Just one mans thoughts on the "concealed" idea...

This post has exposed quite a wide range of opinnions. I geuss we all tend to see things a little differently don"t we?

Personally, I haven't met many BGs since I quit transporting them all over the country about 18 yrs ago. And I must say ...I don't miss any of them one bit.
I have learned in my few years on this earth (46 now) that the Police cannot protect us...period. They can however investigate the situation afterwards. Even the local PD have removed the "protect and serve" from their vehicles. It now simply states that they are "serving the community". I have never met a nervous or jumpy LEO, but I can imagine that they do exist somewhere. I have nothing but the highest regard for all LEOs. I do believe that there are occasions when the LEO is in a position to lose his gun to a desperate BG. But I do not believe the BG will target a LEO just to get his gun just as I do not believe many will target a civilian to wrestle them for it.

As I stated in my original post, I do not carry much at all yet. I do not have the mindset that I live in a dangerous area and do not really feel threatened. At 6 ft 2, 240lbs, most people do not intimidate me. I have not been considering OCing because "I am a macho stud" and need the attention. (as long as my wife thinks I'm a stud...then I am a happy man), I have considered it mainly because it would be more comfortable for me.

I do believe that there may be a time when I feel the need to carry, open or concealed.

I hope I don't fall into the paranoia that everyone is looking at me to get my gun or to get me first if they have bad intentions. I agree that there are times when one does have to make a political statement that we all have a right to carry OC or concealed and the opinions of the backseat drivers and monday morning quarterbacks will have no deterence to what we do. Some of you put your thoughts and arguements in a very firm but polite manner and I thank you for that. Those thoughts have been most helpful in educating me.

Thanks again ....Art
 
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Support_and_Defend
Junior member

Join Date: September 4, 2010
Location: Whidbey Island, WA
Posts: 55

Quote:
Originally Posted by qwik
While i ponder friendly or kook.
Why
Because most the time looks kooky with a deadly weapon. Yea guns in plain view has my attention more . Even police watch em like a hawk just never know whats going on in those heads . Face it -it comes with the turf
 
People have active imaginations and tend to fill in the holes of the unknowns.
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I understand the point about how people imagine a scenario and fill in the holes with their beliefs but that's not wrong. I don't think you believe it's wrong either, because the rest of your reply was interpreting situations and filling in the blanks with your imagination that are based on your beliefs.

Truth is that your situations that you depict do happen, but the scenarios that the other people stipulated also happen. It's shouldn't be an argument of if "if" either scenario happens but "how much".

The gun should be no different than wearing a cell phone, wrist watch or hat. You know the majority of people don't wear hats...
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The problem with this argument is what the product was designed for.

cell phone: communication
hats: shade from sun and fashion
wrist watch: tells time
gun: to kill

Guns were made for killing, nothing else. It just also happens to be fun for collecting and sport shooting. The same thing goes with my Pitbull, he was bred to fight, even though they were bred to fight other dogs and human aggression was never tolerated, even in the fighters. People will always back away from my dog and are surprised that he's nice(biggest wuss dog I've ever had, and that's the way I like it). The differences are in outward appearance and end there, because a gun carried in public is still only meant for killing, whereas a pitbull has been changed to the family pet.

I understand a gun is meant for killing, and that's why I have two but hope to never have to use it for their intended purpose. Some people in the public feel uneasy around a person that is openly showing a tool that was meant for death and that's not hard to understand. For you it might, but you have to look at it through other peoples' view.
 
Growing up people carried, openly or concealed, no one ever gave it too much thought. That was also back when you could have a rifle rack, with rifle, in your pickup at school because you hunted before, or after, school.

A gun is a tool, what you use it for is your business.

If you carry to make a statement, show off, or be noticed, then you're probably carrying for the wrong reason. At least, that's how I was raised.
 
MSC while I wasn't trying to offend you, I was merely saying that I am glad it worked that way, but I still would stand by my statement that your lucky it didn't play out another way.

I don't care if someone on this forum was LEO/Military (no offence to any of you ofcourse) but personally I don't take that as being a firearms/tactics/shooting expert in any way shape or form, some might be, some are clearly not. Specially the ones I get in the store who can't even tell me what their duty gun is or what caliber it is, or my favorite one yet "your actually allowed to sell Glocks, thats the same thing I carry.":rolleyes:

I still prefer to conceal. It doesn't upset people, I am allowed to carry a gun with no one else knowing, I can get in, do what I need to do, and get on my way. I don't stand out, I blend in. I don't wear crazy color concealment over sized shirts, generally a golf polo in summer and a light jacket or sweatshirt in winter. If I was ever in a situation like the one you described the men would of simply started their robbery, would of treated me like everyone else, would be oblivious I had a gun with me. Situational awareness is one thing but lets face it, this isn't a movie, were not a hero, and there are times in the course of a normal day where you will be distracted in what your doing, and might not notice masked men coming in the building behind you.

The stats might say 60% of criminals wouldn't attack an armed person but I wouldn't take the risk of the 40% who would shoot me in the back first. Criminals are not always the smartest bunch. I feel safe/better concealing my firearm.

Plus sadly enough a lot of police officers are not our "friends" when it comes to us in the firearm community. A lot are guilty of feeling they have more of a right to carry a side arm than us, which is not the case, and will hassle people about it. I do not need to justify exercising my right to some lowly soul who thinks he is better than everyone else because he puts on a badge and an issued firearm. I'm sorry to anyone in law enforcement if I sound at all disrespectful I know not all of you fit this bill, but it really sickens me when I read about normal folks being hassled and lectured by police officers when they have done nothing wrong.

I'm sorry, this is a popular video, but this is case in point why I don't consider LEO's any better at dealing with firearms than anyone else.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmRN00KbCr8

Thankfully that "trained" DEA agent only injured his own foot, and not a student.

There are a lot of things wrong with what he did in that video... I don't think it needs to really be explained here as I would hope anyone reading this thread would have the common sense to clear the firearm before handling it in a classroom full of kids, but I guess they don't teach that when training to be a DEA agent.:rolleyes:

If you listen, least the kids have the common sense to tell him to put down the AR-15 he asks for.
 
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MSC 45ACP said:
While I was processing the scene and thinking about my next move, they processed the scene, too. One yelled in the ear of the other "COP!" and pointed at my SERPA-holstered Kimber on my left side.
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You forgot to tell us the brand name and grain weight of the .45 caliber hollowpoints nestled within the magazine of the SERPA-holstered Kimber on your left side.
 
I generally avoid these posts. A lot of strong feelings, and I suspect a lot of them are based on psyche things which I don't understand or want to learn about.

I carry. It is now legal in Texas, CCW, but it wasn't always. I carried. I will continue to carry. That is my right under 2A. Period. Repeal 2A and it is my right as a human, equal to any other.

I don't care to be scary. I carry concealed and I practice. I pocket carry and if I get "concerned", I have my gun in my hand, in my pocket, by the time they get close. If it is a surprise, it takes me a second longer than open carry. But they will "surprise" the open carry more violently than they surprise little pussycat me.

When the time comes for me to be "scary", the only person I care about knowing that I'm scary is the BG. If you have a chance, you know, and they don't.

I've been robbed twice at gunpoint; both times they had a cold drop on me, and I talked them down and gave up my possessions. The first time I was unarmed and gave up my wallet; the second time, I had a .25 in my pocket and gave up a brand new Corvette. In both cases they stepped out of cover, guns drawn, and stole. In either instance, had I been OC, I think I would be dead. I was looking down the barrel when I first realized these guys existed. And no, I don’t carry a .25 any longer.

I read a lot about parking lot encounters, where the guy walks up to you at (it always seems to be) Walmart. Yeah, that happens. I suspect most often it is harmless scroungers and low rent con men, not violent muggers and gun fighting gangsters. Nonetheless, I drop my hand into my pocket, square up, and “not tonight partner”, usually before they start their spiel, and they know. Mom and Dad and all the kids at Walmart don’t need to know. The low rents know.

So, I carry. I have carried, and I will carry. But I don’t need, or want, everyone going about their daily routine to know. I will let the people know who need to know.
 
MSC 45ACP said:
How many of you "size up" the people when you enter a new place? Do you look for exits and entrances? Do you look for cover/concealment when deciding where you are going to sit? Do you even know the difference between 'cover and concealment'? How often do you think about these things in a given day?
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Put me in the "+" column here. My wife makes fun of it, and I quit explaining it long ago. I just say "not here, over there", or "I don't like this place". I suspect 70% of this crowd takes these things into consideration. This is not a "sheep" forum.

But, it's still my business I'm carrying. And I am. You don't even know it.
 
MSC45:
Obviously, this kind of rational, reasonable thought isn't allowed here. [Meaning on this forum].Perhaps most here prefer to wander around with their head in the clouds (Condition white) and don't even notice their surroundings most of the day.

How many of you "size up" the people when you enter a new place? Do you look for exits and entrances? Do you look for cover/concealment when deciding where you are going to sit? Do you even know the difference between 'cover and concealment'? How often do you think about these things in a given day?

Thanks for the warm welcome!
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Yeah sure, welcome to the forum. By the way, if I see you carrying a gun around me, I will be keeping an eye on you.

Related to this: In my experience the folks who call other people "sheeple" are the first to actually begin treating people as if they were "sheeple".

tipoc
 
Neither concealed carry nor open carry are new. Back in the post Civil War years laws against open carry in urban areas began to be passed in various states. First back east and by the 1880s Texas passed a state law banning open carry within major towns. The town laws against open carry in Arizona and Kansas were made famous. It is true that Marshals like Wyatt Earp did ban open carry. These laws sparked a market in the first factory made concealed carry holsters by the way.

This was long before the Brady campaign.

Point is it's been a debated question in society for some time.

I support the right to OC and to CC. It's up to folks to work out the proper place for each.

I live in a state where I can open carry under some circumstances. I can open carry an unloaded weapon many places. I can OC a loaded weapon on private land and in many wilderness areas. So I could carry OC if I chose to.

I've been stopped by police more times in my life than I can remember. A few years back I owned an old Jeep Cherokee, paint was peeling, a neighbor had dented my rear side panel and the front windshield developed a 2" crack in it. I was stopped 4 times in 3 months by cops about that crack. I got a new windshield. I was stopped 2 more times in 4 months.

I live in a state where no police officer in 150 years, till this year, had ever been convicted of shooting a man to death and they shoot over 100 a year(not all die, no figures on that).

I don't oc in urban areas or small towns. It's worth my life not to. It's a tactical decision I made about 40 years ago.

tipoc
 
jeepstrapped

Growing up people carried, openly or concealed, no one ever gave it too much thought. That was also back when you could have a rifle rack, with rifle, in your pickup at school because you hunted before, or after, school.

A gun is a tool, what you use it for is your business.

If you carry to make a statement, show off, or be noticed, then you're probably carrying for the wrong reason. At least, that's how I was raised.
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Yep, what he said !!!
 
I prefer to carry concealed (and do whenever I legally can) for a variety of practical reasons:

[1] I like to wear a jacket or vest because I like having the extra pockets.

[2] I've carried in lousy weather when I'd be wearing a coat or jacket for warmth anyway. And if it's raining, I'd rather that my gun, holster and extra magazines not get rained on.

[3] My being armed is really no one's business but mine. I don't carry to make a political statement. I carry in case I may need to defend myself, as unlikely as that may be.
 
this quote is from "Oboe"

For some of us who have used firearms from childhood, it's not a big deal, and in rural areas, the perception is different from what it would be in heavily urban areas. These days, many people who have never been in the military or lived in a rural area and used firearms have zero knowledge about guns. All they know from movies and the news is that "guns kill". It's just common sense to avoid what they'd perceive as an "in your face" display of "deadly force".
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I agree w/your post quoted above. I grew up in massachusetts under parents who don't believe in guns. The only gun I ever got to see was my uncles during thanksgiving in his wall cabinet(retired ATF). It wasn't until volunteering for the War on Terror+eventually settling down w/my wife in virginia where she grew up after finishing the army that we decided to purchase firearms(we decided to live in the country). If I were still in Mass I would still probably believe what I learned growing up: guns are bad and they kill people
 
Depends on why I'm carrying

If I'm carrying with an eye toward SD vs people, I prefer concealed, even if open carry is allowed, because I feel it gives me a tactical advantage.

If I'm carrying with an eye toward SD vs carnivores, and open carry is allowed, then I go for open carry because it affords faster access to the weapon.

Odds are, if I'm open carrying, I'm carrying a .357 or .44 revolver, and literally loaded for bear (180gr HC .357, 255gr Keith HC .44).

Concealed, could be anything. It's amazing what you can conceal with the right holster, belt, and clothing.
 
As an OC'er (I CC more now that the weather is cooling off), these threads make me :( . On one hand we have some OC'ers that are very clearly doing it for the wrong reasons (there is a strong possibility of some in this thread) and on the other we have people who are against OC vilifying all of their OCing brethren based off this mall-ninja behavior. Then in response, these OC'ing idiots respond by suggesting that CC is an inferior mode of carrying and that very clearly CC'ers are not "down for the struggle" or something.

There are idiots that CC, too, we've all seen them. And they are the same idiots that would OC like an idiot if they found out it was legal. The lack of common sense is not exclusive to the mode in which a person chooses to carry their firearm. I suggest a better course of action would be to calmly attempt to educate those that "idiot carry". I understand that fails quite often, but at least we tried that before separating OC'ers and CC'ers into two warring sects of gun owners. We are all on the same team against morons making us gun owners look like wanna-be Rambos.
 
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