Jeff Cooper and the "General Purpose Rifle"

Spectre: When hunting cubs with the Cub Scout BOLO for mamma bear :D
Let me know if you want some stripper clips for your Cub Scout...I have a bunch. Perhaps I could "rent" your standard Marlin for awhile to see if I really like them?

Keith: The Blaser doesn't use a rotating bolt. IIRC it has bearings or some such that pop out of the bolt a bit to provide 360 degree lock up with a matching ring in the receiver [or whatever it is called on the Blaser...they are just strange for rifles IMHO]. Should get Rich or someone to post pics.
 
Perhaps we could do somesuch, lad. Perhaps.

Will the stripper clips work with 6mm Rem? (I don't remember if the case head is the same size as the 6.5x55MM.)
 
No one reallt knows what the rimsize of the 6.5x55 is supposed to be but it is close enough to the 7x57 Mauser family (ie 308, '06, 6mm, etc) to work. I have loaded them with 308's and used them with no problem.
 
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Beyond handling them at gun shows, I have never used a rifle with a scout scope. I hope to shoot one some day but until then a rifle with a conventional low power scope is general purpose to me.
With that in mind, if you like the Steyr brand, they sell a bolt gun that is very similar to scout, same magazine, same "safe" bolt, it just has a conventional scope mount. Kimber also sells a top quality short action bolt that would make your weight and accuracy standards easily, but it has a wooden stock. (A very nice stock at that, it would be my choice) As mentioned already Rem / Ruger / Win all make good guns with prices low enough to let you afford an excellent scope and some trigger work.
FWIW, having to decide which rifle to buy for less than $1000 is a good kind of problem to have.
 
I haven't heard any mention of the Farnam designed urban rifle - what appears to be a short "tanker" style M1 Garand, in either 30.06 (or .308 ?) with a fixed, low-power, LER scope forward (scout style) mounted. This looks like it could be a good performer, and has many attributes. Does anyone have any experience with these, or feedback? It sounds like a nice concept.
EricO
 
Agree with Art about the battle rifle not being the best for a GP rifle. Also with his assessment of the .243. And I like Glamdring's comment on the Remington Model 7. My GP rifle is a Model 7 in .308 with a Leupold 2-7x VX-II compact. Recently dropped it into an HS Precision stock. Great gun, plenty accurate, and makes weight.

Interestingly, I've found that a short stock is a "good thing" on a GP. If starting over on a budget, I'd seriously consider the Model 7 Youth in .243.
 
The biggest problem with the General Purpose (GP) rifle concept is just that there's not a huge need these days for a GP rifle.

If I was setting out across Africa on a survey expedition, I'd definitely pack a Scout-type rifle. A short, light, handy rifle able to either take mid-range game or defend against unfriendlies (within reason, of course. If attacked by well armed platoon-size element, you're probably screwed anyway) is just the ticket.

But how many of us are heading across Africa with a need to have a do-it-all rifle? Most of us need a deer rifle, something for larger game, an urban warfare rifle ("just in case") and a couple of plinkers that shoot cheap ammo. A Scout will do all that of course, but won't do any one thing extraordinarily well. A better option is about 3 or 4 rifles (a 7mm-08, a .338 Win Mag, an SKS or 10/22 and an AR, for instance) and cover your bases that way.


That said, if I had the $$$, I'd get a nice Scout in a heartbeat. My M-99 in .308 is pretty good consolation though ;)
 
I just have to jump in here. The good Col. not only suffers from hardening of the attitude, but can be exceedly rude as well. I state that from personal experience. My wife, who never, well almost never, swears said what an *#&^%$!(! (rectal oriface)
Anyway, my idea of what would constitute a scout rifle is based on Cooper's original ideas, way back when. he was even considering it as a military option as well as a sporting general purpose rifle.
Currently, I have a Steyr 1912 Mauser, chambered to .308 Win., 19 inch barrel that scoped, slung and loaded weighs exactly 5.0 pounds.
So weight, even in a large ring Mauser can be brought to within the limits.
I have another Steyr 1912 Mauser action laying around that I'm considering making into a scout rifle. It would load with stripper clips, just as the military version would. Ashley sights front and rear, 2X EER scope, military trigger left as is, with just slight stoning to smooth out any rough spots, The strongest synthetic stock I can find, Ching sling, and trajectory table glued and waterproofed to the stock. Buttplate would be steel. Bolt handle wouls stick out straight as is found on the action.
So why the Mauser action? Because, I think that a GP rifle should be as close to 100 percent reliable and it possibly can be. The 98 Mauser is/was designed for the worst conditions possible. War.
Accuracy standard would be reasonable. 1.5 inches at 100 yards or better with 150 gr. ammo. Remember, this is a GP rifle, not a varmint gun.
The Stery scout may do everything the good Col. says it does, and the one I held felt great, pointed well, and as far as I know, it may well have been a tackdriver. But, to me, it was just plain butt ugly. I doubt if my idea of a GP would look much better, but I'll bet it'll be a lot stronger.
We all have an idea of what would make a good GP rifle. This was just my .02.
Paul B.
 
GP practicality

Payette Jack- I'm humbly inclined to disagree with you about the modern day usage of a scout rifle. I carry my previously mentioned M77 just about every day when I'm not away at college. It can be used to dispatch of groundhogs around the property in the summer. In the early winter its a deer rifle. And in the spring its a hog gun once again. The modern day equivalent of the GP rifle is the fabled "truck gun". Just ask any rancher about his truck gun and he'll tell you just how frequently he uses it. I do agree that 3-4 guns is better though!!! It doesn't hurt to have specialized firearms but the "GP" or "truck gun" does have a place in today's world IMHO.

P.S Why ever did Savage quit making the beautiful Model 99!? :confused:
 
Hi. Keith R.

The BLR you mention - is a pump, correct? Sounds like a very good idea. However, doesn't the Savage Scout also fit the ideal to a "T"? For about $500. Seems to me that if'n you're on a budget, the Savage in 7-08 or 308, with a trigger job, would be the perfect, non-combat, all purpose rifle, in addition to possibly the BLR and Steyr. I'd take the Sav in 7.08 myself
 
Futo Inu,
Nah, BLR is lever action. IMHO ugly as sin, but one of my buddies has one and it is just a sweet shooting rig.
 
ronin308,

The M-99 was too expensive to produce. If you've got a good one, keep it. Oddly enough, you won't find any reference to the M-99 on the products section of the Savage website, but they do refer to it in the history section as being current production.

I didn't mean to infer that the GP concept was totally invalid. MOST people don't have much use for one, you do. But how many of us live on a ranch anymore?

When the average Joe walks out his front door with a rifle, he generally knows exactly where he's going and what he'll be shooting. And weight is rarely a consideration. If it's Moose, he takes one rifle, if its squirrel, he'll take another. Not many people head out the door thinking "I wonder what I'm going to shoot today?"

BTW, the old lever action 30-30 was the first GP rifle and it still does pretty well for a lot less $$$ than the super-duper spy gun with the folding bipod and corkscrew wine bottle opener in the buttstock and God knows what else.

IMHO, the BLR is a step down from the M-99.
 
Payette Jack said:

When the average Joe walks out his front door with a rifle, he generally knows exactly where he's going and what he'll be shooting. And weight is rarely a consideration. If it's Moose, he takes one rifle, if its squirrel, he'll take another. Not many people head out the door thinking "I wonder what I'm going to shoot today?"
Click to expand...

I suppose you are correct here. The good majority of people have a specific purpose in mind when they head out with a rifle. As for the Savage 99 I don't have one but I've been keeping my eyes peeled for a good used one in .308. As for the 30/30 I couldn't agree more. And I'll also have to agree that a GP rifle shouldn't have all the needless stuff on it "corkscrew wine bottle opener in the buttstock" lol :D You can outfit a Marlin 336 "scout" for:

Marlin 336- $330
AO scout mount- $50
AO apeture set- $90
Leupold IER scout matte- $220
GRAND TOTAL- $690

And here you have a great GP rifle that is rock solid reliable and accurate at most practical ranges.
 
My idea of a practical rifle is a Mauser carbine in .308

I have a FN military action from Springfield Sporters currently being reworked for this purpose. The action will be as close to military specs as possible... OK, maybe a one stage trigger will be swapped and the bolt bent. It will wear a 20" barrel with steel iron sights (not aluminum)-- possibly a custom front made with a NM M14 blade with ears and Warne peep base if I can find one.

The irons will be primary. Even Cooper recommends you bring an extra scope to change when your's fails. Sure, you can send it back to Leupold- but not while your in the field... With that being said, I'm trying to set it up so I can mount standard scopes, scout scopes, or maybe the Reflex II without changing bases. The scope is a decided advantage and all my rifles wear one but, it can go wrong.

I don't buy the stringent weight demands for the practical rifle. I go for balance when your holding the rifle-- I like it to swing right up and stop in my shoulder pocket. Either the Neidner butt plate or a thin hard rubber pad will be fitted. The stock will be a laminate (Zero? Richards Microfit?) streamlined a bit and sealed inside and out. Naturally, I don't want to carry around a 10 lb. carbine (that's for the Army) but I won't be feverishly weighing it and drilling out the magazine box...

This rifle will be boring. Fairly accurate and dead reliable. No gadgets, bells or whistles. All steel components- no fragile parts. Nothing that needs constant tweeking...
 
De Bee. Check out my comments on what I thought a Scout Rifle should be. We're pretty close in out thoughts.
If you can find a copy of the 38th ed. 1984 Gun Digest, Jeff Cooper has an article on what he feels the Scout rifle should be. While he discusses it as a "general purpose" rifle, he also gives the impression that it might serve as a battle (?) weapon for a forward observer type. (Scout????)
If a SHTF situation should come about, anyone who is foolish enough to stand and fight a mob/enemy soldiers with his AR-15, M1A, whatever had best let it be known what kind of flowers he like best. It just ain't gonna happen. Only Arnold and slyvester can do that, and that's because the script says so. No, if all goes to hell, you may fire one shot to slow them down and then run like hell. It's called survival.
In the meantime, using it for most of your shooting needs will give you a feel for it's capabilities and you gain much needed proficiency in it's use. Because, if and when the Vigaro hits the Mixmaster, that's the rifle you will grab. Count on it.
Paul B.
 
If we really want to stir things up, why not a Mini-14 as a general purpose rifle. It is relatively accurate (according to the quote by Townsend Whelan that only accurate rifles are interesting--accurate in his day was 3 MOA), lightweight, very reliable and not a "black gun." Other than hunting elk and bear I think it would suffice. It is very popular in the far North. The caliber is its major shortcoming but is still usable in most jurisdictions as a deer rifle (with the right bullet and relatively close range).
 
Paul B. - Your comments are right on as usual regarding the Mauser rifle and it's various iterations... Good points.

Anyone with a bolt gun facing the fictitious enemy will be running away- which is why you want a handy carbine...

Should we lay down our own guidelines as to what a practical rifle is and is not/can and cannot do?

For example, I like .308 because it is military and an opportunity to scrounge ammo might be had (like an ammo box full). Surplus is abundant- even good surplus. It's a good medium caliber and an all around performer on edible game...

I prefer the Mauser action because it is functionally simple and robust. Control round feeding for those times you might not be standing in your den. Easy to field strip. Spare parts, if needed are abundant...

I can use iron peep sights because the target is likely to be large i.e. a deer, boar, car, terrorist and ranges moderate-- scope for more precision work will be an option for me...

I wouldn't want a detachable magazine on the chance it could be lost or damaged. I don't think any of Cooper's early scout rifles had a detachable mag until the Steyr Scout... However, if I could get a few more rounds into a Mauser, I'd definitely go for it...

The weight thing. A pound more or less isn't going to wipe me out is it? Troops have humped heavier guns and packs too. You should be able to run away fast with a practical rifle...

Other thoughts?
 
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