...just a loaf of bread...

[The Tourist]

I know! Apparently you failed to notice; but, neither did I.

Sir, I never meant to imply or infer that you personally were in the group of elitists.

In fact, perhaps I should state now that a debate should address the pros and cons of an issue, and never the personalities.

(To that end, this thread has gone way diferently than I imagined.)

I'm sorry that I'm not as brave as a lot of the people. I really am. I just can't be that brave. It's not in me. So I lock my doors

This is known as a 'layered' security approach, and I believe in it. So did my Dad, an engineer in the security sector for 42 years. He gave me my first padlock when I was five years old.

Perhaps my unvarnished attitude might clear things up here. Yes, I believe in security and safety--for myself and those in my care. As you might remember, my niece was with us that week.

As stated, I believe in layered security in the guise of lights, locks and alarms.

As many of you do, I also have an extensive collection of pistols (many custom), rifles, an HD, knives, etc., which might be a target for home invasion.

I believe in 'condition yellow.'

I also believe in Ayoob, Cooper, both Skeltons and Jordan when it comes to the politics of safety and attack. I believe them to be realists. I question the credentials of anyone that 'smells funny.'

Again, the thrust of my thread was to highlight a guy who should know better and goofs up. I believed I'd get some advice, I believe it might have struck a chord with TFL members who catch themselves doing the same, and finally some good natured ribbing.

What surprises me is 'needs based' privileges being supported (yes, Wisconsin people die just like you) and the warrior attitude of guys sitting on their CCW licenses--but find it appalling that anyone else would like to have that privilege, as well.

My community has changed in the 30 years that "good old Mad Town" gained its 'Number One' rating as a 'party college' by Playboy Magazine. You don't walk alone in the areas depicted in that story. One girl was recently killed and dumped in an open field.

And finally, I would like my debating opponents to imagine themselves as a citizen here, devoid of any of the safety implements you consider mundane. In my area, the good guys get arrested for CCW, the pushers and the bangers rule the parking lots.

Is there any other aspect I have not covered?

 

[rampage841512]

Tourist, my most recent post was not aimed at you, but my sarcastic response to the people who have derided 'precaution' as 'paranoia.'

 

[The Tourist]

That's okay, Rampage841512, I never meant to offend anyone. In many ways I was still seething from "having lunch."

I always try to be funny in responses to posts. If I get my dander up I will use sarcasm and wit to deflect the ire.

Personally, I find this thread more positive than negative, and that makes a good debate.

 

[Derius_T]

Mattro, thanks for the video. Its chilling. A perfect example of how gun control "works".

Nightwatchman, You and your wife survived some very serious encounters, and I hope you never have to face anything like that again. It is the perfect example of why it is never wrong to be prepaired.

03Shadowbob wrote:

More like being a realist and not living in a video game world. In reality, it is the over-zealous, paranoid, itchy trigger finger people who are much worse for the 2A cause.

C'mon, this is sad really. No one here has ever advocated being "itchy on the trigger finger", or anything of the sort. In fact, most people here you will find are of the mindset that "I hope none of us/you ever, ever, has to take a life." You will also find, if you did a poll of experience on this particular forum, that the vast majority of people here are military/ex-military, LEO/ex-LEO, or other pro-gun related jobs or hobbies, and that most here are responsible adults looking for like minded people to share stories, get advice, ect.

Hardly non-realistic, or 'video game' people.

I have actually had a gun pulled on me a few times before and my weapon was my mind even though I had a firearm on me. You see, no matter what world you live in Derius, that firearm can either kill or get you killed. If I would have chosen to pull my firearm in 2 specific cases because of having been drawn down on, then I'd be dead. My firearm did not prove to be a precaution as you state. At other times, my firearms did prove to be a precaution and a tool. The way you perceive things is sometimes not the real world.

Your first weapon is always your brain. Without that, a weapon is of no use to you. That is why people advocate being both mentally (condition white, yellow, ect) and physically (insert gun here) PREPAIRED. If that is paranoia in your world, then thank God I don't have to live in your world. It sounds like a dangerous place.

And you are right, the firearm or any other weapon, OR state of being prepaired or alert isn't ALWAYS going to save you, but its nice to be ready and or able to respond, and to have the tools to do so if you can.....isn't it?

And that is really what everyone here is saying if you look. Some of us are not brilliant speech writers, but I believe we get the point across to anyone who wants to take the time to read, and not just start throwing out messages that do nothing to help the situation.

If any/all of tht makes me live in a different or unreal world, well, I'm glad I live there, because here I am able to freely go where I choose, when I choose, without being in total fear or denial, because I have the RIGHT to protect myself and my family, and in doing so, I must be vigilant and prepaired. Hell, here in MY world, even the boy scouts know that.

 

[Avenger11]

Perhaps it's all in the semantics? I'm proud to live in one of the few countries that has the Constitutional Right to protect ourselves, family, and possessions! Granted, it's a fragile right and always subject to attack and revision from those that disagree. Each of us also have the freedom to express our views openly and determine how we choose to exercise our Second Amendment right's.
Common sense, personal demographics, and level of threat should dictate how we choose to put our rights into action.
Those that opt to take extreme views do a disservice, and provide fodder to those that would restrict our gun rights.
Measured and thoughtful use of gun rights will insure our ultimate success. Paranoia, chest thumping, and Macho immaturity will not!

 

[kgpcr]

So True Avenger. I have always maintained the biggest threat to CCW is a CCW carier going postal in a situation he should not even pull his/her weapon. Thats all the anits need. Paranoia will cause a Rambo wannabe to pull his piece with a 17rnd mag and hurt alot of people and there goes our CCW. We just dont need to give any ammo to the Liberal anti gun people!!

 

[BluesBear]

have actually had a gun pulled on me a few times before and...

Whas it a total surprise in every case?

I too have had a few guns pulled on me. Knives too. Even a set of dumbchucks once.
I don't recall any of those instances as being a complete surprise. In each and every case I knew the person was going to do something uncomfortable.
I do admit the dumchucks were a surprise since I was expecting the moron to pull a gun.

Talk to anyone who worked at a convenience store or liquor store for any length of time. Just about every one of them will admit to have "that feeling". They will say, "I just had the feeling that (that guy) was planning to rob me." or "You could tell they were 'casing' the place". Would you call those clerks paranoid? WHy is it that some stores are robbed repeatedly and yet others are left alone?
The usual reason that a robbery didn't happen when the clerk had "that feeling" was because the would be robber noticed that the clerk was paying too much attention. That his behaviour was noticed and he figured the risk wasn't worth it. Those clerks were just practicing situational awareness.

Being aware of your "situation" will enable you to see that crack in the pavement so you don't stumble and fall. You will notice the child running amok in the supermarket and you won't let him crash into you and make you drop your eggs. You'll see that moron on the cellphone driving cluelessly through the parking lot and you won't step in front of her. You won't step in front of the bus while crossing the street. And you'll notice the thug sizing you up trying to determine if your wallet or watch is worth stealing.

And by being aware you won't look like a victim.

Look around you sometime. Go to a place with lots of people. Just walk around looking at people and make sure you are smiling. Notice all of the people walking around almost oblivious to their surroundings. Watch people who don't look where they are going. See how many bump into each other or have to sidestep at the last instant to keep from walking into another person or object. See the people too busy talking on their cell phone or reading a text message. Their minds are all somewhere else. Then notice the people who notice you. The people who smile back at you as opposed to those who don't even see you much less your smile. You'll see people who smile back at you from a distance and those who don't notice you until the last minute and then smile nervously back at you.
You'll soon be able to determine the ones who are prime victims. They are the ones you see on the "Eyewitness News" saying something like, "He just appeared out of nowhere and grabbed my purse. It all happened so fast. I couldn't get a good look at him." Even though they were followed for six blocks until the robber found the right moment to strike and get away.
For Heaven's sake. The robbers, thugs and gangbangers all are using situational awarenewss. Why shouldn't we?

Look at the gangbangers just hanging out looking for someone tresspassing on their turf. They notice the patrol car as soon as it turns the corner a block away. They can spot a rental car from 50 yards. They can spot a plainclothes cop in a crowd of 1000. They rely on awareness to survive.

Look at any number of wildlife shows on the animal channel. Notice which animal attacks which other animal. Compare the tactics of both the predator and the prey. The predators will watch and evaluate the herd. They will use cover and surprise to their advantage. And it's usually the weak and clueless one that becomes brunch.
Yet some herds behave in a way that makes it difficult for the predator. They stay away from places the predators can hide. They often post lookouts who watch out for the safety of the herd. Are they paranoid. Dang right they are. They KNOW there's something out there with an appetite.

I find it sad that some people just can't seem to comprehend the difference between caution and paranoia. They're in danger of becoming dinner.

 

[The Tourist]

I find it sad that some people just can't seem to comprehend the difference between caution and paranoia. They're in danger of becoming dinner.

Thank you, you have provided the explanation that many of us were trying to convey.

I was once corresponding to a another biker in our forum when he mentioned changing lanes once "by dumb luck." The ignorant driver then swung in front of him with no warning. Had he continued driving in that section of the road, the cager would have rolled right over the top of him.

The guys there had a conversation much like this one. You get to see so many stupid situations in staying alive on the highway that you develope the bikers' version of "spidey sense."

More to the point, I think most of us can tell the difference between boys listening to the radio and a drug deal going down. As you stated, you get that feeling, and you see it coming from a mile away.

And you should consider this. Suppose I was dead wrong. Suppose it was just a bunch of kids listening to the radio.

I'm still alive, none the less. And it was a dramatic lesson for the next time.

 

[Avenger11]

If you take a prudent, measured, planned, and intelligent approach to self defense, then you are cautious. If your approach is fear based, like a bogey around every corner, or you just have a "feeling", or you live your life around self defense, or feel empowered because you own a firearm then you are paranoid!!

 

[zeroskillz]

while my wife finished dinner, she handed me a few bucks and told me to shag some

What a woman.
I love typos

 

[hj28rules]

Kudos for posting a real dillema for consideration. I'm a senior citzen, a veteran of both Viet Nam and Desret Storm and recently retired. The crime rate where I live is not very high but is driven by gang activity. There are 15 & 16 year old 'gangsta wannabe's' that lurk in parking lots and around selected hang-outs, all looking to earn a 'teardrop tattoo'. If it's late in the evening and I have to go to the corner store, I will carry. Here in Texas, after September 1, I can keep a firearm in my automobile/truck. I plan to do just that. I also carry a taser, just in case.
If you have a CHL, carry that weapon.

LM...Ft. Worth, Tx.
PO1 USN: 1964-1972 Viet Nam Vet
SFC US ARMY (NG):1982-1996 Desert Storm Vet KKMC (ret.)