J-frame: Enough?

Is a S&W .38 Special Snub Nose enough for concealed carry?

  • Yes

    Votes: 131 91.0%

  • No

    Votes: 13 9.0%
  • Total voters
    144
  • Poll closed .
"What happens when the situation you find yourself in is on the opposite side of the bell curve from the one you expected?"

Well in all honesty Nanuk, if I'm not outmanned and outgunned, it ain't a fair fight for the poor bastard(s).

And yes, unfortunately I have had the occasion (as with the .22 lr and .22 magnum) to see what a .38 out of a short barrel revolver can do to a human head. Best I could tell, it killed the individual lickity split.

I do respect your preference to go reasonably well healed though. Good luck with that.
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It is not about being a fair fight, and yes, shot placement counts.
 
I just dont understand the reasons for carrying a limited capacity, slow to reload, hard to shoot gun with crappy sights when other options are available.

Back in the ‘60s.... i get it
Today...nope

Just to put a face on it, a Glock 26 has TWICE the ammo on board, a much faster reload, is easier to shoot well, has good sights and is the same size, so conceals easily.
 
For most people a Glock 19 sized pistol and an extra magazine loaded with premium HP's is a pretty solid choice.
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That or a similar semi is pretty standard among folks. The Js are bugs or accepted as guns we carry for convenience and accept the risk that we are suboptimal for more intensive but rarer instances.

Again, I will ask - how many do the J frame is enough folks practice and train with it.

I can conceal a 19 and a mag must fine, even in TX heat. I hang out with 8 guys at lunch in hot weather, all with similar rigs and you wouldn't know it.
 
I've asked if the 5 is enough crowd have practiced enough with each in competitions or classes to make that analysis. Hear the crickets?

I've done that. I can shoot both guns well. I shoot the semis better. The J is carried when circumstances dictate and I acknowledge the risks and limitations.
 
The Js are bugs or accepted as guns we carry for convenience and accept the risk that we are suboptimal for more intensive but rarer instances.

Again, I will ask - how many do the J frame is enough folks practice and train with it.
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I suspect that few folks practice or train with any handgun, let alone the J frames.

Taking a class with a J frame or shooting in one a competition is a great way to show the limitations of the small revolvers. There is a world of difference for me between shooting a simple dot torture drill with a G26 or a S&W 642 and I think the difference would get more pronounced shooting a POST qualification or other drill on the clock.
 
That is the truth. Most folks in the 5 camp, assume one opponent whom is stopped with the 5. Throw in movement and more than one, and your times to keep in the fight certainly increase. Now folks will say that Jerry will ... However, most of us aren't Jerry.

I once came in second in an IDPA match shooting a revolver after a national champion who was at Jerry's level. However, there were only two revolver shooters. Another way to look at it was that I came in last. Haha.
 
So, how much is "enough?" You can make an argument that most subcompacts capable of being pocket-carried won't hold enough rounds. That's why I said five is "enough" if that means you'll carry it, rather than leaving it at home. We all Almost all of us compromise to some degree.

Today is a typical day for me. Drove to work, walked 20 yards and entered through two secured doors and into an office where several cops work. I'll return home and walk 20 feet to my door. Today, I happen to have a SW Shield but, at other times, it might be a J-frame.

Can something really terrible happen? You bet. I was just reminded of that through a presentation by the DA who prosecuted "The Joker" murderer in Aurora, Colorado. The bad guy was covered head to foot with body armor. Most pistol rounds would have been ineffective on him. Yet, I don't see many people carrying rifles around to anticipate this sort of attacker. Why? In part, its because of the "inconvenience" in doing so. In the end, it's about compromises.

Edited: Never say never, all or always. :)
 
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The Js are bugs or accepted as guns we carry for convenience and accept the risk that we are suboptimal for more intensive but rarer instances.
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Anytime forced to use a gun for self defense I want the bestest with the mostest. I do not carry for convenience, though many do.
 
Why carry the 640 at all if you can carry the G19 or G32 just as easy? Do you shoot the 640 better than a G19/G32?
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I have stated several times here, the G32/19/23 is too small for my hands. And yes, I shoot the J frame better, though my reloads are not quite as fast.
 
I suspect that few folks practice or train with any handgun, let alone the J frames.

Taking a class with a J frame or shooting in one a competition is a great way to show the limitations of the small revolvers. There is a world of difference for me between shooting a simple dot torture drill with a G26 or a S&W 642 and I think the difference would get more pronounced shooting a POST qualification or other drill on the clock.
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I shoot mine in IDPA. That is a workout.
 
That is the truth. Most folks in the 5 camp, assume one opponent whom is stopped with the 5. Throw in movement and more than one, and your times to keep in the fight certainly increase. Now folks will say that Jerry will ... However, most of us aren't Jerry.

I once came in second in an IDPA match shooting a revolver after a national champion who was at Jerry's level. However, there were only two revolver shooters. Another way to look at it was that I came in last. Haha.
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Ain't that the truth.
 
something to consider. When I discuss this sort of thing in person, generally those people have already got a plan. having a plan that I see as flawed doesn't bother them at all. It's their plan. In many or most of those cases, well, their plan is in fact flawed in one way or another. In many or most of those occasions, the people themselves and their capabilities and thought processes are also flawed. I'f a guy has a micro derringer stuck on his belt as his CC weapon, seriously, there isn't any sense in trying to convince him to get a compact nine. It probably won't make any difference because he's also probably an unschooled dimwit who couldn't do any better with a different gun. He's going to screw up, no matter what he carries.

Careful consideration isn't the norm when it comes to people and how they live their lives.

So why do I speak up in threads like this? Sometimes people listen, and sometimes it gives others a viewpoint to work with. If nobody said "yeah, J frame all the way" there will be a lot less discussion comparing the two.

Well, that's one reason, the other is that I'm kinda dumb that way. I believe that taking on the sysyphean task of passing on information is worth the effort.
 
"It is not about being a fair fight, and yes, shot placement counts."

Nanuk, my "if I'm not outmanned and outgunned, it ain't a fair fight for the poor bastard(s)" comment was just me talkin Marine humor I suppose.

I understand you were US Army. My apologies for not being more culturally sensitive.

And yes, it surely will be a cold day in hell if I gave an individual seeking my immediate death an "even fight" or opportunities even for "dumb luck" for that matter.

So, yes, it is not about being a fair fight and shot placement counts. It also can tend to get a little more complicated than that.

You also stated "Anytime forced to use a gun for self defense I want the bestest with the mostest. I do not carry for convenience, though many do."

I'm left wondering what other scenarios you might conceive that would necessitate more discreet carry?

I know I can think of many. By the way, I'm also a retired city police officer. If I understand correctly, you are too?
 
Model12Win said:
Have thought about carrying my Smith & Wesson 642 .38 Special 5-shot snub-nose revolver as my primary carry gun in a pocket holster.

How many of you think that setup would be enough for realistic self defense, or should I get a bigger gun with more capacity or a different caliber?

Thanks!

-M12
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I voted "yes," as I originally took the question on an empirical level, and from my POV.

Considering that most defensive shooting situations are resolved with about 3 rounds fired, and the fact that I live and spend most of my time in low threat areas and that I spend a decent amount of time training with my snubbie and can draw and fire and hit x3 a pair of three-inch squares at 7 yards in under 5 seconds consistently.

But I don't know what you're situation is. I don't know how competent you are with your snubbie and so on.

If I were advising someone that spends the bare minimum training with any gun (not saying you fit that bill either, just taking an example for sake of argument), I'd probably change my answer to "no," and advise them to get and train with something easier to be accurate and consistent with. Just my two cents.
 
Considering that most defensive shooting situations are resolved with about 3 rounds fired
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That is an oft cited number, but i wonder the source and method of determining it

Im guessing its an average of some data. Here’s the problem with averages.

My first shooting...1 round fired
My second shooting 11 rounds fired

Avg= 6 shots...so a 8round 1911 should be fine. The problem is i would have been at slide lock during the second shooting.

I dont want to handicap myself by carrying a gun without sufficient ammo on board to handle the problem. To do so, is betting that nothing bad will happen and the gun becomes just a talisman to ward off evil sprits.

I want the ability to fight aggressively and WIN. Not worry about not shooting mtpl times because i have an ammo deficiency.
 
I am going to continue to carry my J frame concealed during warm weather despite its limitations. Yes, it has low ammunition capacity and it is more difficult for me to shoot well than a larger semi-auto.

For me, an Airweight or Airlight is far easier to carry than my semi autos and offers great corrosion resistance. Is it ideal? Nope, but it is what I can manage in the hot weather and still do my job as a grease monkey.

I do practice with the J frames and run various drills but no matter how many hours I put into the J frames, I will never be as proficient with them as I will with a G26. No matter how much I practice, the ammunition capacity of my J frames isn't going to increase.

On the plus side, I think practice with a J frame makes me better with other handguns. .38 Special ammunition is easy to reload. The biggest plus a is J frame is certainly better than nothing, which is what I would have on me in the summer while climbing up into the engine compartment if an F-150 to pull the intake or sliding under the dash of a Honda to fix a blend door problem, If I didn't have the J frame.
 
I've carried an Airweight Centennial for years, often with only the 5 rounds in the cylinder -- no reloads.

I'm still here, and I really don't care what other people think about what I carry.

I also frequently carry a Taurus .22 instead of the J frame.
 
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