Just got chased by a random car...

[armed_librarian]

I'm with the OP

Not sure why the OP is drawing criticism. I also do not feel as though he did anything wrong. Heck, I honestly don't see what could have been done better. He didn't stop and confront, he called 911, he kept moving and didn't endanger himself or any other bystanders. He did good in my eyes.

Sorry, but I get tired of the mindset that we need to walk around on tiptoes so we don't tick anybody off. Responses like this just bug me.

Just got chased by a random car...
It was not a 'random' car kemosabe.

It was an individual you ticked off.

Do you 'randomly' honk your horn at cars to?

Deaf

Don't get me wrong, I do my best to avoid as much conflict as I can. However, I'm not gonna second guess little decisions like hitting my horn in fear that its gonna upset someone else. I keep hearing people say America is becoming a nation of sissies and it doesn't seem far off the mark.

 

[Jim243]

I see multiple issues with this post.

First:
It is illegal to block an intersection or public street and is a ticket offense in almost all States or communities unless the vehicle is disabled.

Second:
Use of the horn as a signaling device to warn other drivers is not illegal as long as you are not abusive in it's use.

Third:
Anyone that leaves their car to confront you is committing "Aggravated Assault, with intent" (a criminal act) and you are justified to shoot to defend yourself. Just don't shoot them in the back when they see your gun and run away.

Forth:
Get the lic plate number and a description of the car (color, make, type) and do make a police report to protect yourself from wrongful prosecution of drawing your firearm.

Remember "Road Rage" is a criminal act and those commuting it are subject to being jailed for it. While you may have been lucky, the next driver this person comes upon may not be as fortunate and incur serious injury or death.

Let's get these people off our roads.
Jim

 

[Theohazard]

Anyone that leaves their car to confront you is committing "Aggravated Assault, with intent" (a criminal act) and you are justified to shoot to defend yourself. Just don't shoot them in the back when they see your gun and run away.

I'm no lawyer or use-of-force expert, but this doesn't sound right. Are you saying that if someone stops their car, gets out, and walks toward you aggressively, you have the right to shoot them?

 

[psalm7]

My line of work means I get to deal with any and everything that can come up in a large work place that involves lots of employees and the public . You never know what is going to happen when responding these days . This is a rural area and last week we had a Meth head that I had to try and reason with and detain until the City Police picked him up . Road rage is much more common than It used to be and a lot more dangerous I drive around a hour to work and it's not uncommon to see some one get mad and start agressive driving .

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Third:
Anyone that leaves their car to confront you is committing "Aggravated Assault, with intent" (a criminal act) and you are justified to shoot to defend yourself. Just don't shoot them in the back when they see your gun and run away.

They may have intent and opportunity, not ability. Hence no reason to use lethal force.

"Aggravated assault with intent" is usually doing physical harm to another person with the intent of committing some other crime. Unless I have misread the statutes, getting out of your car to yell at somebody isn't aggravated assault, with intent or otherwise.

 

[zxcvbob]

Remember "Road Rage" is a criminal act and those commuting it are subject to being jailed for it. While you may have been lucky, the next driver this person comes upon may not be as fortunate and incur serious injury or death.

I think giving it a name "legitimizes" it somehow and makes it more common -- raises the bar on what they think they can get away with.

We've always had aggressive a-hole drivers, but homicidal maniacs were rare. Now I almost feel that I need to carry my .45 when I ride a bicycle because some nut will try to run me down at an intersection.

 

[Jim243]

getting out of your car to yell at somebody isn't aggravated assault, with intent or otherwise.

Yes it is (LOL) and that is exactly what you will be charged with if you were to do it. Try doing that to a police officer even during just a traffic stop and see what happens. You have every right to protect yourself as does he or she. And as to intent, that is exactly what they have indicated by aggressively coming at you. (to do bodily harm) Getting out of your car to render assistance is one thing, to attack someone, verbally or otherwise is something completely different.

Violence on the road is no longer a joke and should no longer be tolerated.

If you can not control your temper while driving, you do not belong on the road.
Jim

 

[OldMarksman]

Posted by Jim243: Anyone that leaves their car to confront you is committing "Aggravated Assault, with intent" (a criminal act)...

On what do you base that belief?

....and you are justified to shoot to defend yourself.

To defend your self against what? What would constitute lawful justification?

Just don't shoot them in the back when they see your gun and run away.

Good idea.

...do make a police report to protect yourself from wrongful prosecution of drawing your firearm.

If you draw a firearm because someone has left his car to "confront" you, it would be difficult indeed to argue that prosecution would be "wrongful."

Most likely, said act would itself constitute aggravated assault, or whatever it is called in the jurisdiction at hand.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

Yes it is (LOL) and that is exactly what you will be charged with if you were to do it.

Be careful with such broad statements. I can't speak to your state but that claim is absolutely false in NY.

I had a guy chase me up the road, pull into my parking lot, try to slam my car door on my legs and refuse to leave when I told him repeatedly.

He committed no form of assault whatsoever under NY law. He was committing trespassing (No more than a violation, like a speeding ticket) and at most 2nd Degree Aggravated Harassment (Class A Misdemeanor), neither of which is even an offense worthy of custodial arrest, say nothing of a response of deadly force.

Even if he WERE committing assault, which requires intent and actual physical harm, it would be a Class A misdemeanor. If I shot him, it would be ME getting charged with serious crimes, not him.

 

[Jim243]

I had a guy chase me up the road, pull into my parking lot, try to slam my car door on my legs and refuse to leave when I told him repeatedly.

State of NY statue

S 120.10 Assault in the first degree.
A person is guilty of assault in the first degree when:
1. With intent to cause serious physical injury to another person, he
causes such injury to such person or to a third person by means of a
deadly weapon or a dangerous instrument; or
2. With intent to disfigure another person seriously and permanently,
or to destroy, amputate or disable permanently a member or organ of his
body, he causes such injury to such person or to a third person; or
3. Under circumstances evincing a depraved indifference to human life,
he recklessly engages in conduct which creates a grave risk of death to
another person, and thereby causes serious physical injury to another
person; or
4. In the course of and in furtherance of the commission or attempted
commission of a felony or of immediate flight therefrom, he, or another
participant if there be any, causes serious physical injury to a person
other than one of the participants.
Assault in the first degree is a class B felony.

The only question i have is do you shoot him before he injures you or do you have to wait till after you have been injured???

Jim

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

by means of a deadly weapon or a dangerous instrument;

he causes such injury

evincing a depraved indifference to human life, he recklessly engages in conduct which creates a grave risk of death

in furtherance of the commission or attempted commission of a felony

None of those apply. If you use ANY level of force against the person in my scenario or as you say

"Anyone that leaves their car to confront you is committing "Aggravated Assault, with intent"

It would be YOU and not them that was committing an extremely serious crime. I highly doubt that there is a single jurisdiction in the USA that would allow ANY use of force against someone who gets out of a vehicle and "confronts you".

 

[Jim243]

Most likely, said act would itself constitute aggravated assault, or whatever it is called in the jurisdiction at hand.

It is unless in self-defense to protect yourself and your family from sudden harm.

Jim

 

[Jim243]

I highly doubt that there is a single jurisdiction in the USA that would allow ANY use of force against someone who gets out of a vehicle and "confronts you".

I am sorry Brian we disagree on this. There have been many cases adjudicated where the defendant has shot an unarmed attacker and has been acquitted on grounds of justifiable homicide.

I am not saying everyone should do so because it will depend on the circumstances surrounding the case and the temperament of the local States Attorney as well as any previous history of the assailant. If some giant gets out of his car screaming at me with a tire iron in his hand, they will be notifying his next of kin. I am sure the family will say he was a God fearing church goer that could never hurt a fly. But I will deal with that once my family is safe.

Jim

 

[OldMarksman]

Posted by Jim243: The only question i have is do you shoot him before he injures you or do you have to wait till after you have been injured???

Stop for a minute.

The justification of the use of force does not revolve around what crime the person against whom the use of force has been used may have committed, or may be charged with. That is completely irrelevant.

Justification will depend entirely upon whether the defender had reason to believe that the use of force had been immediately necessary. Period.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

I am sorry Brian we disagree on this. There have been many cases adjudicated where the defendant has shot an unarmed attacker and has been acquitted on grounds of justifiable homicide.



I am not saying everyone should do so because it will depend on the circumstances surrounding the case and the temperament of the local States Attorney as well as any previous history of the assailant. If some giant gets out of his car screaming at me with a tire iron in his hand, they will be notifying his next of kin. I am sure the family will say he was a God fearing church goer that could never hurt a fly. But I will deal with that once my family is safe.



Jim

You've completely changed the scenario.

You started with
"Anyone that leaves their car to confront you is committing "Aggravated Assault, with intent"

First it's "anyone" who gets out to "confront you".

Now it's "a giant... with a tire iron".

 

[OldMarksman]

Posted by Jim243: If some giant gets out of his car screaming at me with a tire iron in his hand,...

That would be very worrisome, but there would be other factors. Distance. Whether he was approaching. Whether you had been able to drive away. And so on. All very important.

...they will be notifying his next of kin.

Careful! Should it become immediately necessary, as a last resort, you would be justified in using force to defend yourself, but you do not want to be quoted as having wanted his demise.

I am sure the family will say he was a God fearing church goer that could never hurt a fly.

That is irrelevant.

But I will deal with that once my family is safe.

Actually, the criminal justice system will "deal with that". Your role may be that of suspect or defendant.

 

[Jim243]

Actually, the criminal justice system will "deal with that". Your role may be that of suspect or defendant.

Most likely as defendant, and the criminal justice system does not "deal with that", too often felons are pleaded down to misdemeanors to clear the court systems of their case overloads.

The person that attacked Brian committed a class B felony under NY state law and was never charged even with a misdemeanor, the next person that the individual will attack (and he will attack again) might not be as lucky as Brian was and I would blame Brian for that for not prosecuting him (I do like Brian however).

Back in the early 1980's I was elected to public office here in Illinois and issued a badge and police powers (but not as a LEO). Two thing I found very distasteful, people that failed to register to vote and then did so and those that think they can get away with crimes against "persons" and get off with a light sentence or are never prosecuted because witness are fearful to come forward or take the time to do so.

If you don't stand up and be counted or stand for something, then you will surly fall for anything. and call a ace of spades a ace of hearts.

So stand up and tell these roadside bully's that their days are numbered. Tell your Secretary of State of these incidents along with the persons Lic number, they will get their Lic suspended.

Jim

 

[johnelmore]

Im wondering. At what point would it have been appropriate to draw a pistol? What about my "bear repellant"? I wasnt about to let him get into a position where he could attack me.

As for my bear repellant. I dont carry it around in my vehicle, but now I am. It has a range of 30 feet and the attacker gets put into a cloud of pepper. Not just a little stream, but a huge cloud.

 

[Pond James Pond]

I don't know about the US legal aspect but, had you not had a means of driving around, I would have considered drawing when he cut you up, forcing you to stop so he could get out of his car. Had he had a gun at 6 o'clock, you wouldn't have known it before it was pointing at you through the driver side window.

Bear spray through the barely opened window (being careful not to flood the car interior! ) would be preferable.

As it happens you had a means of escape which fortunately you took, but did you have time to check over your shoulder?
You could have pulled out in front of an HGV (semi') for example, in your bid to get away in a hurry.

His is the kind of mentality (which I have experienced and witnessed far more than I like to consider) that would make me far more worried about unfettered access to guns over here...

 

[Theohazard]

If some giant gets out of his car screaming at me with a tire iron in his hand, they will be notifying his next of kin.

I'm with Brian here: You've changed your story entirely. You originally claimed that if someone stopped their car, got out, and then walked toward you aggressively, then you were justified in shooting them. You never mentioned a tire iron or any other type of weapon.

In the scenario you originally mentioned, lethal force would not be justified. To claim otherwise is not only incorrect, but it's also irresponsible: Many people who are new to concealed carry read this forum and we should do our best to avoid spreading bad information to them, especially information that can get them thrown in jail if they follow it.

I also agree with OldMarksman: It's extremely foolish to make any public statements about your intent to kill another person, even if it's justified in the scenario you're presenting.