The big problem Jimenez faces is Hi-Point. Hi-Point makes cheap reliable guns and they have earned their ugly-but-good reputation. Jimenez is way behind the eight-ball on this. They would be better off starting from scratch rather than attempt to continue making guns that had bad reputations for a long time.
Jimenez and Budget Guns In General:
- Thread starter Husqvarn
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Taurus has repeatedly made that claim over the years. I continued to see horrible lapses in quality control from them.
Such a promise from Jimenez means even less to me. The problems I've seen with them aren't whoopsies in assembly--they're problems with design and fabrication.
I worked on a lot of those guns when I was employed by a man who hated to send stuff back. They were pretty bad, but on design it is hard to see which features/parts were bad and/or had not been used on other guns. As an example, the use of a striker (this was pre-Glock) was much criticized, though the Colt Vest Pocket, the FN 1910 and 1922, the Mauser, and many other pistols used strikers.
But even the best design will not make a good quality gun if parts are made of soft castings, springs take a set after a few rounds, wire springs break or lose tension, trigger bars bend or wear out rapidly, etc.
Jim
But even the best design will not make a good quality gun if parts are made of soft castings, springs take a set after a few rounds, wire springs break or lose tension, trigger bars bend or wear out rapidly, etc.
Jim
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As stated in post 13.
I would have to agree, the Taurus PT111 is a very attractive option right now.
I have one and can attest that it is very reliable and will eat any ammo I put through it.
Even SWC's
I have gotten email flyers offing them for $199. You cant beat that price with a stick.
Mine is a PT111 Millennium Pro, I paid a bit more than the $199 they go for now.
And the new ones are better.
I also have a Canik 55 TP-9 that would also fit in your price range.
Good gun, but it wont eat the verity of Ammo the PT111 will.
PT111 has a much better feed ramp in my opinion.
But you do get a boat load of extra stuff with the Canik.
I would have to agree, the Taurus PT111 is a very attractive option right now.
I have one and can attest that it is very reliable and will eat any ammo I put through it.
Even SWC's
I have gotten email flyers offing them for $199. You cant beat that price with a stick.
Mine is a PT111 Millennium Pro, I paid a bit more than the $199 they go for now.
And the new ones are better.
I also have a Canik 55 TP-9 that would also fit in your price range.
Good gun, but it wont eat the verity of Ammo the PT111 will.
PT111 has a much better feed ramp in my opinion.
But you do get a boat load of extra stuff with the Canik.
polyphemus
New member
Wrong on both counts.
Thanks Guys!
Lots of good info.
I´v checked out Buds Gun Shop on line and Impact Guns where I can go directly into make, caliber and price range. The ones I´m interested I hit the forums and Youtube too see the testing and opinions.
The BBB tells me if the Company stands behind it´s Product, but if customers do not go beyond the Company itself and up too the BBB with unresolved complaints then other consumers like myself cannot know if the said Co. is doing it´s best for the customer. This is where the FORUM comes in where gun owners of a particular model can report their experiances not just with the guns performance but how they were treated by the Company in solveing the problem.
Watching the Jimenez on Youtube the guns seem too work great, even when the youtuber is trying to get the gun too malfunction and go outside the factory recomendation like shooting +P HP´s and a slide that sounds like it´s full of sand.....the guns just keep on working, so all the negative comments I read about just do not seem too jive yet very few shops will stock them due too a bad rep that seems unjustifiable.
I´m not sold on Jimenez yet as there are other great guns in and a litte above the price class.
I like the Classic desighn, simplicity and few working parts.
Some of the Double Actions typs seem too have customer service problems. Nothing but good reports on SCCY, that one is at the top of my list.
Hi-Point with it´s Star Wars image just doesn´t seem do it for me on looks.
Lots of good info.
I´v checked out Buds Gun Shop on line and Impact Guns where I can go directly into make, caliber and price range. The ones I´m interested I hit the forums and Youtube too see the testing and opinions.
The BBB tells me if the Company stands behind it´s Product, but if customers do not go beyond the Company itself and up too the BBB with unresolved complaints then other consumers like myself cannot know if the said Co. is doing it´s best for the customer. This is where the FORUM comes in where gun owners of a particular model can report their experiances not just with the guns performance but how they were treated by the Company in solveing the problem.
Watching the Jimenez on Youtube the guns seem too work great, even when the youtuber is trying to get the gun too malfunction and go outside the factory recomendation like shooting +P HP´s and a slide that sounds like it´s full of sand.....the guns just keep on working, so all the negative comments I read about just do not seem too jive yet very few shops will stock them due too a bad rep that seems unjustifiable.
I´m not sold on Jimenez yet as there are other great guns in and a litte above the price class.
I like the Classic desighn, simplicity and few working parts.
Some of the Double Actions typs seem too have customer service problems. Nothing but good reports on SCCY, that one is at the top of my list.
Hi-Point with it´s Star Wars image just doesn´t seem do it for me on looks.
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Cant say' I have never had to use it. I have heard they do cover their guns but it is not as user friendly as say Hi-Point or Ruger.
I say get both. A 9 for CC and a pocket rocket for grab and go times.
I have had a TCP and now have a LCP.
You would be surprised just how often a little pocket 380 comes in handy.
Gona holster up for a milk run??? Heck no, even though you should.
Grab it throw it in your pocket and make the run and still be able to protect your self.
I did not have a problem with the TCP. Just thought I did not need it any more and sold it. MISTAKE!!!! Missed it right away.
Hence the LCP.
These pocket rockets are not range guns though. Other than practice to be proficient with it.
They are not fun range guns at all.
A good choice for a range gun .380 would be a Bersa Thunder. Its a hoot to shoot and they are very very accurate.
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COZ
The Argentina Bersa 380 is in the ball park at $270 from Impact Guns. Copy of the PPK.
As an import gun I guess knowing how the customer service is would be hard too know, particularly if you have never had any problems with it.
Learning some new terminalogies....CC and Pocket Rocket...cool man
I thought CC´s were pocket pistols.
Yes the 380 pocket rocket is on the table but then I do a lot of Trail Riding with my horses and would like something with a Little more Heft if you know what i mean. So yes I am looking at a 2-gun ownership outside my hunting rifles in the future, a Pocket Grab that hopefully will never be used and a Holster Rig with a bit of a punch for the trail.....thus the low price tag on the CC........the Trail Gun is going too run some $´s.
The Argentina Bersa 380 is in the ball park at $270 from Impact Guns. Copy of the PPK.
As an import gun I guess knowing how the customer service is would be hard too know, particularly if you have never had any problems with it.
Learning some new terminalogies....CC and Pocket Rocket...cool man
I thought CC´s were pocket pistols.
Yes the 380 pocket rocket is on the table but then I do a lot of Trail Riding with my horses and would like something with a Little more Heft if you know what i mean. So yes I am looking at a 2-gun ownership outside my hunting rifles in the future, a Pocket Grab that hopefully will never be used and a Holster Rig with a bit of a punch for the trail.....thus the low price tag on the CC........the Trail Gun is going too run some $´s.
There are military surplus and police surplus handguns out there in your price range.
CDI Sales on Gunbroker and the AIM Surplus site are two of my favorites, but there are many others.
There are many 380 and 9mm pistols in the $200-$300 price range that are better quality than anything you could buy new for the same money. That includes Berettas, Czech 380's, Star 9mm, Hungarian (FEG) copies of the Browning High Power, CZ75 clones, etc. Some of them are barely used.
I have a number of Taurus firearms and like most of them, but my many surplus pistols are generally built like tanks and will easily outlast me.
CDI Sales on Gunbroker and the AIM Surplus site are two of my favorites, but there are many others.
There are many 380 and 9mm pistols in the $200-$300 price range that are better quality than anything you could buy new for the same money. That includes Berettas, Czech 380's, Star 9mm, Hungarian (FEG) copies of the Browning High Power, CZ75 clones, etc. Some of them are barely used.
I have a number of Taurus firearms and like most of them, but my many surplus pistols are generally built like tanks and will easily outlast me.
But the Jimenez does???
Seriously? While I often talk about how some of the older J-22's aren't as bad as some (who have never owned them) make them out to be; I call it the way I see it from personal ownership experience. The larger caliber Jimenez/Jennings/Lorcin/Bryco pistols are pretty junky. Sure, you might find one that works - in fact I own a Lorcin .380 that works....for now....after being sent back to the factory several times. Rather than base your analysis of a gun company on what the BBB says, ask these questions instead:
1. Why has a gun maker had to change its name at least 3 times?
2. What is ZAMAK (wikipedia is your friend)?
3. Have you ever disassembled a Jimenez/Jennings/Lorcin/Bryco pistol?
4. Why is the safety switch made out of plastic (at least on many of the variations)?
5. Why is it widely reported that extractors break or fail to work?
6. Why are there so many parts sets for these guns on ebay and gunbroker?
7. Why does hardly anyone bid on these guns on Gunbroker?
I have a TPC I bought for $199 to go along with my S&W SD9VE(size and weight of Glock 19 that replaced my Hi-Point C9 due to thickness and weight). It initially had a few issues that I discussed with Taurus through their chat function on their web page. They suggested I send it in at their cost. It took them 7 weeks to get it back but it has been flawless in the 500-600 rounds I have shot through it.
I am very happy with it and can't imagine not having the little thing with me. With practice, it is surprisingly accurate at 7 yards. I have been shooting cheap ammo from Walmart ($14-16) but based on the experiences of others at http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/forum.php , Tula ammo has not been tried.
skans
There are a lot of people who are very satisfied with their Jimenez.
The Jennings Story is a fasinating and complicated one. It was basicly Family Fauding and a bogus California Law Suit. The Jimenez and Cobra Arms are still pretty much the same gun as Jennings came out with back in the early 70´s.
ZAMAK is a zink-aluminum-magnisium-kopper alloy developed in 1929 made in various grades, the ZAMAK 3 being the most common. Referred too as Pot Metal or White Metal it is held to a higher industrial standard.
Have yet to dissasemble one but the Youtube films show them to be pretty simple and straight forward.
A lot of guns have plastic safeties or no safeties at all, safety is between the ears not some mekanical devise....so what are you getting at?
Nr.5-6-7 I can not answer as I´v seen no reports of breakage or who is and who is not buying Jimenez.
Lastly you have a Lorcin that goes back Before the Days of Jimenez and it is still working thanks too Jimenez who are not obligated too service it!
Hallo....that kinda tells you the Company must be pretty good to customer who are not even their customers.
There are a lot of people who are very satisfied with their Jimenez.
The Jennings Story is a fasinating and complicated one. It was basicly Family Fauding and a bogus California Law Suit. The Jimenez and Cobra Arms are still pretty much the same gun as Jennings came out with back in the early 70´s.
ZAMAK is a zink-aluminum-magnisium-kopper alloy developed in 1929 made in various grades, the ZAMAK 3 being the most common. Referred too as Pot Metal or White Metal it is held to a higher industrial standard.
Have yet to dissasemble one but the Youtube films show them to be pretty simple and straight forward.
A lot of guns have plastic safeties or no safeties at all, safety is between the ears not some mekanical devise....so what are you getting at?
Nr.5-6-7 I can not answer as I´v seen no reports of breakage or who is and who is not buying Jimenez.
Lastly you have a Lorcin that goes back Before the Days of Jimenez and it is still working thanks too Jimenez who are not obligated too service it!
Hallo....that kinda tells you the Company must be pretty good to customer who are not even their customers.
On the safety issue - this is a really big deal with the J-22's. Remember, these guns are true single action only - not Glock actions. For them to work you need to carry them with a round chambered. The striker will be held back by a sear. If the safety is not on and you drop or even bump the gun hard enough, it will fire. On the J-22, there just isn't that much holding that striker in place and the sear spring isn't as stiff as it should be. The problem with the plastic safeties is that they don't work. Many folks have reported being able to easily fire the pistol with the safety on. They would also break or simply stop working with no notice.
Now, my J-22 has a steel sliding safety. It works, but I was never comfortable carrying the gun with one in the chamber relying on that sliding safety which could easily snag and go to the off position without me knowing.
You can talk all you want about "safety between the ears....", and while that might be good and well for DAO pistols, DA/SA pistols and even Glock-action type pistols it simply doesn't apply to the J-22. My Colt Mustang is SAO and made much better than the J-22, but I would never even consider carrying that in my pocket with one in the chamber and no safety on. That's just a recipe for a very bad day!
The gun was never serviced by Jimenez. It was serviced by Lorcin, years and years ago (It was given to me sometime in the 1990's and as the PO had it serviced, I don't know exactly when this was done). The reason it still works is because since it was serviced, it has only fired less than 10 rounds. It had to be sent back to the factory multiple times for the same problem - broken extractors and weak or broken extractor spring. I don't know anything about Jimenez's (or Lorcin's) customer service and never offered any opinion on that. It might be fantastic, I don't know.
I don't know why you are so defensive about these pistols. I have not "bashed" the J-22, and in fact if you read my posts and many other posts I've made over the years about the J-22, I explain that the one with the steel safeties are not as bad as people make them out to be. Now, the Lorcin .380 - I don't know what to tell you guy - it's had its share of problems; this is not a well made or even decently made gun! The parts are cheap and prone to breakage. Maybe I'll fire a bunch of rounds through it the next time I'm at the range and see how it performs - it's been years since I've shot it.
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skan
I am Old School...."NEVER CHAMBER A ROUND UNTILL YOU INTEND TO DISCHARGE YOUR WEAPON" that means all weapons regardless of the safety systom, say´s so in the hand book several times that follows with the gun, I´v seen this WARNING in many of todays handbooks.
There have been many incidenses of A/D-N/C-U/Ds of Glocks going off.
Just read where the S&W MPs issued to police have U/D while sitting in the holster.
Have you forgoten the Wal Mart incident where a 2 year old found mammas loaded gun in her purse and shot her dead? Another just like it where the kid shot the mom and step dad (guess it was the same bullet.
Go Youtube and search acidental discharge of guns you´ll find a whole slew of them......and they could have all been avoided if people just follow the simple rule NEVER CHAMBER A ROUND UNTILL YOU INTEND TO SHOOT.
I am Old School...."NEVER CHAMBER A ROUND UNTILL YOU INTEND TO DISCHARGE YOUR WEAPON" that means all weapons regardless of the safety systom, say´s so in the hand book several times that follows with the gun, I´v seen this WARNING in many of todays handbooks.
There have been many incidenses of A/D-N/C-U/Ds of Glocks going off.
Just read where the S&W MPs issued to police have U/D while sitting in the holster.
Have you forgoten the Wal Mart incident where a 2 year old found mammas loaded gun in her purse and shot her dead? Another just like it where the kid shot the mom and step dad (guess it was the same bullet.
Go Youtube and search acidental discharge of guns you´ll find a whole slew of them......and they could have all been avoided if people just follow the simple rule NEVER CHAMBER A ROUND UNTILL YOU INTEND TO SHOOT.
That's not even old school. That's just foolish. SAO guns have been made with safeties (good safeties) since before 1911 so that they can be carried with a round chambered. Modern guns are made to be carried with a round chambered. Certainly all DAO and DA/SA are designed to be carried with a round chambered.
You'll get no argument from me about Glock - I'm not a fan of the Glock system, even though I have one. Some people choose to carry without a round chambered in their Glocks. Bad idea - just get a gun you are comfortable carrying with a round chambered. The Ruger LC9 is both DAO and has a manual safety - basically as safe as a revolver that has a manual safety.
Is this your best argument "never chamber a round until you intend to discharge your weapon" to support buying Jimenez pistols? Do you work for Jimenez? I've given you my input based on personal experience. What more do you want? Or do you intend on defending this company no matter what anyone says?
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