Just one mans thoughts on the "concealed" idea...

An important distiction

My apologies...it is called a License, hadn't examined it since I got it. But it is still not a requirement to hide it.
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Just to clarify: If you are carrying your pistol concealed, i.e., with the clear intent to conceal it from view in accordance with your license, then you are required to keep it hidden. If you accidentally or carelessly allow it to become exposed for others to see, you run the risk of a charge of "brandishing," even though Michigan allows open carry.

In order to fall under the auspices open carry, you must be carrying in such a way that demonstrates a clear intent of having your gun out for all the world to see.

A major advantage the CPL offers to open carriers is that it allows them to get into their cars and drive without taking the gun off their hip and putting it in the trunk. Under Michigan law, a pistol that is accessible in the passenger compartment of a vehicle is considered a concealed weapon.
 
Years ago it was a "carry permit", and was concealed just because it was modern time, you weren't in the wild west riding horses, that time was long past. I have always considered it my right as an American with no criminal record. Never had a permit till a few years ago when your chances of a hefty fine and jail time went up. I have carried off and on for 50 years, never looked over my shoulder then and don't now. I conceal, if it prints so be it, the only open carry to me should be out in the woods hunting, unless your LEO of course. Just my .02
 
After talking with a number of Open Carry advocates, I've come to the conclusion that for some, carrying a weapon is not about self defense at all, it's about politics. They carry their weapons as a publicity stunt.
 
If it's my opinion, as a CCW holder who carries daily, that those who carry openly in order to gain attention have maturity issues, then I wonder what those being "sensitized" by such "in your face" demonstrations might think.
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I am an open carrier, who has been carrying daily for about a month and a half. I don't carry to gain attention nor am I immature (62). I carry for the same reasons you do. The main difference between you and I is I don't fault your method of carry.:cool:

As far as fielding questions or scaring people, I have only had a few people ask questions. They wish to carry as well. I know of no-one who has been scared of my revolver on my hip. I have been to 2 Wal-marts, countless convenience stores and pawnshops, etc. I have even been in a bank. No problems, no sirens. The only place I take it off is the movie theater, because the seats are so narrow I would get stuck.

I like open carry and I feel comfortable in doing so. I carry all day long and have found that I don't even notice the gun anymore.
 
In my state you can only carry concealed...

I'd say most of the time I carry for political reasons. I have no intent to use it at all and can be 99.9% sure I will never need to. The easiest thing to do would be to just not carry... but I do because I can then say to someone I always carry....

even if S.C. had open carry I would carry concealed most of the time...

I spend a good bit of time in N.C. which is an open carry state and I still conceal carry there.

As for the politics of it... I doubt there are too many of us that wear a big Red or Blue shirt saying Repub or Demo / conservative or liberal on it all the time... just sometimes.
 
First of all I want to say I support the right of everyone who's not a threat to society to carry either open or concealed. Period.

Open carry is legal in my state but I choose not to for a couple of reasons. I have no desire to attract attention to myself by wearing an unconcealed firearm. Whether the attention is positive or negative I'd rather not deal with the questions and stares that inevitably comes with open carry. I understand that some people use open carry as a conversation starter and a way of opening up a conversation but if I'm going in a store to pick up a quart of motor oil I really don't want to have a thirty minute conversation about guns, either good or bad.

I'm also not sure that open carry helps us win over any anti-gun people simply because they usually can't look past the fact that you are carrying a gun to see that you're a normal, law-abiding person. Even people who aren't anti-gun can become easily alarmed at the sight of a holstered handgun. We all know that's silly but that is reality. Again I try to do my part to spread a positive message about firearms and their owners but I'm not sure the checkout line at Wal-Mart is the best place to do this.

Lastly I've never felt that concealing a handgun offered a tactical disadvantage to open carry. Whether you believe open carry is a deterrent to crime or that it makes you a target, I think a decent holster and practice drawing from a concealed position negates any perceived advantage to open carry.

Again I want to say I fully support open carry as a fundamental right but it's just not for me.
 
From Nnobby45:
If it's my opinion, as a CCW holder who carries daily, that those who carry openly in order to gain attention have maturity issues, then I wonder what those being "sensitized" by such "in your face" demonstrations might think.
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(Bold/Ital. by me, for emphasis)

I agree almost 100% with that statement. For those who carry openly, because they can and feel a need for it, I have no problem with them. It is the ones who like to draw attention to themselves that I have problems with. (Like the guy who walked up and down the street in Al Gores hometown, intent on provoking some kind of reaction.)

From Lost Sheep:
We do have to recognize the fact that some people are uncomfortable around armed people or even unloaded weapons, properly secured. Pity them if you will, but educate them if you can.
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Dang, That was wonderfully said!

Most Americans now get their gun knowledge from TV. In TV land, bad guys use guns and only the law enforcement types have guns. Since you and I do not "Look" like the law enforcement type, we must be bad guys. Stereotyping is real. (How many people really think Iraq is covered only in desert sands and oil wells? How many believe that every place South of the border is over run with drug violence?)

I think the open carry picnics that are being held in various states has done a wonderful job of helping people understand that not all gun people are crazy. I am pretty sure they have opened more than a few eyes.
 
We do what we legally may do and work toward making it better.

Sometimes, most times, “in your face” doesn’t do it.

One seldom “wins” an argument; with a bit of tact one can “win” a debate.
 
if you were at my counter, and I asked what you carried, and you DREW your weapon, I would have an issue.
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That's what I was thinking when I read the original post. If I saw someone do that in public, I'd be in condition red, and I'd be looking for exits. I don't want to get shot, and whether it's through malice or carelessness is immaterial (echoes of this situation). No offense to the original poster as a person, but I'd have formed a very negative view of him as a gun owner had I been there at the time.

I'm with Pax in that I really don't want to be hassled. I do plenty to support the 2nd Amendment (and much more than many open-carry advocates I've met do), but I want to pick the time and audience when I do so. I don't see the weapon, in and of itself, as having political value.

I'm pleasantly surprised we've made two pages in without seeing the word "sheeple," however.
 
When you openly carry a gun out in public it becomes an issue or a conversation piece all or almost all of the time with everybody. "Hey, their is walt he packs heat". I feel I would find this distracting in my everyday activities. So I carry concealed because I don't like to be a sitting duck victim but not a conversation piece either. Its nobodys business I carry and they don't need to know unless they attack me. While I, like most pro-gun people don't want to see open carry become unlawful I also DON'T want it to become the flag-ship pro-gun cause. The anti's could have a field day recruiting with that. It can work against the pro-gun movement. Conceal carry pro-gun cause's are much more full proof. If I am carrying a gun, I am law-abiding and you don't see the weapon then what is the problem?
 
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As with most things, the best approach is somewhere in the middle. Open carry is usually fine, but be mature and don't walk into the Library Kidde room to show you can excercise this right. Conversely, unwise to hold up the Law as some sort of ultimate deciding factor of your behavior. To do so would make you un-American of sorts because we are a social species and should help, and educate our fellow man. It doesn't have to be 40 hours a week but sometime, somewhere, we each have to help pass along tidbits of what is fast becoming forgotten knowledge. Knowledge is power. We are a free people if only we can comprehend it and do not pattern our behavior out of fear.

That said, I try to do my part. Realistically, this mean sometimes my weapon is concealed and sometimes it's openly carried. I can usually tell who in view may get upset if they spot my gun, so whats the harm in walking around the aisle the other way so no anxiety is felt by them? I have nothing to prove.

But why conceal it from others? They may not know that it is legal to keep and bear arms. I want the police to see the open carry also, having no ccw permit. Sometimes I think that it would be cool to get the CCW license. I'd then be sort of "bonafide" good guy. right? But wait, doesn't my criminal record (or lack thereof!) make me bonafide good guy also? The answer is yes and it's proven time and again when they stop me, run me, send me on my way...
 
How Shocking! - Open Carry!

I can only think of one thing more shocking to an American in a shopping mall than open carry, and that is a woman breast feeding her baby.

My God, close your eyes and call the police!

Here, breast feeding is as common and practical as getting out of the rain.
Perhaps one day in America, the anti-gun nuts will get out of the rain too.
 
Mutatio Nomenis said:
Christ, give me strength to deal with semifuroranimanos.

Most people aren't plain used to guns. In our society, guns are not often a necessity. We have good police forces to defend ourselves and the world's best military to fight off threats. Civilian guns are really there for four reasons:

#1. Sport
#2. Hunt
#3. Compete
#3. Kill
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:barf:

Excuse me, hacked up a hairball there.....

What happens when you take the guns and put them in the hands of the police only? What happens when you return those guns into the hands of the citizen in order to defend themselves?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/2/learning-from-the-dc-handgun-ban/
The year after the Supreme Court struck down the District of Columbia's handgun ban and gun-lock requirements, the capital city's murder rate plummeted 25 percent. The high court should keep that in mind today as it hears oral arguments about a Chicago handgun ban.

Gun controllers screamed to high heaven that impending disaster would follow the court's decision to junk some of the district's gun controls. One of those screaming the loudest was Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley, who incorrectly predicted more gun freedom would lead to more death and Wild West shootouts. Instead, in Washington, murder rates rose when the handgun ban was in effect and fell once the regulations were removed.

Chicago's 1982 ban faired no better. The forthcoming third edition of "More Guns, Less Crime" shows that in the 17 years after a ban on new handguns went into effect, there were only two years when Chicago's murder rate was as low as it was in 1982. The Windy City's murder rate fell relative to America's other 50 largest cities before the ban and rose relative to them afterward. For example, Chicago's murder rate went from equaling the average for those other U.S. cities in 1982 to exceeding their average murder rate by 32 percent in 1992. There is no year after the ban that Chicago's murder rate fared as well relative to other cities as it did in 1982.
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Guns in the hands of the citizens or maybe I should say on the belts of the citizens, reduces violent crime. Cops are there to catch criminals AFTER they have committed their crimes. The gun on the belt of the citizen is there to deter and defend against crime if open carried and to defend against crime if concealed carry. Either method works to significantly reduce the number of crimes successfully committed.

Mr Dish said:
I know alot of you will say you must prevent the "gun grab", or you don't want to be the "first target" of the BG. But at the same time, we have allowed our Government to convince us to hide the fact that almost anyone (providing they pass the regulations) can purchase, collect and carry almost any gun of their choosing. I firmly believe that by hideing all the guns that are already walking around, we are helping all the anti-gun people to sensitize the rest of our Fellow Americans toward the mere sight of a gun or the outline of one under your shirt.

Its no wonder that the police are called when one is spotted at Walmart.
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AMEN!

Lost Sheep said:
We hide our weapons because it is polite and does not excite the hoplophobes among us.
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I open carry because 60% of convicted felons have admitted that they would not attack a target KNOWN to be armed. I care about myself and my family enough to carry a gun in the manner that is most effective for deterring a criminal from every choosing us as a target in the first place. I don't want to put them (or myself for that matter) in the position of shooting a criminal or witnessing a criminal being shot and the associated legal consequences of such. If that is considered impolite, I am sorry you feel that way about me caring for and protecting myself and my family.
 
I just don't like being stared at,,,

So I conceal carry over open carry on the few occasions I have had the option.

And I try not to ever let anyone know I am carrying,,,
Their ignorance is bliss for both of us.

The times we live in now are different from even the 60's,,,
Guns aren't as much a part of daily existence as they were then,,,
People see a gun and they start to panic unless they are sure it's a cop.

Less than a year ago I was in a department store,,,
All of a sudden I hear someone scream "GUN!",,,
I immediately dove behind a counter,,,
Model 36 in hand but held close.

Turned out it was a dimwit clerk who glimpsed a holstered handgun,,,
And in this case it was an off duty cop.

I truly think we are past the days of open carry,,,
I don't know if we can ever regain the necessary attitude.

Our Governor (Oklahoma) just vetoed an open carry bill,,,
I was disappointed in that I would like to see the "brandishing" problem disappear.

But even if it was passed,,,
I would still carry at least semi-concealed.

I did have visions of people walking the streets wearing Hollywood buscadero rigs,,,
Their single-action six shooters on open display for all to see (and fear),,,
This is a situation in every place I have visited who allows open carry.

There are just some people I see carrying who give me pause for concern,,,
And it's all because of my perception of how they dress,,,
It's an irrational bias that nevertheless is real to me,,,
If these people are carrying I'ld rather not know.

A person wearing a "Body Piercing by Beretta" t-shirt doesn't bother me,,,
Unless they happen to be carrying that Beretta on their person,,,
Then I wonder if they wouldn't welcome a chance to shoot.

If I am a 2nd amendment advocate,,,
Imagine how your basic liberal anti-gunner perceives open carry,,,
It scares the living crap out of them and motivates them to be active anti-gunners.

.
 
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Another open carrier here. I do so because of the convenience. My workplace's dress code makes it inconvenient to wear a concealed holster driving to and from work. Sometimes I go to Meijer (A walmart competitor in the Mid-West) on my way home. Thus, open carry. Sometimes it is very hot and humid and open carry is more comfortable. Sometimes I just grab my paddle holster cuz it's quicker. I conceal about as often as I OC.

I do sympathize with the education aspect of it, though, and that is part of why I don't go to lengths to conceal. I've never had a negative encounter (and I live in Ann Arbor, MI) with either a LEO or normal person. Plenty of questions and curiosities though, but never anything negative. I also am dressed business casual when I OC (and wear a retention holster), and am polite to everyone, but I go about my business. It is not an "attention thing".

Those that do open carry for attention I feel are the vast minority of OCers and you will find most OCers criticizing them right along with me and everyone in this thread. I find it akin to swearing at your wife in public. You can do it, but it makes you look like an ignorant @$$hole and ruins it for your fellow man.

I would also like to add that I don't like the tone that a lot of OC'ers take, especially on the interwebz. It is indeed a holier-than-thou tone as if they are somehow more in the fight than the rest of "you guys". It has no benefit to suggest that a person's mode of carry is inferior to yours because you open carry and look at how you are fighting for your rights. It only leads to - oh look - people thinking that OC'ers have maturity issues.
 
One of the reasons people carry guns is concern about getting mugged.

If a mugger knows you are armed you become a target that is carry a very expensive object that is easily converted into cash or traded for drugs.

While carrying concealed might not keep you from being targeted by the average mugger, it does mean people who might be tempted by the possibility of a $500 payday won't get the idea that you are it.
 
Honestly in my opinion open carry just has no positive points. Like most have said and you can use the OP for an example they usually do it for political reasons, while probably sitting home instead of voting for the people who are going to run this country.

Most of the time they want the attention, they think it makes them more macho, really it is just making you vulnerable. I bet most people that open carry like Pax said have no formal training in a retention grab and can probably be easily stripped of their firearm before they even know whats happening.

There are professional pick pockets that can take things from your pocket with out know, now think of how easy it would be to take something off of you in plain sight.... now think of the fact they wont care if you notice them taking it because probably by the time your turning around wondering whats going on you will be pleasantly surprised by your very own firearm pointing back in your face.:rolleyes:
 
Either method works to significantly reduce the number of crimes successfully committed.
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We don't know that. It makes perfect sense that civilian carry would reduce violent crime, but we have no statistical proof. We can infer it from the numbers in some places, but there's no direct black-and-white correlation.

Especially when debating with the other side, we must be very careful to stick with provable, verifiable claims.
 
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