Just one mans thoughts on the "concealed" idea...

M

Mr Dish

New member
I know so many of you think that you must hide the fact that you are walking around exersizing your right to protect yourself, but....

Have you ever stopped to think as to why we need to hide that fact? There was a time, not so long ago, when you knew who was armed and what with. If you had a "hideaway" then that made you a coward and a sneaky cheat. How did we go from the out in the open knowledge to the hideaway gun?

I know alot of you will say you must prevent the "gun grab", or you don't want to be the "first target" of the BG. But at the same time, we have allowed our Government to convince us to hide the fact that almost anyone (providing they pass the regulations) can purchase, collect and carry almost any gun of their choosing. I firmly believe that by hideing all the guns that are already walking around, we are helping all the anti-gun people to sensitize the rest of our Fellow Americans toward the mere sight of a gun or the outline of one under your shirt.

Its no wonder that the police are called when one is spotted at Walmart. I was at a newly remoldeled MC Sports store about a week ago checking out the small selection of handguns they had. I did inform the Manager/Salesman that I was a permit holder, I even pulled out my Taurus when he asked to see what I carried. The experienced Manager of the gun counter acted as natural as could be but his assistant (college kid being trained) did freak out alittle. He said he didn't know we could walk around with a gun like that. 2 other Customers stepped up to inform him that they too had permits to carry, lifting their shirts with a big grin to see his reaction. This type of scenerio never happens at Jays Sporting Goods alittle further north of me. Almost every Salesperson in there is carrying, and pulling your carry gun to have them assist you with a new holster selection or to compare it to another you are looking at is quite normal.

I geuss the thought I am trying to put together is that if we all carried without the "fear" of someone spotting it, the general public wouldn't be so freaked out when they saw it. Then maybe they would be so accustomed to the amout of guns walking around and could mentally compare that with the fact that there would be very little if any violent crime around us. Then when the anit-gun folks start screaming...the rest of America could tell the shut the heck up and leave us alone.

For the record...we have the right to OC here in Michigan. I rarely carry at all, I got my permit just because I could and to make future purchases easier.
<The thought of OC has appealed to me simply to annoy all of you who believe that we must hide our guns>

All this typing must be worth at lease a nickle...
 
Here in Michigan...its a Concealed Carry Permit. Permit means permission to carry concealed, not required to do so. I geuss a question might be..why have we been forced to have to hide it? Or why do so many of us believe that we must hide it?
 
My apologies...it is called a License, hadn't examined it since I got it. But it is still not a requirement to hide it.
 
I firmly believe that by hideing all the guns that are already walking around, we are helping all the anti-gun people to sensitize the rest of our Fellow Americans toward the mere sight of a gun or the outline of one under your shirt.
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If it's my opinion, as a CCW holder who carries daily, that those who carry openly in order to gain attention have maturity issues, then I wonder what those being "sensitized" by such "in your face" demonstrations might think.

The above statement isn't an indictment of those who engage in peaceful open carry demonstrations, say in their local coffee house, in opposition to the anti-gun media, anti-gun hysteria, or leftist gas bag politicians.:cool:


Just my thoughts on the matter.
 
I couldn't agree with you more.

Open carry is perfectly legal here in Arizona, and concealed carry without a permit is legal now as well.

There are times I conceal, and times I open carry. I don't much care either way, except when in areas I see as "sensitive". Banks, Wally-World and such are more likely to provide stares than many other places. I'm not out to cause a scene, but I do like to be comfortable.

I think the trend towards "mandatory" CCW started with the widespread acceptance of "shall-issue". CCW was new, and folks who got the permit liked the option of concealed carry.

I did, and I carried concealed for a few years. This was after open carrying for over 10 years prior to that.

Eventually, I figured out that forcing myself to conceal my carry gun limited my optionx in clothing, and the firearms I could comfortably carry. Short term CCW was no big deal, but long term created discomfort, and became a major issue to deal with on an all-day, every-day basis.

After a few years, I went back to mostly open carry. I like the increased options, and I can conceal very easily for shorter time periods without issue when in an area where I think it's a better option.

Daryl
 
Hey, suit yourself.

Me, I want to run my errands in a timely fashion, without needing to stop & talk gun rights everywhere I go all day long.

Plus, the concern about a gun grab attempt is a nontrivial concern. Of LEOs who are killed in the line of duty every year, a significant number are slain with their own firearms. These are people who carry in Level 3 retention holsters and have training in avoiding gun grabs. If you don't carry in a retention holster, don't have that training, and carry openly, you're being foolishly naive about a genuine & significant risk. Again, it's your life & I don't much care what you do, but don't go haranguing me for valuing mine more than that. ;)

pax
 
I think that open carry probably is a good deterent for most criminals.

Where the worst and more violent criminals are concerned, I think you might be more apt to attract them and put yourself in greater danger.

Cops get killed with their own guns after they initiate the contact.

I fear that Bubba, the violent offender, might be the one initiating the contact at a time of his choosing.:cool:
 
I geuss the thought I am trying to put together is that if we all carried without the "fear" of someone spotting it, the general public wouldn't be so freaked out when they saw it. Then maybe they would be so accustomed to the amout of guns walking around and could mentally compare that with the fact that there would be very little if any violent crime around us. Then when the anit-gun folks start screaming...the rest of America could tell the shut the heck up and leave us alone.
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Kind of like in Iraq eh ?
 
A question is not required to start a thread, just a subject.

To my mind, the subject at hand has two aspects: A social one and a legal one.

My friend and I were in a restaurant when the manager asked us politely if my friend would mind removing his gun out to his car because another patron was made nervous by its presence. Open carry was (and is) legal there, so there was no legal question, only one of sociability.

In August 2008 Brad Krause of West Allis, Wisconsin was arrested at gunpoint in his own front yard for disorderly conduct, based solely on the fact that he was wearing a holstered sidearm. The case was dismissed, but it took several months for him to get his gun back, and it was covered with some unidentified substance. I never did find out if it permanently damaged the gun.

If his local law enforcement comes down on law-abiding citizens on their own property merely posessing in a non-threatening manner any tool of self-defense, they are in dire need of retraining.

So, here is a public health question: Are we, as a society suffering from hoplophobia? (irrational fear of weapons)

Also in 2008, Meleanie Hain's concealed weapons permit was revoked Sept. 20 by Lebanon County, Pennsylvania Sheriff Michael DeLeo, who maintained she showed poor judgment wearing her gun to her daughter's soccer game Sept. 11. The permit was reinstated Oct. 14 by Lebanon County Judge Robert Eby. Pennsylvania allows open carry and concealed carry by permit.

Good tactics generally dictates we keep weapons concealed. Good politics requires we keep the question clearly answered in the law. Good manners require us to do these (sometimes conflicting) things diplomatically.

There lies the rub.

We hide our weapons because it is polite and does not excite the hoplophobes among us. But those good manners do little to protect (much less advance ) our right to keep and bear arms.

So, as an unlicensed psychologist, I will offer treatment at a mere $1,000 rate, a cure for hoplophobia, consisting of six sessions of counseling. The therapy will be Mondays (That's when my range is closed to the general public and I can get you in as my guest), I will provide the targets and at the end of treatment, you get to keep your gun, cleaning gear and, if you want, your empty brass.

So, by all means, tell your friends, neighbors and acquaintances that you are a firearms owner, have a concealed carry permit that you exercise at times. Let it come up casually in conversations (or, as in my State, as required by law, when you enter someone's household). But don't push it on them or advertise it to strangers inappropriately (or suicidally).

We do have to recognize the fact that some people are uncomfortable around armed people or even unloaded weapons, properly secured. Pity them if you will, but educate them if you can. But do so as diplomatically as you would a nicotine addict, a claustrophobe, a learning-impaired person or whoever.

I guess it is time to climb down off my soapbox now. (Free speech is as easily abused as any other right).

Thanks for reading.

Lost Sheep
 
Like others have stated, mainly Pax, I don't want people to know I have a gun on me.... and open carry to me is pretty pointless/reckless. I open carry on occasion, mainly if I am going or coming from the range depending on how many guns I am taking with me.

I sell firearms for a living at the moment, and although I love our 2nd amendment and support it whole heartedly... some of the customers I see and sadly sell firearms too makes me wish it wasn't so easy for some people to buy something that can kill me or others, but then again they are allowed to drive a car also which can be even more dangerous.:(

... and to be honest... if you were at my counter, and I asked what you carried, and you DREW your weapon, I would have an issue. Its one thing to show or tell me, but personally I don't know you, I don't know your firearms knowledge, I don't want a loaded weapon in your hand un-holstered while I am standing next to you.

I have seen too many stupid mistakes by even stupider people, its bad enough I have unsafe people standing next to me on the firing line, I don't need someone I do not know holding an un-holstered firearm in the store, standing in front of me.

I am also taking "pulled out" as in you un-holstered your firearm for my response.

Most people I meet that open carry sadly are people that want the attention or feel macho they can carry a gun around.

Oh and I am a college aged "kid" who works behind the gun counter, but theres a reason I do what I do, so I wouldn't judge us too much by our "cover" (no CCW pun intended of course:rolleyes:)
 
Me, I want to run my errands in a timely fashion, without needing to stop & talk gun rights everywhere I go all day long.
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Around here, that's be the equivalent of talking about your cell phone. Nobody cares.

Daryl
 
In my state open carry is not prohibited by any statute as long as you have the appropriate permit, but that does not stop the LEO from coming and taking away both your gun and permit. There are so many loopholes and inconsistencies here your chance of getting a permit depends on what town you live in. Point being, doesn't matter what I personally think should be allowed, the reality is that if I tried to open carry I'd be arrested within 10 minutes of being out in public.
 
I believe having a concealed pistol/revolver give you a tactical edge, or the element of surprise.

I believe most bandits are in fact cowards and will only strike the weak, or what they presume as week, and will flee if confronted by a concealed pistol/revolver.

If a bandit is going to accost someone, and know they are armed, they may shoot first, where as, if they don't believe you are armed they may hesitate giving you the advantage.

Also like Pax said, it just saves hassles, right or wrong many people are offended by the sight of someone carrying a firearm, why push it. Why go out your your way to make someone uncomfortable just to prove a point?
 
First for some background. ( I'm mid 40's ) I purchased my first 2 guns Jan 2010 and a third in March. 1 is carry, another is a carry that is tucked away hidden at home, and the third is a large frame house gun for BG visual impact / range fun. All are revolvers running 38. Purchases were driven by the neighborhood losing a few old timers I could call for backup and known trouble moving in. The area would be considered rural but at the fringes of becoming suburbs.

I grew up in the suburbs, mostly older established neighborhoods where no 2 houses were the same nor built at the same time. ( not development style )

My exposure to guns at that time was from my uncle / cousin that camped and hunted.( rifles , never saw a hand gun though they probably had one ) Those guns were just part of the camping gear and nothing out of the ordinary. My firing was limited to the occasional amusement park trip.

I've always maintained that with proper training, care and attitude owning a gun isn't a problem. I'm not sure if crazies are more likely to own a gun or are just more visible. I'm hoping they are just more visible to someone that is a non gun owner.

I've got a concealed permit and carry, well , concealed and don't make a fuss about it. I've gone open a time of two to a place that no one would notice. They would not notice because it is a industrial environment and there are always things hanging off ones belt. The OC occurred because I carry when I'm outside at home and didn't bother to make the switch to CC.

I think that, there are places in modern society where OC isn't socially acceptable. A suburban / city mall, resturant, store , bank and such as there is little need in normal daily life for a gun in the city. ( as in a gun isn't needed to protect cattle from cyotes ) However a rural area is more likely to have people that OC because the gun is a tool on the farm and they just happen to have it clipped to their belt when making the run to the tractor parts store.

There are lots of things that are legal but not prudent to push publicly and frankly I don't want them pushed in my face. For example, it is legal for same gender humans to have relations. I wonder if " MR I have a right to carry my gun and argue with you if you don't like it " would appreciate seeing two same gender people intertwined when he is at the beach , park or other area where it would be socially acceptable for mixed gender humans to do the same. Please don't pass judgment on whether the example behavior should be legal or illegal as that isn't the point of the comparison.
 
I carry concealed about a third of the time, openly about a third, and indifferently concealed the rest. I carry concealed first and last because I wear a jacket to have pocket to carry stuff in.

On average, someone notices one of my openly carried guns about once a year, which provides an opportunity to advocate for the right to keep and bear arms.

People who are afraid to exercise their rights don't still have them.
 
Up until May 2009, I lived my entire adult life in Vermont, where no permit is required and open or concealed carry are the option of the carrier. I never really thought about this subject, because no one made an issue of it.

When I moved to Florida, I learned that I needed a concealed carry permit, so I took the class, got finger printed and background checked, and got my permit. My instructor (heavily credentialed) said that exposing a weapon in public is considered "brandishing", and the reason for the prohibition is to remove the perceived threat of the handgun. Its open display is appropriate only when the gun legally may be used, which includes hunting and the limited circumstances of defense against deadly or severely injurious force.

The person who processed my application at the state office said that if people really knew how many people around them were carrying guns, they would (in her words) "freak out". So I suppose it depends primarily upon the applicable law and also on the socially acceptable practices in an area.

For some of us who have used firearms from childhood, it's not a big deal, and in rural areas, the perception is different from what it would be in heavily urban areas. These days, many people who have never been in the military or lived in a rural area and used firearms have zero knowledge about guns. All they know from movies and the news is that "guns kill". It's just common sense to avoid what they'd perceive as an "in your face" display of "deadly force".
 
Christ, give me strength to deal with semifuroranimanos.

Most people aren't plain used to guns. In our society, guns are not often a necessity. We have good police forces to defend ourselves and the world's best military to fight off threats. Civilian guns are really there for four reasons:

#1. Sport
#2. Hunt
#3. Compete
#3. Kill
 
Have you ever stopped to think as to why we need to hide that fact?
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In many states, it is the law.

I agree with the position of open carry to create familiarity with firearms in our society. There are too many communities that view firearms outside of LEO / military circles as criminal. Too many communities view firearms as a tool of the criminal elements of our society, which is COMPLETELY false.

Sadly, I don't believe this view can be changed by the few of us that would opt to openly carry our arms.
 
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