Conn. Trooper
New member
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My point is the officer shouldn't have been there in the first place. Had no reason to stop and fish. Had the officer had a reason to stop the man, not under the guise of a social contact, a real RS reason he could have Terryed his little hands away, without asking for consent.
IMO. The court is saying that absent RS or PC, you can't stop someone using the "social contact" as bait for you fishing trip.
Yup, spot on.
No, not exactly. Cops can talk to anyone, people are also free, barring a reason for lawful detention, to walk away. This guy didn't.
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Cops don't need a reason to talk to someone. They can approach and talk to anyone
OK, Given that is true then; If you approach me at 2300 on a sidewalk and I do not wish to have a "social interaction" are you simply going to let me walk away? Yes. Thats what I have been saying all along.
If so, then why the "interaction" if not, then why does it not qualify as a fishing expedition ? I am either free to leave, or not. Without some RS, or PC, then your gun and badge are useless, and I can tell you to go pound sand, correct? Already explained, look at my post to hogdogs regarding the multiple reasons to contact somebody on the street. There are many, many reasons a cop would stop and talk to you on the street. No, you are not compelled to reply, unless you are required to by state or local laws, and the cops would have no basis to detain or arrest unless there was some other reason for it. Fishing expeditions have solved many crimes and taken lots of bad guys and contraband off the street.
If not then please elaborate.
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Consent does need to be given freely, but there was plenty for a Terry Stop after the bs story and touching of the bulge
OK, lets suppose that you asked me where I was going/coming from, and I told you that I did not think that was any concern of yours? what then ?
Need any police assistance? Car broke down, need directions? No? Ok then. Have a good night citizen!
Again, please elaborate.
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If you are walking down the street at 11 p.m., give a bs story and continually touch an object in your pocket ( which is a known mannerism of someone concealing contraband), then yes I would tell you to take your hands out of your pockets and there is not a court in the land that would fault me.
Um, there is at least one court that would. The point you don't seem to grasp is that unless you have RS or PC to legally detain me, I can tell you "I am going to grandmas house with a basket of goodies", or "to the moon" for that matter, as it is none of your business at that point. That pesky constitution is a pain isn't it ?
The sarcasm makes you look childish. I would like to see where I said I would detain you for walking down the street. Or not answering questions. Thats the point you can not seem to grasp. I have said many times that if the person said nothing, or gave a credible story, the interaction would have ended there. This guy gave a bs story and continually touched the item concealed on his person. After that, and given that set of circumctances, I would do a Terry Stop. Not for just walking down a street or not answering questions. The court found no issues except for the second officer being there. Not the initial encounter, the frisk, or anything else. Plus, this case only applies to Washington State, not the rest of the world.
If you are in a neighborhood where people are not normally walking at 11 at night, give a bs story and continually touch an item concealed on your person, I have all the reason in the world for a Terry Stop and a frisk for weapons for my safety.And if you think that the police everywhere and Washington State in particular are not concerned for their safety, you are a fool.
My point is the officer shouldn't have been there in the first place. Had no reason to stop and fish. Had the officer had a reason to stop the man, not under the guise of a social contact, a real RS reason he could have Terryed his little hands away, without asking for consent.
IMO. The court is saying that absent RS or PC, you can't stop someone using the "social contact" as bait for you fishing trip.
Yup, spot on.
No, not exactly. Cops can talk to anyone, people are also free, barring a reason for lawful detention, to walk away. This guy didn't.
Quote:
Cops don't need a reason to talk to someone. They can approach and talk to anyone
OK, Given that is true then; If you approach me at 2300 on a sidewalk and I do not wish to have a "social interaction" are you simply going to let me walk away? Yes. Thats what I have been saying all along.
If so, then why the "interaction" if not, then why does it not qualify as a fishing expedition ? I am either free to leave, or not. Without some RS, or PC, then your gun and badge are useless, and I can tell you to go pound sand, correct? Already explained, look at my post to hogdogs regarding the multiple reasons to contact somebody on the street. There are many, many reasons a cop would stop and talk to you on the street. No, you are not compelled to reply, unless you are required to by state or local laws, and the cops would have no basis to detain or arrest unless there was some other reason for it. Fishing expeditions have solved many crimes and taken lots of bad guys and contraband off the street.
If not then please elaborate.
Quote:
Consent does need to be given freely, but there was plenty for a Terry Stop after the bs story and touching of the bulge
OK, lets suppose that you asked me where I was going/coming from, and I told you that I did not think that was any concern of yours? what then ?
Need any police assistance? Car broke down, need directions? No? Ok then. Have a good night citizen!
Again, please elaborate.
Quote:
If you are walking down the street at 11 p.m., give a bs story and continually touch an object in your pocket ( which is a known mannerism of someone concealing contraband), then yes I would tell you to take your hands out of your pockets and there is not a court in the land that would fault me.
Um, there is at least one court that would. The point you don't seem to grasp is that unless you have RS or PC to legally detain me, I can tell you "I am going to grandmas house with a basket of goodies", or "to the moon" for that matter, as it is none of your business at that point. That pesky constitution is a pain isn't it ?
The sarcasm makes you look childish. I would like to see where I said I would detain you for walking down the street. Or not answering questions. Thats the point you can not seem to grasp. I have said many times that if the person said nothing, or gave a credible story, the interaction would have ended there. This guy gave a bs story and continually touched the item concealed on his person. After that, and given that set of circumctances, I would do a Terry Stop. Not for just walking down a street or not answering questions. The court found no issues except for the second officer being there. Not the initial encounter, the frisk, or anything else. Plus, this case only applies to Washington State, not the rest of the world.
If you are in a neighborhood where people are not normally walking at 11 at night, give a bs story and continually touch an item concealed on your person, I have all the reason in the world for a Terry Stop and a frisk for weapons for my safety.And if you think that the police everywhere and Washington State in particular are not concerned for their safety, you are a fool.
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