Just saw "The Patriot"
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George Hill
Staff Alumnus
While not seeing the movie yet...
Its reminding me of the old Disney movie The Swamp Fox.
Its reminding me of the old Disney movie The Swamp Fox.
TAZ,
I suspect you are right; the vast majority of people who see this film will find no parallel between the story and our current political situation. At best it should be a catalist for discussion. At worst it will be "chewing gum for the eyes". Nevertheless, I enjoyed it, and plan to see it again this weekend.
For what its worth, I make a living dealing in southern antiques and antique firearms, and I found myself drooling throughout the movie at the props and sets. (I had the same reaction to LAST OF THE MOHICANS.) I find the colonial/revolutionary period of American history endlessly fascinating.
I suspect you are right; the vast majority of people who see this film will find no parallel between the story and our current political situation. At best it should be a catalist for discussion. At worst it will be "chewing gum for the eyes". Nevertheless, I enjoyed it, and plan to see it again this weekend.
For what its worth, I make a living dealing in southern antiques and antique firearms, and I found myself drooling throughout the movie at the props and sets. (I had the same reaction to LAST OF THE MOHICANS.) I find the colonial/revolutionary period of American history endlessly fascinating.
Daniel Watters
New member
According to historical accounts, both Colonel Banastre Tarleton and Major Patrick Ferguson were accused of acts of brutality against surrendered troops and civilian populations in South Carolina. In one of the more infamous incidents, on May 29, 1780, Tarleton's Legion had overtaken nearly four hundred Continentals near Waxhaws, South Carolina. (The Third Virginia Continentals had been sent to reinforce Charleston, but had turned back towards North Carlonia after learning of the city's fall to Sir Henry Clinton's troops.) The Virginians' commander, Colonel Abraham Buford, had sought to surrender, but no quarter was given. Over a hundred of the Continentals were killed outright, many more were wounded and left for dead, and only fifty-three survivors were taken prisoner. Several of the Continentals escaped the melee, and word quickly spread of "Tarleton's Quarter".
Hube,
My point about preferring Gladiator was PRECISELY that it was not attempting a stab at depicting history, in just the same way that Ben Hur was plainly fiction, I actually like chewing gum for the eyes, its just that The Patriot appears to try scoring points in both camps and also paints the British as the only ones who committed evil acts, do people seriously think that this was the only war in history where only one side committed acts of brutality. Saving Private Ryan didn't deliberately encourage hatred of the Germans and even showed US troops murdering unarmed, surrendering German soldiers and laughing about it. Braveheart, and now The Patriot is entirely one sided, apart from being good entertainment, a vehicle for stirring up hatred against one particular nation, namely Britain. If you don't believe me, delve into the archives from about 1-2 weeks back and take a look at the thread generated in this forum on the subject of the British media supposedly being offended about The Patriot, I recall the Moderator's closing comment as being particularly indicative. Try making a movie about how early explorers on the African continent were good and decent people who encountered wild black savages that were violent and evil and see if people would be giving each other high fives coming out of the cinema. Ten years from now movies will be being made about avenging IRA super-heroes who never blew up a crowded street (Harrod's, Omagh, Warrington) or shot babies whilst they were in their father's arms (RAF technician seated in vehicle- Germany), but will focus on the alleged shoot to kill policy of the British army, or the Bloody Sunday shootings. Remember, you read it here first.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, our movie industry has a Brit fixation and it's wearing real thin.
Mike H
My point about preferring Gladiator was PRECISELY that it was not attempting a stab at depicting history, in just the same way that Ben Hur was plainly fiction, I actually like chewing gum for the eyes, its just that The Patriot appears to try scoring points in both camps and also paints the British as the only ones who committed evil acts, do people seriously think that this was the only war in history where only one side committed acts of brutality. Saving Private Ryan didn't deliberately encourage hatred of the Germans and even showed US troops murdering unarmed, surrendering German soldiers and laughing about it. Braveheart, and now The Patriot is entirely one sided, apart from being good entertainment, a vehicle for stirring up hatred against one particular nation, namely Britain. If you don't believe me, delve into the archives from about 1-2 weeks back and take a look at the thread generated in this forum on the subject of the British media supposedly being offended about The Patriot, I recall the Moderator's closing comment as being particularly indicative. Try making a movie about how early explorers on the African continent were good and decent people who encountered wild black savages that were violent and evil and see if people would be giving each other high fives coming out of the cinema. Ten years from now movies will be being made about avenging IRA super-heroes who never blew up a crowded street (Harrod's, Omagh, Warrington) or shot babies whilst they were in their father's arms (RAF technician seated in vehicle- Germany), but will focus on the alleged shoot to kill policy of the British army, or the Bloody Sunday shootings. Remember, you read it here first.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, our movie industry has a Brit fixation and it's wearing real thin.
Mike H
Mike, I was a History major in college, so I am not getting my facts from the movies...but the facts are, the English COULD be pretty nasty, particularly out in the colonies. LOTS of nations got nasty out in the colonies, far away from home and the judging eyes of their friends, family and government.
I think you're doing the Patriot a disservice.
I think you're doing the Patriot a disservice.
Favorite line (and I'll probably misquote) was by the preacher:
"The shepard has to tend his flock, but sometimes he's also got to fight off the wolves."
------------------
"...and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
Luke 22:36
"An armed society is a polite society."
Robert Heinlein
"Power corrupts. Absolute power - is kinda cool!"
Fred Reed
"The shepard has to tend his flock, but sometimes he's also got to fight off the wolves."
------------------
"...and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
Luke 22:36
"An armed society is a polite society."
Robert Heinlein
"Power corrupts. Absolute power - is kinda cool!"
Fred Reed
Rik,
Couldn't agree more, powers ruling satellite countries or minority enclaves are almost invariably ruthless, take the Iraqis and the Kurds, or the Turks and the Kurds for that matter, or us and Vietnam (the My Lai massacre) or the treatment of the native american indian tribes who didn't seem to benefit much from Lincoln's big speeches or from those presidents who followed him. My observations were not intended to absolve the British of blame for they were surely a pretty nasty bunch who no doubt did burn their share of churches filled with Quakers, but rather to point out the modern day pitfalls of stereotyping an entire people as being arrogant and vicious, the cerebrally challenged are easily convinced of most anything, a fact I am reminded of every time I listen to a government speech.
I doubt most people will give much thought to Patriot beyond the ritualised and pretty routine a** kicking, its just that I did, you see I was a Psych Major
Mike H
Couldn't agree more, powers ruling satellite countries or minority enclaves are almost invariably ruthless, take the Iraqis and the Kurds, or the Turks and the Kurds for that matter, or us and Vietnam (the My Lai massacre) or the treatment of the native american indian tribes who didn't seem to benefit much from Lincoln's big speeches or from those presidents who followed him. My observations were not intended to absolve the British of blame for they were surely a pretty nasty bunch who no doubt did burn their share of churches filled with Quakers, but rather to point out the modern day pitfalls of stereotyping an entire people as being arrogant and vicious, the cerebrally challenged are easily convinced of most anything, a fact I am reminded of every time I listen to a government speech.
I doubt most people will give much thought to Patriot beyond the ritualised and pretty routine a** kicking, its just that I did, you see I was a Psych Major
Mike H
To all (especially Mike H),
I consider myself reasonably well educated on the circumstances and events of the War for Indpendence and found "The Patriot" engaging, well-acted, historically founded, and a inspiring film.
While not a "expert" in the history of the period (Ph.D. in American Political History, M.Ed. History (specializing in military tactics and ethics) I do feel that I have a grasp of the period, and the characterizations - subject to license by the writers - of real persons portrayed in "The Patriot" are accurate.
Mike, I always have considered myself somewhat of an anglophile, but I am not so infatuated - nor foolish - to believe that the British Empire was the benevolent autocracy that you seem to feel was slighted by the characters in the movie. If the British were as kind-spirited as you imply, I fancy that there would not have been a Revolution, thus "The Patriot" would have been a true flight of the imagination. However, the British were not possessed of the spirit of noble service to the colonies, seeking only to plunder, expand the tax and economic services base of the Crown, and to - without "quarter" - insure that any sense of independence was quashed as quickly and ruthlessly as possible.
To deny the known facts in this discussion is the act of a provacateur or a fool.
I consider myself reasonably well educated on the circumstances and events of the War for Indpendence and found "The Patriot" engaging, well-acted, historically founded, and a inspiring film.
While not a "expert" in the history of the period (Ph.D. in American Political History, M.Ed. History (specializing in military tactics and ethics) I do feel that I have a grasp of the period, and the characterizations - subject to license by the writers - of real persons portrayed in "The Patriot" are accurate.
Mike, I always have considered myself somewhat of an anglophile, but I am not so infatuated - nor foolish - to believe that the British Empire was the benevolent autocracy that you seem to feel was slighted by the characters in the movie. If the British were as kind-spirited as you imply, I fancy that there would not have been a Revolution, thus "The Patriot" would have been a true flight of the imagination. However, the British were not possessed of the spirit of noble service to the colonies, seeking only to plunder, expand the tax and economic services base of the Crown, and to - without "quarter" - insure that any sense of independence was quashed as quickly and ruthlessly as possible.
To deny the known facts in this discussion is the act of a provacateur or a fool.
I need someone to explain what this tradition of "bundling" is.
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John/az
"When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!
www.cphv.com
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John/az
"When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!
www.cphv.com
Bundling: The scene where Gabrial is bundled up I assume? This is to prevent the boy from touching the girl while left alone - hence the line from the girls mother "I'm a better seamstress than my mother was".
I just saw this movie and was very impressed. It's rare that a movie actually lives up to the hype for me, and this one did. Sure the movie has faults - all stories do, Hell, so does life.
The part with the girl speaking in the church broght tears to my eyes, and the scenes with Benjamin fighting for his family etc. were awesome.
My wife (a rabid anti) actually enjoyed the movie. Who knows. Maybe it will help her "get it".
-LevelHead-
I just saw this movie and was very impressed. It's rare that a movie actually lives up to the hype for me, and this one did. Sure the movie has faults - all stories do, Hell, so does life.
The part with the girl speaking in the church broght tears to my eyes, and the scenes with Benjamin fighting for his family etc. were awesome.
My wife (a rabid anti) actually enjoyed the movie. Who knows. Maybe it will help her "get it".
-LevelHead-
LH,
Thanks for the explaination! I was not sure if it was a honeymoon tradition, so it confused me when there was no marriage ceremony prior to the bundling.
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John/az
"When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!
www.cphv.com
Thanks for the explaination! I was not sure if it was a honeymoon tradition, so it confused me when there was no marriage ceremony prior to the bundling.
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John/az
"When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!
www.cphv.com
1) “The Patriot appears to try scoring points in both camps and also paints
the British as the only ones who committed evil acts, do people seriously
think that this was the only war in history where only one side committed
acts of brutality.”
Absolutely false! The Patriot showed one British officer responsible
for evil acts. Note that he was rebuked severely by General Cornwallis.
Only later in the film did Cornwallis somewhat relent and even then it was
clear that Cornwallis despised the British “bad guy” and his ungentlemanly
conduct.
Further, Mel Gibson’s character related a horrible act by the French (in the
earlier “French and Indian War”) and the Colonialists’ horrible act of
retribution.
Therefore the Brits are not singled out at all. The film related the overall
horrors of war.
2) “I've said it before and I'll say it again, our movie industry has a Brit
fixation and it's wearing real thin.”
Say it as many times as you like. Unlike many other countries, our First
Amendment ensures you have the Right to repeat even inaccurate
accusations. ‘The Patriot” in no manner supports the accusation of any
unfair “Brit fixation”. Every nation involved in the movie had skeletons in
their closet.
(BTW, go see a James Bond film. Note that all Americans are portrayed as
bumbling idiots compare to the British.)
3) “I doubt most people will give much thought to Patriot beyond the
ritualised and pretty routine a** kicking, its just that I did, you see I was
a Psych Major.”
I considered “The Patriot” to be a pretty fair movie with an incredible
message. The Patriot (to me) showed the tyranny and terror that a
government, any government can inflict upon innocent people.
Representatives of all three governments (as I noted above) were guilty of
atrocities.
Furthermore, many of the atrocities perpetrated by the British in this film
are addressed very clearly in our Declaration of Independence and in our
Bill of Rights. Yet such acts are perpetrated these days by rogue elements
of our American government.
Hopefully, The Patriot may be interpreted by our government as a warning
that we are not subjects, never have been, and never shall be. We are
citizens of great patience but there are limits to our patience - limits which
loom ever nearer.
Parts of this movie brought me nearly to tears - tears of shame and
embarrassment at our weakness and unwillingness to preserve the
blessings of liberty won for us by our Founding Fathers and preserved by
those who fought to keep these rights for our benefit - Rights which we so
willingly, even eagerly, throw away today in the name of “compromise”.
Finally, that only a Psych Major would be able to think about the film’s
message is just a bit over the top. If you wish to consider the debits you
must also consider the credits to keep the books in balance. You see, I
was an accounting major.
------------------
Either you believe in the Second Amendment or you don't.
Stick it to 'em! RKBA!
the British as the only ones who committed evil acts, do people seriously
think that this was the only war in history where only one side committed
acts of brutality.”
Absolutely false! The Patriot showed one British officer responsible
for evil acts. Note that he was rebuked severely by General Cornwallis.
Only later in the film did Cornwallis somewhat relent and even then it was
clear that Cornwallis despised the British “bad guy” and his ungentlemanly
conduct.
Further, Mel Gibson’s character related a horrible act by the French (in the
earlier “French and Indian War”) and the Colonialists’ horrible act of
retribution.
Therefore the Brits are not singled out at all. The film related the overall
horrors of war.
2) “I've said it before and I'll say it again, our movie industry has a Brit
fixation and it's wearing real thin.”
Say it as many times as you like. Unlike many other countries, our First
Amendment ensures you have the Right to repeat even inaccurate
accusations. ‘The Patriot” in no manner supports the accusation of any
unfair “Brit fixation”. Every nation involved in the movie had skeletons in
their closet.
(BTW, go see a James Bond film. Note that all Americans are portrayed as
bumbling idiots compare to the British.)
3) “I doubt most people will give much thought to Patriot beyond the
ritualised and pretty routine a** kicking, its just that I did, you see I was
a Psych Major.”
I considered “The Patriot” to be a pretty fair movie with an incredible
message. The Patriot (to me) showed the tyranny and terror that a
government, any government can inflict upon innocent people.
Representatives of all three governments (as I noted above) were guilty of
atrocities.
Furthermore, many of the atrocities perpetrated by the British in this film
are addressed very clearly in our Declaration of Independence and in our
Bill of Rights. Yet such acts are perpetrated these days by rogue elements
of our American government.
Hopefully, The Patriot may be interpreted by our government as a warning
that we are not subjects, never have been, and never shall be. We are
citizens of great patience but there are limits to our patience - limits which
loom ever nearer.
Parts of this movie brought me nearly to tears - tears of shame and
embarrassment at our weakness and unwillingness to preserve the
blessings of liberty won for us by our Founding Fathers and preserved by
those who fought to keep these rights for our benefit - Rights which we so
willingly, even eagerly, throw away today in the name of “compromise”.
Finally, that only a Psych Major would be able to think about the film’s
message is just a bit over the top. If you wish to consider the debits you
must also consider the credits to keep the books in balance. You see, I
was an accounting major.
------------------
Either you believe in the Second Amendment or you don't.
Stick it to 'em! RKBA!
Johnny Got His Gun.1
New member
The wife and I saw it last night.
Hard not to cry--almost lost it when the little girl finally spoke to her father.
Enjoyed the scene where Benjamin rushes into the burning house, gets his gear, grabs the two boys, and commences to pouring ye olde whoop ass on that detachment of British regulars.
"Aim small, miss small."
Entertaining, informative, and appropriate.
Hard not to cry--almost lost it when the little girl finally spoke to her father.
Enjoyed the scene where Benjamin rushes into the burning house, gets his gear, grabs the two boys, and commences to pouring ye olde whoop ass on that detachment of British regulars.
"Aim small, miss small."
Entertaining, informative, and appropriate.
I saw it today- GREAT movie! It is about time someone tackled the subject. When is the last time a good Revolutionary War movie was released?
In the previews I saw a trailer for "Pearl Harbor," due out next year. I cannot wait. (Though somewone will come out stating that the movie seeks to paint the Japanese in a negative light...)
In the previews I saw a trailer for "Pearl Harbor," due out next year. I cannot wait. (Though somewone will come out stating that the movie seeks to paint the Japanese in a negative light...)
Pearl Harbor. That is new to me. I look forward to it. As an aside, Bull Halsey while steaming into Pearl Harbor after the raid said, "When this war is over, the Japanese language will only be spoken in hell!"
That is the kind of flag officer while not being politically correct is the one who wins wars.
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"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats." H.L. Mencken
That is the kind of flag officer while not being politically correct is the one who wins wars.
------------------
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats." H.L. Mencken
The part that brought a tear to my eye last night was when Gabriel first shows up at the church and asks the people to enlist in the militia, then his love interest gal makes that very moving speech, to the effect "It's time to act on what you say are your principles, and upon what you feel so strongly about." It's a message very timely today and always.
Oh, and I loved his prayer right before the ambush. I think it was "Lord, help me shoot accurate and fast."
Also saw the Pearl Harbor preview, which it said is set for release Memorial Day 2001. Geez O.P., they are promoting movies WAY before the release these days. That's almost a YEAR from now. Looks to be very cool, though.
[This message has been edited by Futo Inu (edited July 03, 2000).]
Oh, and I loved his prayer right before the ambush. I think it was "Lord, help me shoot accurate and fast."
Also saw the Pearl Harbor preview, which it said is set for release Memorial Day 2001. Geez O.P., they are promoting movies WAY before the release these days. That's almost a YEAR from now. Looks to be very cool, though.
[This message has been edited by Futo Inu (edited July 03, 2000).]
Who can provide some insight into the actual factual basis for this movie? Good movie.
Note that the main role was played by an Aussie and the film was made by a Japanese firm. Hollywood has a tough time making this sort of movie. Of course, if it makes money they will happily cast other kids handling evil guns.
Note that the main role was played by an Aussie and the film was made by a Japanese firm. Hollywood has a tough time making this sort of movie. Of course, if it makes money they will happily cast other kids handling evil guns.
Paul Revere
New member
Bring your Kleenex. If you are passionate about your patriotism, you'll certainly need them.
There were many messages made throughout the movie, but I think the biggest one was actually hidden. In other words, you drew a conclusion based upon what you witnessed. And that was...that Gun Control is a complete and utter FRAUD!!!
The liberals went into a tizzy over this film for very good reasons. It shines a VERY positive light on "militias", as well as the NECESSITY of owning and using firearms.
I heard gasps for air in the audience when the sons were handed weapons and told to fight. As well as, after the ambush where the young son said he, "was glad that he killed those men", while he was being tucked in for the night.
I was thinking about the thousands of other movie goers watching the mindless crap produced these days, showing in the other theaters, while I sat and watched this remarkably unembellished saga of American freedom fighting. I thought how lucky those of us were sitting and watching "The Patriot", and the impact it would have on those lazy sheeple who were caught off guard by the movie's messages.
For someone who knows what needs to be done to recapture our lost freedom, it is a God sent. For those who don't care, I think they will have left with a new fire burning in what may be left of their individual patriotism.
The most remarkable thing about this movie seemed to be its total lack of political correctness. It was almost as though the Hollywood insiders were asleep while this movie was being produced. It certainly says something about the 1st Amendment, and it solidifies the fact that even good movies can still be made and shown to the vast American populace. Let's just pray that those that see "The Patriot" understand its many messages.
Thumbs way up!!! 5 Stars!!!
There were many messages made throughout the movie, but I think the biggest one was actually hidden. In other words, you drew a conclusion based upon what you witnessed. And that was...that Gun Control is a complete and utter FRAUD!!!
The liberals went into a tizzy over this film for very good reasons. It shines a VERY positive light on "militias", as well as the NECESSITY of owning and using firearms.
I heard gasps for air in the audience when the sons were handed weapons and told to fight. As well as, after the ambush where the young son said he, "was glad that he killed those men", while he was being tucked in for the night.
I was thinking about the thousands of other movie goers watching the mindless crap produced these days, showing in the other theaters, while I sat and watched this remarkably unembellished saga of American freedom fighting. I thought how lucky those of us were sitting and watching "The Patriot", and the impact it would have on those lazy sheeple who were caught off guard by the movie's messages.
For someone who knows what needs to be done to recapture our lost freedom, it is a God sent. For those who don't care, I think they will have left with a new fire burning in what may be left of their individual patriotism.
The most remarkable thing about this movie seemed to be its total lack of political correctness. It was almost as though the Hollywood insiders were asleep while this movie was being produced. It certainly says something about the 1st Amendment, and it solidifies the fact that even good movies can still be made and shown to the vast American populace. Let's just pray that those that see "The Patriot" understand its many messages.
Thumbs way up!!! 5 Stars!!!
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