Just how stupid are we?

Even granting the OP the truth of the above quote, does anyone really believe the average voter is less informed or less intelligent than the average voter of the 1800's?
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I wouldn't go that far. I would say that the average voter of the 1800s was less likely to have been raised to look to the government for all the answers. Less likely to have been trained that government and the successful owe them free this or that. But let's fast forward to my parents' generation - the one that graduated high school in the 50s and 60s. They overwhelmingly could make change from a dollar, could spell, and could read their diplomas or they didn't get one. They could find Louisiana on a map and even France and Greece. All things that challenge those receiving a modern edumacation. :rolleyes:
 
All you teacher bashers should do some research and get some hard facts. Many of you are way off base. If you think teaching is such a cushy job, I urge you to try it.
 
Pay?

Three hundred dollars a day is not enough?

If you make this amount or more per day please ring in. Let us know the field you are in.
 
Do The Math

The average annual salary of a teacher in California is $57,000. Not bad for a full time worker, right. Well consider this, most teachers are contracted for between 180 and 190 days of work per year. At 190 days, that comes out to an average pay of $300 per day.

A couple of other ways to look at it. Extending this pay to a full year of work comes out to $75,000. Or how many people do you know of that make almost 60 grand a year with sixty days off.


I'm sorry, but someone has to let the cat out of the bag.:D
 
Roy Reali

That is Cali. Your numbers are the average. That's including the ones that have been at it for 30+ years. The ones just getting into the profession don't make near that. Try searching the rest of the country. When I was growing up, 80's-90's, my mother was doing good at 26-32,000. And thats with a masters+25 (maxed out for K-12). That was total. And she had her pay garnished to spread out her check to continue thru the summer. Before she left the public school system, she was topped out at 34K. Before you go making generalizations about an entire field from the highest paid state in the union, check the rest of the country. Teachers are the lowest paid proffesion for the job and the crap they put up with on a daily basis. I suggest you try it.
 
I see what you are saying now. However, does that include benefits and social security? My wife is a substitute teacher trying to get into the system. She makes around $80 a day for substituting. They pay the substitutes pretty well (usually better than a starting full time teacher) because they don't have to pay them benefits. I know several people who substitute full time, because their spouse provides health insurance. I have another friend who works full time as a teacher and you can tell does not live well off. Also, our teachers today have to work their butts off to meet all the requirements put on them (which are always increasing). Many have to continue taking classes either throughout the school year or during the summer, it is their choice.

I am not blindly defending them, and have been unhappy with many teachers (so has my wife who has had to substitute for a few teachers who had no discipline and it showed). But, after my wife went through the process of getting her degree (very difficult) and then through several different processes of getting certified, I have a new respect for what they go through, and for what they get paid to do it.
Also, many government jobs are a pain in the butt to get into, but once you are in, it is hard to lose your job. My father can attest to that as he works in the Department of Defense. I am sure it isn't much different for teachers.
 
Double Naught Spy

To quote the OP:

"Do you think a democracy is lessened when the majority of the population is voting on issues they know nothing about, got their opinion from a conglomerated TV news media source, or have a completely wrong understanding about them? This goes beyond party lines. The war example is troubling considering what was/is at stake and it's importance."

Pointing out the difference between stupid and ignorant does not invalidate the question.

Being smart and well educated means little in this case. This problem requires the will (to STAY informed), open mindedness (to look at ALL available information and judge it as free of bias as possible), and social awareness (to see that a good short term may turn into a bad long term) of the individual to fix. Blind ideology is a threat to this nation.



LightningJoe: Generalizing a position with sarcastic statments is a good example of what I'm talking about.
 
"Teachers are the lowest paid proffesion for the job and the crap they put up with on a daily basis."

Exactly.
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I have to call BS on this. When you factor in the short work year of 180 day and the 6 hour standard work days. The extremely cushy benefits and retirement packages that people in the private sector only dream about. And the fact that unless they molest an underage student they cannot be fired. And the absolute job security that those in the private sector only dream of... Most have it pretty darn cushy. The only ones I feel for are the tiny minority stuck in inner-city wasteland schools. But even there the school system and their unions are the root of much of the problem. Only postal workers are better at moaning about their cushy jobs.

But good job at parroting the mantra that the teachers' unions keep pounding into everyones' heads. It seems to be the only "educational" priority of the teachers' unions. Well that and teaching that government is mother and government is father and government is an all providing god. Socialism 101 is job-1.
 
6 hour standard work days? BS backatcha.
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8am to 2pm equals 6 hours, minus an hour for lunch... gee you're right 5 hour days. ;)

Now in my day they also got one free period (1hr/day) for grading papers. Toss in an extra hour - assuming they don't have the students grading each others papers/quizzes, and we're back to 6 hours. Those teaching an extra period are going to be paid for it.

Now before you start in on "lesson plans" lets look at reality. If a teacher has been teaching the same subject for the last 1-40yrs don't you think that they just might already have lesson plans laying around? There are also plenty of resources for those that don't.

By the way this is where free enterprise shines. California ranks in the middle in per student spending (~$10,000/student/year). Given choices parents could easily get their children a much better education in a much safer environment at a lower cost to the taxpayer. It's called competition and a dirty word to the education monopoly. You thought slavery ended with the emancipation proclamation? Wrong... the teachers unions consider your children to be their property. To be used for financial gain as long as they are useful for bringing in tax money, and then to be tossed aside like worn out sneakers when they are no longer a source of funds.

Oh and before anybody gets their shorts in a bunch this is not an attack on all teachers. There are some outstanding examples, just as there are some horror stories. I'm sure a bell curve would show us that the two balance out - but that does nothing for those left behind and all the victims of the gradual dumbing down of the system thats been going on since the late 60s. Oh and if I'm full of stuff and the kids are getting a world class education... why were so many that went on to a two year junior college forced to take a remedial math class? Why is it that it's taking three tries to pass the 10th grade level test that's required to get a 12 year diploma?
 
Sholling, why aren't you teaching then? By your statements(which I call BS), I would think you would be breaking down the door trying to get a job.

I sure would like to know what schools let out at 2:00pm and give teachers an hour for lunch. Could you provide me with this information cause I want to teach there!


I have to be at school by 7:30 each morning, thirty minutes before the first class starts, get .5hrs. for lunch(which is the only break in the day) and the last class ends at 3:05. But my day doesn't end there. My planning period takes me to 4:00. Now let's do the math, 7:30 to 4:00 - :30 for lunch = 8 hours.
 
Clarification

I hope I did not come across a teacher basher. Teachers do have to put up with a lot of BS. There are even schools that endanger the lives of teachers. I suppose you could argue that they deserve more pay and benefits too. But I am sick and tired of the myth being perpetuated that teachers are being paid the equivalent of some Chinese factory worker.

I just want to keep everything real.

r.childs
Your duty contract calls for eight hour days? I have seen teacher contracts that require seven hour work days. I want everyone to be honest, is that too much to ask for? Also, why don't you mention your daily rate of pay? Most salary schedules are broken down that way. One more thing, how many days per year are you contracted for? Full disclosure keeps the BS under control
 
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Spot-on, Roy.

My mother taught High School Home Ec for 25 years. She said she needed the three months off to regain her sanity. She also lamented how students became more self-centered and arrogant every year. She also had a summer job and did custom sewing and cake decorating on the side to make ends meet. (My father died when I was 5 and she never remarried; thus raising two kids alone on a teacher's salary. Way to go MOM!).

I'm currently a County Zoning Administrator. (No, I've not been shot at... yet :)). I notice people getting more self-centered every year. I've concluded in my short 40-years that:

People don't really “grow-up.” If you meet someone who's “mature,” they're just playing grownup.
Emotion and “smart” decision-making are often mutually exclusive.
People really don't know what they think on any particular issue.
Elected officials don't know how to run government, they know how to win popularity contests.

Thanks for tuning in.
 
Re:tvrobert

Thanks!

I just want everything to be real and out in the open. As you know, some folks can't handle the truth.
 
Let's take a reality check and see how successful the Georgia education monopoly has has been. Hmmmmm a 2001 graduation rate of 54%. Now my question is - if given a choice how many here would buy a gun or a car or a TV that only worked 54% of the time? How many would go to a surgeon that loses 46% of their patients on the table? Most of us wouldn't put up with that and we don't have to because we have choices. The educational monopoly can fail 46% of students year after year after year only because they have an effective monopoly and the political power to shift the blame from a systemic failure to the poor over bled taxpayer. Now considering an apples to apples comparison of what it takes academically to get a high school diploma in the great state of Georgia vs say Japan or the UK I wouldn't be too proud of that 54% because many of those would flunk out of a Japanese school.
 
Roy, let's be honest then. I will not post how much I make a day because, frankly, it's none of your business, just as your salary is none of mine. I will tell you it isn't $300 a day.

My yearly contract is for 190 days. By signing it, you agree to work the hours you are told to work. They are not listed on the contract.

And since we are gonna be honest, let me say I teach a trade at the high school I teach. Automotive Service Technology, which is a CTAE(Career Technical Agriculture Education)class. CTAE teachers work on what's called extended day. This means I have four 1.5hr blocks(classes) each day. Academic teachers have 3 blocks a day with a 1.5hr planning period. My planning period comes after school from 3:05 till 4:30. We are given a little flexibility with this which allows me to come in 30 minutes early and stay an hour after students are gone for my planning period.

And since we are getting all this out, let me say I'm not your typical teacher. I didn't go to college(except the college of hard knocks) to become a teacher right out of high school. I went to work for a global company as a diesel mechanic where I worked on semi trucks for over 20 years. I've been in the real world and paid my dues.

In the state of Ga, the CTAE(formerly vocational)teachers are pulled from industry. This means that they actually hire someone who has legitimate experience in the field that is being taught. You can't exactly go to college and get a BS degree in Automotive, or Welding, or Construction, etc. So people are hired right out of the field they will be teaching. This requires no college degree. It does require you take about 30 hours of college credits which I had to quit the job I had to start taking during the summer before I started teaching. I went 3 months without a paycheck to do this. Things got tight!

To sholling

I don't really understand where you're trying to go with that post. If you read my previous posts, I haven't said the education system was without fault. I was pointing out that teachers don't have it as easy as many of you think.

Whatever you think about teachers and the failure of todays students, first look at what our society has turned into. There are so many broken/single parent homes where there is no male to put the law down, and mom is out working two jobs trying to make ends meet cause dad is a deadbeat or in prison. This leaves little Johnny in the care of someone else or at home by himself to learn the basics of life. How to act, respect elders, what's right and what's wrong, etc. Where does he learn this? Try what's on TV, watching videos on MTV, listening to that crap rap music. Couple this with the parents whose children do no wrong and do no disciplining, and it's no wonder they act the way they do.

I've been in to many parent/teacher conferences where the parent sides with the child. "My child does no wrong!" What a lesson is learned there. That tells a child that he/she can do what they want cause mom has my back. Wow!

Teachers are there to teach. They aren't parents to the students, they aren't friends, and they shouldn't be confidants but often they/we are. Students have come to me and told me stuff I don't need to know about.

Bottom line, before you think a teacher has it so easy, I urge you to try it sometime. This from someone who's worked in the real world and many, many times wishes he was back in it.
 
Shollin and Roy...
Yall's whole line of thinking is way off the chart. You guys sound like Teacher Bigots.

The graduation rate has as little to do with a teachers performance in the classroom as the murder rates being related to law abiding gun owners. Have you looked at the dropout rates?? That also affects the graduation rate. A Teacher cannot keep a student from dropping out. Especially where the emancipation laws are in effect.

Me pounding out propaganda with the teachers union, WHAT?? Have either of you had a school teacher in your family? Ever had this conversation with a teacher? I can speak acurately on the subject because, like I've said before, my mother was one.

I went to the same school where she was teaching. I had to arrive there around 0600, cause she did. School didn't start until 0700. I was there till 1600. School was let out at 1500. The kids may have only that short of a day, but the teachers were there much longer. For my mother, that was a 10 hour day, according to my West Virginia math. And our teachers were at school 2 weeks more than the students, a week before school started and a week after.

You may be refering to some schools that you know of, you are ignorant to the rest of the country. Or you may be refering to highschool teachers or what ever, but to slander the whole of an occupation that is the #1 most needed proffesion in the world, makes no sense whatsoever. And to me a personal attack that I don't take too kindly.

Yall need to get out there and do some actual field work before comming into a conversation like this.
 
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