Jane Fonda: "U.S. Troops are Killing Machines."

progunner1957

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Jane Fonda: U.S. Troops Are 'Killing Machines'

"Hanoi Jane" Fonda is claiming that ever since Vietnam, U.S. troops have been trained to commit atrocities against innocent civilians as a matter of military policy.

"Starting with the Vietnam War we began training soldiers differently," the anti-American actress says in an email to the Washington Post.

Fonda claims she learned of the policy switch in "secret meetings" she had with military psychologists "who were really worried about what was happening to our combat personnel."

One doctor, she insists, told her U.S. troops had been deliberately trained to be "killing machines."

"This began," Fonda maintained, "because the military discovered that in World War II and Korea, [U.S.] soldiers weren't killing enough."

"So they changed training procedures" to teach troops how to commit atrocities.

Still, the anti-war gadfly cautions, it's important not to blame the soldiers themselves for carrying out war crimes.

Recalling the "Winter Soldier" hearings that she and John Kerry staged in 1971, Fonda lamented: "When you put young people into an atrocity-producing situation where enemy and civilian are commingled, where the 'other side' is dehumanized, we cannot be surprised."

Anti-war vets now returning from Iraq, Fonda cautioned, should be listened to instead of being dismissed as "unpatriotic."

"We have not learned the lessons of Vietnam," she declared.
 
Can you provide a source (and date) for this story?

I'm almost surprised this would be run at all in any newspaper with reference to "secret meetings" with military "psychologists". Surrrre. I'm in the military and concerned about how they're training troops. So if I disclose this alleged change of policy the most credible person I could tell would be.... Fonda? Get real.
 
One doctor, she insists, told her U.S. troops had been deliberately trained to be "killing machines."

Thats a soldiers job. A Military is trained to fight a War, that involves killing.
 
Hanoi Jane's just desperately trying to arrest her richly deserved slide into obscurity.
+1. This new fabrication is just another publicity stunt.

Yes, I said fabrication. How likely is it that an avowed anti-America actress has gained secret information into the dirty laundry of the American military? This whole story is ridiculous.
 
She must not have caught the Pace-Rummy show the other day....

where GEN Pace had to remind Rummy that US Soldiers will not only report atrocities/misbehavior but will apply necessary force to make the perpetrators cease and desist.
 
Surrrre. I'm in the military and concerned about how they're training troops. So if I disclose this alleged change of policy the most credible person I could tell would be.... Fonda? Get real.
Exactly! Enough said
 
Hanoi Jane's just desperately trying to arrest her richly deserved slide into obscurity.


+2

A mediocre actrress that was kind of hot 40 years ago is now just a raggy old mediocre actress...the big mouth keeps her in the limelight

WildlaryngitisAlaska
 
As much as I hate Jane Fonda, to be fair we have changed our training to make it easier and a reflexive action to kill. Also only 20 percent of our soldiers would fire on an enemy during WW2. By Vietnam it had gone up to over 90 percent.

I recommend "On Killing" by Dave Grossman.
 
...only 20 percent of our soldiers would fire on an enemy during WW2
I've never read such a thing before. Not doubting you, but could you please cite your source for that. It would be interesting reading to me.

Thanks! :)

-Dave
 
"Also only 20 percent of our soldiers would fire on an enemy during WW2."

Are you saying they would just sit there and be killed before firing at the enemy? If so, I have never heard of that before. This sounds like it could be a misquoted statistic derived from the fact that not everyone in the army is trained for combat.

Tim
 
TimRB:

My guess is that you are correct, although even then all soldiers received at least rudimentary skills in basic training. Basically, the thought was that cooks, clerks, truck drivers, mechanics, etc. weren't expected to fight. And yet, they were still issued arms if they were in-theater, and were still expected to at least defend themselves if attacked.

I also think that Hanoi Jane is in fact paying our armed forces a complement on their increased training and operational readiness, albeit unwittingly. Yes, her intent is to insult, but in fact her words attest to the readiness of our troops -- all of our troops in-theater -- to be able to acquit themselves acceptably well in battle.

corrected spelling error
 
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CobrayCommando said:
I recommend "On Killing" by Dave Grossman.


It was an interesting read...

I also remember he wrote that for every confirmed enemy KIA in Vietnam, the US forces fired just over 50,000 rounds of small arms ammo...

I wonder how he came up with that?


.
 
Are you saying they would just sit there and be killed before firing at the enemy?
No, what Col. Grossman claimed was that the troops in general had a disinclination to take the life of another human, and a lot would either intentionally miss, or pretend they were firing. I don't have the book in front of me, but I should be able to get it by tonight, and if nobody else has done it first, give a more in depth explenation. In any case, its a good book worth reading.

And IIRC, he was pretty good about citing sources.
 
"the US forces fired just over 50,000 rounds of small arms ammo..."

I've seen estimates like those before, and they are normally attributed to the military themselves.
 
What's funny about this is that she's taking something that is essentially true, that soldiers' training did change after WWII because something over 60% of soldiers did not fire their weapons in a combat situation and were being killed, and contorting it to suit her political agenda/sell books.

Dave Grossman talked a lot about this in the video series I watched at the academy. It's very interesting. But they did change the psychological training so that our guys were more able to kill the enemy. (killing the enemy in war is not a war crime, jane). One quick example of things they changed: targets for firearms training used to be bullseye targets. They were changed to silhouette targets to more closely simulate the sight picture the soldier would see in actual battle. It was a change to affect their psychological actions during combat.
 
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