
Just to throw in my two cents, my thinking is that if you can afford the extra money, go with the Kahr.

I own an MK9, and have never shot a P11, but handled one in my local gun shop the other day, when they got one in as a special order for a customer. Comparison of look, feel, fit and finish? Not even close. Kahr by a light year. And, my MK9 has been absolutely reliable right out of the box, no 'fluff and buff' stuff required.

That said, I might consider a P32 as a BUG, but if the SHTF, in a scenario where you don't get a second chance, I'm pulling the Kahr.
 
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